[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[justandulas]

I’m pleasantly surprised with new world tbh. It is gorgeous, and shockingly buttery smooth. It’s combat and how responsive it is has console blockbuster AAA game feel, not mmorpg in beta feel

We’ve all played enough mmorpgs to know the combat isn’t always the strongest suit and it’s stuck 20 years in the past often, but this felt different. And we’ve all played enough mmorpg betas to know they are usually laggy, buggy messes but this isn’t. At least not my experience with it.

If they can keep the cash shop from ruining the game, the sky is the limit and it couldn’t have picked a better release date with all the outside the game news about WoW decimating it’s remaining population.

[kenn9530]

Animation locking is going to kill PVP are a month, if people last that long. If you have a heavy weapon, Ill just wait until you get stuck in an animation, dodge, and kill you. Simple as that. With a lack of interupts and CC thats likely to land, PVP is either long rangle Musket/Ice Gauntlet wars are exploiting the clunky animation locks.

This game isn't 'bad', it lacks polish and systems to promote longevity.

Animation cancelling is not a good to have in a game, its what actually makes combat clunky and not fun, combat is about making a decisions and using skill to get a better outcome, it makes no sense whatsoever to be able to cancel an attack since most attacks in NW are instant or very fast to activate as it is.

[BeepBoo]

Animation cancelling is not a good to have in a game, its what actually makes combat clunky and not fun, combat is about making a decisions and using skill to get a better outcome, it makes no sense whatsoever to be able to cancel an attack since most attacks in NW are instant or very fast to activate as it is.

This is patently false. Animation canceling usually turns clunky games into not-as-clunky games. In real life, you aren't bound to just follow through on an idea to execute an attack. You can usually abandon that idea at any point until just about the last 3rd of it. Fakes are a HUGE part of high end fighting, especially in sword fights.

Clunky is being forced to watch your character do something dumb for 3 seconds despite you having obviously realized there is a big threat and now you're getting punished despite having the ability to recognize you should change your action.

[kenn9530]

This is patently false. Animation canceling usually turns clunky games into not-as-clunky games. In real life, you aren't bound to just follow through on an idea to execute an attack. You can usually abandon that idea at any point until just about the last 3rd of it. Fakes are a HUGE part of high end fighting, especially in sword fights.

Clunky is being forced to watch your character do something dumb for 3 seconds despite you having obviously realized there is a big threat and now you're getting punished despite having the ability to recognize you should change your action.

In real life if you start an action you have to follow through with it, swinging a large hammer for example there is no way to cancel that, animation canceling is the worst and clunkiest type of combat and games are not actually designed on the premise of constantly cancelling attacks. If you fake an attack you still have to complete it you cant just cancel any motion in real life.

In combat you make a decision and should have to deal with any consequences if you made the wrong one, most if not all abilities in NW are instantly activated so once you use it there is no going back, if you miss the target then you deserve to take some extra dmg.

The combat in NW is not clunky at all currently, it works pretty well.

[BeepBoo]

In real life if you start an action you have to follow through with it, swinging a large hammer for example there is no way to cancel that,

Spoken like someone who has never actually fought with large weapons. You can just... stop swinging. Period. No melee weapon alive that is actually effective "locks" you into your decision IRL, again, until about the last third when it's way out in front of you about to hit your target. In addition, you can just move your body even IF something were to happen to have that much fucking momentum.

If you fake an attack you still have to complete it you cant just cancel any motion in real life.

Again, showing your ignorance. Just stop. Source: I'm a tournament winning champion in numerous sword/stick hitting sports. You know nothing about actual fighting.

In combat you make a decision and should have to deal with any consequences if you made the wrong one

Reactionary combat > predictive combat. basically always. Predictions are only good for coming up with an initial plan. Once you actually start executing, reactionary is what takes over.

if you miss the target then you deserve to take some extra dmg.

So... counterstriking deserves to be superior, then. Got it. Sounds boring AF. Just is around and wait for someone to throw the first attack and then deck them.

[kenn9530]

Spoken like someone who has never actually fought with large weapons. You can just... stop swinging. Period. No melee weapon alive that is actually effective "locks" you into your decision IRL, again, until about the last third when it's way out in front of you about to hit your target. In addition, you can just move your body even IF something were to happen to have that much fucking momentum.

Again, showing your ignorance. Just stop. Source: I'm a tournament winning champion in numerous sword/stick hitting sports. You know nothing about actual fighting.


Reactionary combat > predictive combat. basically always. Predictions are only good for coming up with an initial plan. Once you actually start executing, reactionary is what takes over.


So... counterstriking deserves to be superior, then. Got it. Sounds boring AF. Just is around and wait for someone to throw the first attack and then deck them.

Stop talking BS, you swing a heavy weapon like a 2h axe or hammer you are not able to cancel that motion without a great deal of strength as best you could do is change the direction slightly, cant just simply ignore basic physics, even light weapons when you apply force you cant cancel the motion completely so animation cancelling is a terrible and stupid concept. Combat in a game is never going to be perfect but it works in NW and is not clunky at all.

