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  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Really depends on the game. Gunz: The duel would have been a hot garbage game if not for the animation canceling. The entire combat ended up revolving around it and made the game deep and competitive in a way it never would have been without it.

    Alternatively you have something like mortal shell where they don't literally have animation canceling but they have the hardening mechanic which effectively allows you to pause whatever animation you're currently in which could be viewed as a sort of"cancelling" it for some time in order to become invulnerable.

    And then you have something like monster hunter where the entire flow of combat is dictated around you being locked into each animation and each attack being a decision you make with weight to it.

    All this to say both can work, it just depends on how the game is designed.
    New World is about slower combat, and most of the animation locks are due to using a certain skill which would be impossible to cancel midway through anyway, New World combat works pretty good and im sure it will slowly be evolved over time with more weapon options and they may even add more to it.

    If its a physical attack then you should be locked into it, most of the spells are pretty much instant in the game so it doesnt effect them much either.

    Quote Originally Posted by emotivex View Post
    Limited skills in New World, yes.

    But you actually use all 6 skills. You also use your block/dodge, as well as your light/heavy attack. So 10 skills total.
    There is actually 3 weapon slots so you will have access to 9 different skills, 3 different weapons.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    In real life if you start an action you have to follow through with it, swinging a large hammer for example there is no way to cancel that,
    This is inaccurate in literally every way, especially when it comes to combat. One of the core tenets of any kind of combat training is adjusting your actions to your situation CONSTANTLY. There's no such situation where if I choose to throw a punch that I can't just cancel that thought and throw a kick instead or rush in and grab them or just...not throw the punch.

    Swinging weapons is similar, though not identical because of weight for those that have enough weight to affect that. You change trajectory, adjust the angle, stop the swing and turn an overhead attack into a thrust or a spinning attack.

    animation canceling is the worst and clunkiest type of combat and games are not actually designed on the premise of constantly cancelling attacks.
    Games that are literally built around combat have animation cancelling as part of them in MANY cases, specifically fighting games.

    If you fake an attack you still have to complete it you cant just cancel any motion in real life.
    Again, completely inaccurate in every way. No..that's why they call it a "fake" the entire purpose is to make it LOOK like you're doig that attack and then change to something else, literally "animation cancelling" yourself so the opponent reacts to the fake.

    In combat you make a decision and should have to deal with any consequences if you made the wrong one,
    I don't disagree here, in principal when it comes to games. But when there are situations where missing, misjudging, or slightly mistiming your attack ends with you being stuck in a ~3 second animation where the enemy can kill you. In watching videos of people actively fighting in PvP they look for people with the big 2H weapons and just wait for them to swing so they can dodge quickly and then dive in and take off 50% or more of their health, with most of them dying after a single miss due to how much damage can be done in the time frame their locked into their missed animation.

    most if not all abilities in NW are instantly activated so once you use it there is no going back, if you miss the target then you deserve to take some extra dmg.
    Again, see above. i don't disagree, but the level of punishment here due to just how long some of those animations are is ridiculous. Animation cancelling would solve that, as well as make all types of combat feel better.

    I honestly have no idea how or why you think animation cancelling, something that allows you to cancel attacks, move more freely, and creates more fluid combat situations causes it to be clunky.

    The combat in NW is not clunky at all currently, it works pretty well.
    The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. It's works pretty well despite its clunkiness, but it IS clunky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    I suggest for once in your life try an actual sword fighting course. And not your weeb "Omg bleach katana woop"shit, but actual medieval based weaponry.

    Once you commit to an attack, you can't really stop it. It's called momentum, weight and energy. Don't like it? Change the laws of physics. The way it should work is how it works in this game. Not how it works in your weird weeb shit.
    Outright stop? No. Change direction, adjust your grip to deflect instead of attack, commit to a dodge rather than finishing the attack, letting the momentum carry you somewhere else instead of actually finishing the attack. You're never locked into precisely what you started out as, that's why people train in combat so they can adjust to the changing situation.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    This is inaccurate in literally every way, especially when it comes to combat. One of the core tenets of any kind of combat training is adjusting your actions to your situation CONSTANTLY. There's no such situation where if I choose to throw a punch that I can't just cancel that thought and throw a kick instead or rush in and grab them or just...not throw the punch.

    Swinging weapons is similar, though not identical because of weight for those that have enough weight to affect that. You change trajectory, adjust the angle, stop the swing and turn an overhead attack into a thrust or a spinning attack.



    Games that are literally built around combat have animation cancelling as part of them in MANY cases, specifically fighting games.



    Again, completely inaccurate in every way. No..that's why they call it a "fake" the entire purpose is to make it LOOK like you're doig that attack and then change to something else, literally "animation cancelling" yourself so the opponent reacts to the fake.



    I don't disagree here, in principal when it comes to games. But when there are situations where missing, misjudging, or slightly mistiming your attack ends with you being stuck in a ~3 second animation where the enemy can kill you. In watching videos of people actively fighting in PvP they look for people with the big 2H weapons and just wait for them to swing so they can dodge quickly and then dive in and take off 50% or more of their health, with most of them dying after a single miss due to how much damage can be done in the time frame their locked into their missed animation.



