Demonology pvp and pve

[Deleted]

Hello there, after gearing up 2 melees and borderline depressing over how easy some specs are and getting bored of them way to quickly I decided I wanted to pick up a caster as an alt or possibly main. Mainly for rbg's and some 3's. But this expansion I'm enjoying mythic+ quite a lot and it's the best way of gearing aswell. I'm loving the implosion spec in pvp but naive as I am I went into heroics first day with that build and doing the most pathetic damage ever I knew I was doing something wrong. Less than a day after hitting 110 I'm doing 300k sustained st on bosses in mythics after many trial and errors and it's actually a blast! But on thrash packs I'm doing 1/5 of what most others are doing, even healers and tanks are doing more!? What am I doing wrong as demo lock in aoe?


1. How do you deal with aoe damage as demonology?

2. Why is haste so low in the pvp template when it's our main stat?

With love,
Killigrew

[Sunlighthell]

1. How do you deal with aoe damage as demonology?

2. Why is haste so low in the pvp template when it's our main stat?

With love,
Killigrew

1. Hand of doom + Dark glare?
2. Because Holinka is bad at his job.

[Deleted]

I haven't done any pvp yet, so I can't really say much about that.

AoE wise for dungeons, Implosion is pretty great AoE burst and Darkglare is your best sustained AoE dps. Darkglare is only a bit behind Demonbolt on singletarget as well, so its not a massive loss.

I personally use Implosion for most of my dungeon runs, it lets me keep up, but in general its hard to compete with the AoE burst most melee artifacts do this expansion.
If you're running real high level Mythic+ Darkglare for the sustained is probably the best choice.

[Mongosaurus]

I think haste loses its value in pvp as dreadstalkers become instant, or you run succubus and have sub 1 second shadow/doom bolts anyway and that your usually aren't able to just stand and turret. Therefore crit and mastery become better.

Demo works in pvp and at 100 I destroyed everyone. Now it really doesn't seem to have the burst damage to do anything.

However open world let's say I'm on an elite mob and and alliance gets tagged by splash damage and my imps turn to him after the mob is dead...lulz. those little bastards do a good job of ruining their life quickly.

[Revenant1986]

PvE you're definitely going to have to jump through more hoops than many competing DPS classes to output decent AoE. That being said, I'll run Shadowflame/Hand of Doom/Implosion/Darkglare and in Mythic+ where mobs actually live for a bit, I do respectable AoE DPS and retain pretty strong single target, and Implosion can often be really helpful for priority adds (though our target swapping pales in comparison to many classes).

[bonewax]

I think haste loses its value in pvp as dreadstalkers become instant, or you run succubus and have sub 1 second shadow/doom bolts anyway and that your usually aren't able to just stand and turret. Therefore crit and mastery become better.

Demo works in pvp and at 100 I destroyed everyone. Now it really doesn't seem to have the burst damage to do anything.

However open world let's say I'm on an elite mob and and alliance gets tagged by splash damage and my imps turn to him after the mob is dead...lulz. those little bastards do a good job of ruining their life quickly.

Then youve played against some bad locks. I went up against a demo in pvp the other day and his implosion hit me for over 600k. Half of my life gone in one hit. I would say thats enough burst to make your butthole pucker up a lil bit.

[wholol]

I think haste loses its value in pvp as dreadstalkers become instant, or you run succubus and have sub 1 second shadow/doom bolts anyway and that your usually aren't able to just stand and turret. Therefore crit and mastery become better.

There's a lot of misinformation in your post.

For starters you need to clarify which pvp area you're talking about, in arenas call dreadstalkers is probably the least picked talent in that row, the other 2 options are extremely powerful when used properly.

Second, succubus build is fun in bgs but in any arena setting losing both ranged stun AND interrupt is too big of a deficit to cover with simply faster casts/% shadow dmg increase, this could work with some caster comp with a sham and a mage for example to cover for your lack of interrupt.