In New World you will learn the how enemies fight and if you can get away with a few attacks or if you should block/dodge, most mobs you wont really care about taking a few hits,

[BeepBoo]

Stop talking BS, you swing a heavy weapon like a 2h axe or hammer you are not able to cancel that motion without a great deal of strength as best you could do is change the direction slightly, cant just simply ignore basic physics

You seem to constantly be missing my entire "until the last third" part, but please. Continue being ignorant. Also, IRL attacks don't take like 3 seconds to "charge up" or whatever, so you're already off-base by comparing to this game. They're intentionally slowing it down to give bad players (especially ones with slow reaction times) opportunities for counter play. Git gud. Speed up animations, and make players have to learn to react.

[Edge-]

Animation canceling usually turns clunky games into not-as-clunky games.

Unless the developers don't want to design combat around animation canceling (which can lower the skill floor/raise the skill ceiling in ways they may not want), not really. There are plenty of solid action combat games that don't require players to abuse animation canceling.

Clunky is being forced to watch your character do something dumb for 3 seconds despite you having obviously realized there is a big threat and now you're getting punished despite having the ability to recognize you should change your action.

That's literally the point of animation locks in an action combat game, everything has an opportunity cost. Do you use your big, long animation attack that hits hard? Or do you use a weaker one that moves you to the other side of the monster because you're anticipating a big frontal swing? It's all about opportunity costs, and being able to freely/easily/casually cancel those animations (even triggering a cooldown as a result) can dilute that and make trying to balance the risk/reward of combat challenging.

[Gaidax]

Practically, no way to get out of committed action is down to models being locked into animation without any break points built in. Practically lazy shit out of a trillion dollar company.

I find it funny how the guy here talks about realism in a game where Great Axe and Hammer are 3 times the humanly possible size hit opponents for no actual physical effect and people in full heavy armor run as fast as people in light garb.

Realism excuse would fly if it was actually a consistent thing across the board, but when the whole game is hilariously arcade left click spam with often anime sized weapons suddenly invoking realism in that one thing is kind of funny.

[BeepBoo]

Unless the developers don't want to design combat around animation canceling (which can lower the skill floor/raise the skill ceiling in ways they may not want), not really. There are plenty of solid action combat games that don't require players to abuse animation canceling.

That's fine, but I'm not a fan of most of those. I like games with a wide range of skill where pros dominate plebs. While I absolutely hate the genre, FPSs pretty much epitomize my desires for effectiveness and skill-gap outcomes.

That's literally the point of animation locks in an action combat game, everything has an opportunity cost. Do you use your big, long animation attack that hits hard? Or do you use a weaker one that moves you to the other side of the monster because you're anticipating a big frontal swing?

In this type of game design, it just becomes mundane light attack spam until you know the enemy, then you move to more precise "high risk" tactics. Boring. I want to big dick swing and know I have the reactions to combat anything that might turn awry.

Again, I favor combat that is more analogous to IRL. Go in with a plan, and be able to out-skill your opponent with reactionary counters and real-time alterations to the combat situation at hand.

I understand they might not like that style of gameplay and they want slow-brained individuals to be able to engage in some counter-play, but I personally dislike that design and think it's bad for games. It usually just boils down to "never bother with the high risk" shit, like how no one ever used weapon arts in DS3 due to obscene risk for little-to-no reward versus just left click spam.

[kenn9530]

You seem to constantly be missing my entire "until the last third" part, but please. Continue being ignorant. Also, IRL attacks don't take like 3 seconds to "charge up" or whatever, so you're already off-base by comparing to this game. They're intentionally slowing it down to give bad players (especially ones with slow reaction times) opportunities for counter play. Git gud. Speed up animations, and make players have to learn to react.

The attacks in New World dont take time to activate, you select the ability and go straight into the motion so there is no 3 sec cast time or anything all abilities are pretty much instant so there is no reason to cancel it, you either use an ability or you dont, a heavy attack will leave you open for a counter attack if you miss. The few abilities that do have some sort of cast can be cancelled before and a few can be cancelled during depending on the ability.

[BeepBoo]

The attacks in New World dont take time to activate.

They DO take time to complete, though. Activation time versus swing time, versus cast time, etc. Doesn't matter. 2 seconds of being unable to do anything else is 2 seconds you can get punished. I've watched videos of all the animations. I know what I've seen. Either all animations need to be < .5 seconds and instant activate (at least melee attacks) or they need animation canceling during at least some part of the wind-up. Otherwise, like I said, it's just left-click central and dodge rolls.

Also, fun fact, there is animation canceling on dodge rolls. You can negate the recovery animation altogether.

[Edge-]

Otherwise, like I said, it's just left-click central and dodge rolls.

Dodge rolls sure, they're going to be a big part of combat (especially PvP) no matter what. But like, watching some of the videos I stumble across it sure doesn't look like folks are just spamming light attacks and dodge, plenty of heavy attacks and skills worked into both PvP and PvE combat.