    Again, see above. i don't disagree, but the level of punishment here due to just how long some of those animations are is ridiculous. Animation cancelling would solve that, as well as make all types of combat feel better.

    I honestly have no idea how or why you think animation cancelling, something that allows you to cancel attacks, move more freely, and creates more fluid combat situations causes it to be clunky.



    The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. It's works pretty well despite its clunkiness, but it IS clunky.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Outright stop? No. Change direction, adjust your grip to deflect instead of attack, commit to a dodge rather than finishing the attack, letting the momentum carry you somewhere else instead of actually finishing the attack. You're never locked into precisely what you started out as, that's why people train in combat so they can adjust to the changing situation.
    Sure. I'd like you to swing a huge warhammer and just casually stop a slam to do something else.. Maybe we can print a pic in the "I can ignore laws of physics & 500 other fairy tales I tell myself"

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    New World is about slower combat, and most of the animation locks are due to using a certain skill which would be impossible to cancel midway through anyway, New World combat works pretty good and im sure it will slowly be evolved over time with more weapon options and they may even add more to it.

    If its a physical attack then you should be locked into it, most of the spells are pretty much instant in the game so it doesnt effect them much either.
    Again it all depends on the way the games designed and how they want it to flow. Mortal shell definitely has slower combat, but still has the hardening mechanic creating a sort of "cancel" mid animation despite the animations often being quite long.

    Whole point being I disagree with your assertion that "animation canceling is not good to have in a game". It can be, just depends on how a developer wants to design their combat.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  5. #905
    It also doesn't matter if you can't cancel some attacks. The combat style is not situated to be a fast-paced action game. There are certain mechanics and weapons that do have canceling and unblockable hits, etc.

    You don't fight monsters like it's Ninja Gaiden or DMC. Not that style of combat.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    I'd like you to swing a huge warhammer
    I can ignore laws of physics & 500 other fairy tales I tell myself"
    Hmm

    10chars
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  7. #907
    One thing I can conclude from watching streamers play the game, is that they went with an art style/shadowing/lighting that's causing my motion sickness/eye strain to flare up.

    On the day that it introduces mounts however, I'll be there regardless. I always gotta check out an MMORPGs mounts. XD

  8. #908
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Sure. I'd like you to swing a huge warhammer and just casually stop a slam to do something else.. Maybe we can print a pic in the "I can ignore laws of physics & 500 other fairy tales I tell myself"
    You're being incredibly disingenuous here, and showing you've never actually trained in any real kind of martial art. I never said you could ignore the laws of physics, you're arguing that you can't change what you're doing once start the swing, which is just false. If you swing it hard there's no way you'll be able to just stop it, but that doesn't mean you can't change what you do with that swing. ie You intend to go for an overhead blow, mid-swing you realize they are moving and instead of continuing to commit to the blow you let the momentum of the swing carry you and adjust your footwork to turn it into a movement action rather than just an attack.

    Even if your actions force you into movements that give you inertia and momentum that can't just be cancelled you can change how you use those, if you go for a strike it doesn't mean your momentum HAS to be used to strike, you can turn that into a dodge, a block, a parry, etc...

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    You're being incredibly disingenuous here, and showing you've never actually trained in any real kind of martial art. I never said you could ignore the laws of physics, you're arguing that you can't change what you're doing once start the swing, which is just false. If you swing it hard there's no way you'll be able to just stop it, but that doesn't mean you can't change what you do with that swing. ie You intend to go for an overhead blow, mid-swing you realize they are moving and instead of continuing to commit to the blow you let the momentum of the swing carry you and adjust your footwork to turn it into a movement action rather than just an attack.

    Even if your actions force you into movements that give you inertia and momentum that can't just be cancelled you can change how you use those, if you go for a strike it doesn't mean your momentum HAS to be used to strike, you can turn that into a dodge, a block, a parry, etc...
    You are correct. But you can't magically cancel your attack and move into a completely new attack as the person I originally quoted claims. This is just blatantly false.

  10. #910
    It's alright? I'm not completely blown away by it though.

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    You are correct. But you can't magically cancel your attack and move into a completely new attack as the person I originally quoted claims. This is just blatantly false.
    All discussion of real world physics and martial arts aside....this is about a video game. Animation cancelling is about as close as we'll be able to get to that kind of emergent combat fluidity without an incredibly deep, complex, overly complicated system that isn't really worth the effort to program and animate.

    Being locked into an attack animation for the full duration of the attack, with no choice but to just take the hits if you mess up is no more realistic than animation cancelling a slam attack with a warhammer, but one provides more combat fluidity than the other and would feel better to the player (it would feel better IMO opinion anyway, I don't think it being more fluid is really debatable). I'd rather they ere on the side of fluidity if they have to choose between two relatively equally physically unrealistic scenarios.

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by emotivex View Post
    Limited skills in New World, yes.