Third, haste never loses value so long as you are a turret based spec with long cast times, not to mention fear.

It might become secondary to other stats but it will never be neglected deliberately outside bgs or seeing big numbers in duels.

And to conclude, demo at 110 has more than enough burst when timing implosion and TC properly.

[Deleted]

Then youve played against some bad locks. I went up against a demo in pvp the other day and his implosion hit me for over 600k. Half of my life gone in one hit. I would say thats enough burst to make your butthole pucker up a lil bit.

Yup, Demo's burst is pretty great.

Has a fair bit of setup required and demo is atrociously vulnerable to CC / interrupts / general harassment, but if it can get to PVE someone it can hit like a truck. Worried it won't last though, Blizzard showed their attitude for high risk-reward things in pvp with Chaos Bolt, and that got neutered despite how easy it was to interrupt.

[Deleted]

Then youve played against some bad locks. I went up against a demo in pvp the other day and his implosion hit me for over 600k. Half of my life gone in one hit. I would say thats enough burst to make your butthole pucker up a lil bit.

You think 600k is a lot for having to spend 12 soul shards on 12 imps? 600k is far more normal and requires a lot less setup for certain classes.

The real burst though comes from summoning your hounds, darkglare, infernal and a pack of imps then buffing them and using thakiels consumption timed to it hits with a double doom tick, there is the real burst from a demo lock.

Also to the guy saying haste isn't that needed in arena is purely false, haste is so amazing and that's why the current top comp for demo warlocks atm is with an enhancement shaman giving heroism.

[Mongosaurus]

There's a lot of misinformation in your post.

For starters you need to clarify which pvp area you're talking about, in arenas call dreadstalkers is probably the least picked talent in that row, the other 2 options are extremely powerful when used properly.

Second, succubus build is fun in bgs but in any arena setting losing both ranged stun AND interrupt is too big of a deficit to cover with simply faster casts/% shadow dmg increase, this could work with some caster comp with a sham and a mage for example to cover for your lack of interrupt.

Third, haste never loses value so long as you are a turret based spec with long cast times, not to mention fear.

It might become secondary to other stats but it will never be neglected deliberately outside bgs or seeing big numbers in duels.

And to conclude, demo at 110 has more than enough burst when timing implosion and TC properly.

His questions seem more related to casual play, so I responded more geared to random BGs.

- Lol, 600k is not scary damage for the time required. You are wrong, not even going to argue further.
- TKC can hit hard, but if it doesn't...welcome to waiting forever to use it again.
- I was talking in BGs regarding succy. It is fun but for arena I wouldn't take it. My brother quit playing so I don't do arena right now.
- Fel Lord is good for area denial but I think the range on observer sucks.
- My point about haste is that it's largely pointless as you aren't just left alone to cast all day. Maybe you have had a different experience in BGs but I'm being sat by 3+ melee and stunned all day.
- My damage is easily higher than anyone else in a BG with implosion, yet it still feels worthless. You can't chase well, if at all either which sucks for CTF.
- I never said to ignore haste. Do not put words in my mouth. Just dont see the huge value in stacking it to like 40%(yadda yadda, normalized values)

[Challenge]

I can answer any pvp questions in this thread

1. Haste is low on the template because simply put, we dont need it. In PvP you cant sit there and be a turret like you can in PvE. Its still valueable through other sources like enh shamans

2. insta Dreadstalkers is the worst talent tier on the row. In any competitive setting, Call Observer and Call Fellord (typically fellord all the way tbh) will provide much better results. The only time I would consider using dreakstalkers over the other 2, is perhaps something like 2v2 against healer and a ranged dps

3. The sucubuss talent is very meh. On one hand, you get 15% doom damage (i've had upwards of 750k+ doom ticks with the stars aligning) and faster shadow/demonbolts, but at the cost of no MS effect, no stun, and overall a weaker pet for damage. The seduction and mini knockback the succubus does is really shit unless you are playing on like random EoTs Or AB. You dont even spam shadow/demonbolts that much to begin with when you are being trained to dirt.