[kenn9530]

They DO take time to complete, though. Activation time versus swing time, versus cast time, etc. Doesn't matter. 2 seconds of being unable to do anything else is 2 seconds you can get punished. I've watched videos of all the animations. I know what I've seen. Either all animations need to be < .5 seconds and instant activate (at least melee attacks) or they need animation canceling during at least some part of the wind-up. Otherwise, like I said, it's just left-click central and dodge rolls.

Also, fun fact, there is animation canceling on dodge rolls. You can negate the recovery animation altogether.

Why dont you actually play the game to find out you are talking nonsense, most abilities activate instantly as there is no animation to cancel before you actually do the action, there is some targeted abilities but they are also instant and a few channelled attacks that can be cancelled during. There is no wind up to using a skill so there is nothing to cancel as most abilities animations dont last for more than 2 secs and most are 1 sec.

The combat in NW is not just left click and dodge, its making use of the abilities/buffs and timing an attack.

The do not need animation cancelling, it makes no sense, its not a good gameplay mechanic, to cancel an action you are in the middle of makes no sense and is just a stupid idea, plus there is not animation cancelling on dodge rolls, most abilities should finish before allowing you to dodge.

[beanman12345]

Can cancel animation on rapier but it's on skill cd. It's not "lazy" it's intentional.

Anyways, got about 9 hours in, got to about 30. I personally think this game will be dead after a month, which isn't good for an MMO. PvP is fun, think i stated that in an earlier post, but, it's also not super amazeballs and idk, I think people are gonna get bored of New World faster than some other's in the genre.

[Fencers]

There is also the Grit mechanic as well. Which many weapons and skills have as you advance.

[BeepBoo]

Why dont you actually play the game to find out you are talking nonsense, most abilities activate instantly as there is no animation to cancel before you actually do the action, there is some targeted abilities but they are also instant and a few channelled attacks that can be cancelled during. There is no wind up to using a skill so there is nothing to cancel as most abilities animations dont last for more than 2 secs and most are 1 sec.

You act like 2 seconds isn't enough to completely alter a combat situation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPb4p4HG628
Pretty sure there are LOTS of animations in there that are long enough to want to cancel.

The do not need animation cancelling, it makes no sense, its not a good gameplay mechanic, to cancel an action you are in the middle of makes no sense and is just a stupid idea, plus there is not animation cancelling on dodge rolls, most abilities should finish before allowing you to dodge.

Nice opinion(s), but I disagree. Kingdoms of Amalur is the epitome of melee action combat, followed closely by dark souls (which is inferior because it's slower and they do lock you out of dodge cancelling on a lot of animations). Otherwise, action games basically suck and I'd prefer tab-targeting instant hit skills where animations don't actually impact anything. new world looks pretty similar in terms of flow to greedfall, except with far less jank. Even without the jank, that game's combat sucked big donkey dick.

[RoKPaNda]

Having just watched the game so far there are some streams where the game looks really fun and there are some where it looks like the choriest chore in the history of chores. I could see myself giving it a try if there's ever a lull in my main MMO.

[mickybrighteyes]

I don't understand people saying the combat is clunky/bland in this game. It's the first MMO I have played in a long time where the combat grabs me and immerses me. Yes, you can only choose up to six abilities total, but think about WoW. You may have 30+ abilities (especially in older versions of the game), but realistically you may use 3-6 in any given situation. The complexity of WoW's combat (from a PvP standpoint) comes from using macros to enhance your gameplay and your reaction times. A game does not need 30+ abilities to have complex combat.

I see why some people think it's bland. VERY limited skills vs other games we might have played. Like in WoW i have like 3 skill bars set up and hot keyed for general use and I know some people have WAY MORE set up for trinkets/consumables/etc. But at the same time I love how it feels less like lock on targeting to fire off effects in rapid succession. I try and line up heavy/light hits timed with a dodge/skill and things just start to flow. Honestly I think i got like 20+ character levels before getting a skill with certain weapons.... I think i was mastery level 8-10 before I even TOUCHED an active skill on the bow (ranged hit box needs work, not gonna lie)

Crafting is great. Something you need to make sure you do is not diversify too much. It gives you the option to become a master crafted at basically anything, but you can easily become burnt out on crafting if you focus on too much at once.

So much this... I think I spent the first week I played just grinding nodes to rank up crafting skills and crafting my full get up. SOOOOO slow, but it was a nice bit of satisfaction making my own rapier, musket, bow, and full set of light armor and even going out of the way to tune the stats acquired.


Also. Most fun i've had in game was a spontaneous group of musketmen advancing almost in ranks mowing through a beach alternating fire/reload maneuvers like some retarded revolutionary war recreation. This was doubly amusing with how one of the early light armor chest pieces looks straight up like the commodore from pirates of the carribean.

I'm enjoying the game to say teh least and know I'm NOT going to be able to keep up with a lvl rush to 60 cause I'll be too distracted trying to grind stone and lumber.

[Fencers]

FF11 had the best crafting where the day of the week and direction you were facing were tired to some crafts. Brilliant.