    But you actually use all 6 skills. You also use your block/dodge, as well as your light/heavy attack. So 10 skills total.

    Let's add up what I use on my mage in WoW in a combat situation (talking PvP here, PvE realistically it's less abilities in use unless you're counting consumables, in which case New World also has consumables).

    *Denotes rarely used

    1) Fireball
    2) Fireblast
    3) Pyroblast
    4) Shimmer
    5) Polymorph
    6) Counterspell
    7) Frost Nova
    8) Barrier
    9) Cooldowns/Trinkets (usually macro'd, let's be honest)
    10) Dragon's Breath
    11) Meteor
    12) Spellsteal*
    13) Arcane Explosion*
    14) Meteor*
    15) I've probably forgotten something lel

    This is obviously not counting macros such as arena 1/2/3 and focus macros, if you add those in you're looking at significantly more. However, from a baseline skills standpoint the difference is not a lot. AND in WoW you can be casting on something without looking at where they are or what your surroundings are, because of tab targeting. I would argue that in a game like New World the fact you have to be so aware of your surroundings, enemy attack animations and dodges, and the fact you have to aim your skills/abilities, easily makes up for the lack of active abilities in the game. Ability bloat is a problem with many games and this is not one, I feel like they've gotten the balance just about right.
    I'm not trying to say one way is better than the other....

    For teh record I actually couldn't see much reason to take any skills on bow despite leveling with it for 10+ character levels. I FINALLY took the piercing shot because it was AoE (the dmg boosts it got was keeping most threats down before reaching me). I was legfit using ZERO abilities to advance (not gonna count dodge or "basic attacks" as abilities)., Jump back to wow where i have 8 skills to juggle for a rotation and upwards of 30 buttons total for general play.

    I was merely pointing out why I can understand why some people say it's bland when they have nothing to do beyond mouse clicking their basic light/heavy attack... there's very few builder => finisher style mechanics (I think the Rapier has something with bleeds and a bleed remover and musket has a sort of combo increase for hits within a time limit). People coming in expecting that sort of 'rotation' cycle of gameplay are gonna be disappointed. This is not a complaint on my part in anyway, just an observation.

  13. #913
    Didn't think I would enjoy tanking in this game due to the limited weapon choice for tanking. But I have enjoyed it a lot so far. Did a few expeditions and world bosses. Not bad.

    Having to actually fight for threat pleases me.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-07-31 at 03:44 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  14. #914
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    I barely touched the beta in the 2nd week despite having a pretty free week and only old stuff to play. I just found myself completely disinterested in the repeating the same loop of quests to level. Got my refund this morning.

    Hopefully they have a banging patch between now and launch but the crunch is going to be real.

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  15. #915
    A christmas release would be far more reasonable after looking at all the data, hates & loves.

    Rushing it end of august is just... garbage, but most likely the suits disconnected from the reality of gamedev have ordained such.

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I barely touched the beta in the 2nd week despite having a pretty free week and only old stuff to play. I just found myself completely disinterested in the repeating the same loop of quests to level. Got my refund this morning.

    Hopefully they have a banging patch between now and launch but the crunch is going to be real.
    From what I can tell from watching streamers playing New World, the game seems to revolve around gathering and crafting for the most part. The combat in pvp/pve is generic and what you can(should?) expect.

    I find it especially weird how much focus it is on crafting and gathering. Not so sure if people will find that fun to do a few months into the game, but we will see. People have been crying for good proffessions in wow, so maybe they get what they wanted in New World.

    All in all, im not sure if im going to spend money on this game. Seems a bit meh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KevyB View Post
    A christmas release would be far more reasonable after looking at all the data, hates & loves.

    Rushing it end of august is just... garbage, but most likely the suits disconnected from the reality of gamedev have ordained such.
    Thats how it is in todays gaming world. They dont need to have a fully fleshed out 100% ready game to ship it. The hypetrain alone for this game will sell alot of copies. Just have most of it working and make sure the game dont crash. After that, fix and add stuff as time goes on.

    Also, havent they delayed the game atleast two times already? They kind of had to stick to the date now.

  17. #917
    Feeling the post-Beta withdrawal. Woke up and made breakfast and fell into a routine after sending works emails going down to Windsward to farm materials. Hurts, man.


    I racked 58.9 hours in the beta according to Steam. I have had like +90 hours total from all the alphas I took part in before closed beta too. This game is fun as hell to me.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-08-02 at 10:21 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  18. #918
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Saw some videos, and is look pretty decent, the combat feels a bit like ESO but maybe more fluid.

    I think i find the most funny stuff is how you can be a musketeer, never saw the class in a mmo before. Dunno if it will be something bigger, or kill wow, but seems fun to me.

  19. #919
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm pretty sad that it's gone. Do we have any idea on when the first content update will be?

  20. #920
    I played during the beta, and was somewhat surprised by how much I enjoyed some aspects. I really enjoy how different the weapons play, and will probably throw some disposable income at it and give it a go. I treat it essentially as a SP RPG / ARPG for a bit of braindead spamming.
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