4. Imposion is just....OK. Sure sometimes you randomly hit someone for like 700k but imp dreadstalkers is just much more reliable. Without it dreadstalkers is barely worth the cast in the first place

Overall, the best way to play demo pvp is to doom it up on everything, dark glare off cd, and shadowflame when applicable for shards on fellord/imp dreadstalkers/darkglare.

[Mongosaurus]

Plus dankglare moan is so satisfying.

[Deleted]

4. Imposion is just....OK. Sure sometimes you randomly hit someone for like 700k but imp dreadstalkers is just much more reliable. Without it dreadstalkers is barely worth the cast in the first place

Overall, the best way to play demo pvp is to doom it up on everything, dark glare off cd, and shadowflame when applicable for shards on fellord/imp dreadstalkers/darkglare.

Nonsense.

Implosion is far from "just OK", it's by far the best pvp build warlocks have right now against everything but the most disruptive comps - there's a reason just about everyone is gravitating towards it.

Haste also isn't low on the template because we don't need it, it's by far our most valuable stat because we CAN sit there and be a turret and that's how we have to play if we want to get the most out of demo. If you're running around as demonology you're not going to be getting much of anything done. Haste is low because they set it low, and possibly rightly so - it's so good they probably don't WANT us to have too much of it.

[wholol]

There seem to be a lot of different opinions in this thread, simply because there are several playstyles to the spec revolving around key talents etc.

The fact that we're arguing which is best means they're all viable in certain settings so just pick what you feel comfortable with and have fun

[bonewax]

You think 600k is a lot for having to spend 12 soul shards on 12 imps? 600k is far more normal and requires a lot less setup for certain classes.

The real burst though comes from summoning your hounds, darkglare, infernal and a pack of imps then buffing them and using thakiels consumption timed to it hits with a double doom tick, there is the real burst from a demo lock.

Also to the guy saying haste isn't that needed in arena is purely false, haste is so amazing and that's why the current top comp for demo warlocks atm is with an enhancement shaman giving heroism.

it was 6 imps that did 100k damage not 12.

[Mongosaurus]

it was 6 imps that did 100k damage not 12.

I think you meant 6 imps did 600k. Else your comment makes me lol

[bonewax]

I think you meant 6 imps did 600k. Else your comment makes me lol

yea my bad it was 6 imps that each did 100k.

[Deleted]

Looking at the ladder, the implosion spec seems the most popular. In bgs and few skirms I've done up to a 1 million burst with only implosion during synergy an soul harvest. My original questions somewhat target to high end play but not "hardcore". I see myself as a hardcore casual xD as I love doing mythic + and 2.2k+ arenas on my main. Very much appreciate the feedback on this thread for what talents to run in mythics, I struggled with goign either aoe or st, I think something in between will have to do.

Do people REALLY play darkglare for sustained dmg in arena? Will have to use it some more, I guess if I know I'll be trained the whole game it's very good indeed.

[Deleted]

1. How do you deal with aoe damage as demonology?

2. Why is haste so low in the pvp template when it's our main stat?

With love,
Killigrew

1. TRY implosion - it's absolutely insane. I use it for a couple weeks now and i can't look back. Just amazing damage.

2. So that we farm gear lol.

But srsly try implosion.

[Niriana]

pvp - Pleasure through Pain works with Succubus you summon through Grimoire of Service: +15% shadow dmg, +1 pet for Thal'kiel and faster shadow/demonbolt cast. You can still use Felguard as main pet. But if you use Succubus as main pet and summon another Succubus through Grimoire of Service, Pleasure through Pain makes them stack: +30% shadow dmg and even faster shadow/demonbolt cast than using only 1 succubus.
But you lose Call Felhunter silence and Grimoire of Synergy.