The more I play my mage alt, the more annoyed I get.

[FelPlague]

Gateway was a key for Mythic Renferal kill, just sayin'.

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The one that has Implosion... you?

do hand of guldan, ok 57k, kk implosion 75k per imp, so that is... 357k hp... danm, yeah i would totally one shot every mob with that, notl ike the average 110 mob has about 1 mil HP

[Mindark]

idk sheep can be used on anything, where banish can only be used on demons,abberations, and elementles

Aren't sheep and banish literally mutually exclusive of each other? There is no overlap. Sheep cannot be used on anything, specifically demons, aberrations, and elementals.

I won't argue that sheep is more valuable in most cases though.

[Gaidax]

idk sheep can be used on anything, where banish can only be used on demons,abberations, and elementles

Banish also makes the add not benefit from bolster, it is very powerful in a few dungeons when there is a bolster week. As a whole - in many dungeons you can use banish, it can be a lifesaver.

Sheep is great of course, but banish when applicable is amazing and you have quite a few opportunities to use it. As a flip point - sheep is not usable on everything.

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do hand of guldan, ok 57k, kk implosion 75k per imp, so that is... 357k hp... danm, yeah i would totally one shot every mob with that, notl ike the average 110 mob has about 1 mil HP

Maybe if you are ilvl 840 and have no Synergy and 0% crit then yes, implosion is 75k per imp. Really, just go away. Next thing you will tell me Demo struggles in soloing...

But you know what? In case things do survive, you know what you do? Demonwrath > HoG > Implosion... woohoo, so 'ard. Really if you can't kill shit questing before Doom ticks, then I do not know what to tell you.

[FelPlague]

Banish also makes the add not benefit from bolster, it is very powerful in a few dungeons when there is a bolster week. As a whole - in many dungeons you can use banish, it can be a lifesaver.

Sheep is great of course, but banish when applicable is amazing and you have quite a few opportunities to use it. As a flip point - sheep is not usable on everything.

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Maybe if you are ilvl 840 and have no Synergy and 0% crit then yes, implosion is 75k per imp. Really, just go away. Next thing you will tell me Demo struggles in soloing...

But you know what? In case things do survive, you know what you do? Demonwrath > HoG > Implosion... woohoo, so 'ard. Really if you can't kill shit questing before Doom ticks, then I do not know what to tell you.

im 859 ilvl, with 13% crit, running mostly haste cause you know, the stat demo is suppose to stack?

and you said in 2 spells, demonwrath hog, implosion is 3...

[Gaidax]

Of course you can try and wriggle your way out of it by taking things LITERAL (lulz Demonwrath is another hit, you lose!), but the idea behind the expression is simple - you kill random riff raff before Doom has actual opportunity to tick and as such pulling shit with Doom or with Havoc is of little actual difference.

I am not sure why you are so hellbent on contesting that, but I guess it's because you seen "Gaidax" on a post it suddenly increased your aggressiveness by 300% and reduced common sense by 70%, seeing how such a menace on humanity as me has to be opposed about EVERYTHING.

[Obelisk Kai]

You are all aware that this is grass is greener syndrome right?

We Mages have our own issues and our own problems, we discuss them within our boards and yes, we look at other classes that do some things better than we do and we get envious as well.

Reading some of the posts in this thread you almost get the impression that Mages are some kind of wunderclass without drawback or flaw. I can tell you that is REALLY not the case.

[Deleted]

1. You have proven nothing other than that you don't have any valid points "against" locks.
2. Your last statement "proves" how less you know about that what you are talking about ("mythic progression", nice try, lol)

I assume you mean because my mage is ilvl 810. My lock is 861. My mage is an alt for a reason. I don't have that much time to play the game anymore to have 850+ alts.

[Gaidax]

TBH, I don't see much problem with the statement as a whole, Fire Mages > Warlocks? Shocking!

If you want best experience, then picking Fire Mage is nobrainer, question is what happens further on once the inevitable happens, such as either Warlocks get further uplifted or Fire gets nerfbatted and it is safe to assume that either will happen pretty soon.

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As a side note for the people who are genuinely in thoughts of what to play next, then the fairest and best advice one can give is just to look past the numbers and into the core of each class/spec theme, the following will be true no matter what this expansion:

1. Warlocks will keep using Soul Shards
2. Destruction will be RNG in resource and damage to varying extent
3. Demonology will be centered around summoning and maintaining a demon army as its source of damage
4. Affliction will be centered around dots and most likely still RNG resource.

Then we can look at the following as a guideline of things likely to happen:

1. Warlocks will likely not have interrupt situation improved
2. Warlocks will not have better mobility than mages
3. Warlocks will remain very tough caster with great defenses
4. Warlocks will remain great soloers across the board
5. Demonology and Affliction will retain ramp up to some extent


If the above is fine by you - then stay Warlock, because ultimately the top of the foodchain is evershifting and whatever spot mages/warlocks occupy now is not guaranteed to persist.

[Deleted]

You are all aware that this is grass is greener syndrome right?

We Mages have our own issues and our own problems, we discuss them within our boards and yes, we look at other classes that do some things better than we do and we get envious as well.

Reading some of the posts in this thread you almost get the impression that Mages are some kind of wunderclass without drawback or flaw. I can tell you that is REALLY not the case.

Not really, we got two ex-warlocks in my guild who went mage and they have both said yeah. mage is miles better

The rotation is smoother, you feel mobile (as opposed to being a motionless turret who "tankiness" is, in fact, largely worthless because Mythic and raid "move" mechanics mean a warlock will live, like, two tenths of a second longer, or still get stunned or do splash damage), you feel powerful (whereas Destruction's big scarey nuke hits like a noodle)

No dependence on pets, which are more a liability than they are fun, the mage talent tree is nowhere near as restrictive when it comes to aoe vs single target - that's one of my biggest beefs over warlocks, and it hits affliction particularly hard

There is a good reason why three times as many people play mages than play warlocks. Warlock is the least played class in the game, by according to Jondar and Gaidax it's all because people just don;t appreciate how fantastic they are and how you can throw your heart and soul into one and aspire to be average

Affliction feels like a one trick pony, dmeonology has all sorts of horrible baked into it's mechanics, and destruction - the most viable because they fucked it about the least and also because on demand high burst tends to win out over almost anything else, one of the big reasons affliction and demo suffer is their horrendous ramp as in "kill the add! ok gimme a couple of minutes whilst I get my dots up and demons out, oh its dead the mage killed it already lol"

Well, destruction in my view leans much, much too heavily on Wreak Havoc. Basically, it's good when you can essentially double your damage with cleaving, but that means it;s single target damage has to be low to prevent it being ungodly strong when you can double it.

So destruction relies massively on Wreak Havoc, it renders the other talents insignificant, and it makes it way harder to balance destro

Essentially, the managed to apply affliction's age-old issue of "strong dots means too strong on multidot" - to destruction via Wreak Havoc lol

They can't make Chaos Bolt really big and scary because it would be too powerful when you can use Havoc

Result, any fight where you can't perma-cleave and destro joins affliction in the doldrums.

We had a guy who was a big fan of destruction and always played it. He saw the writing on the wall and rerolled mage for Legion. Would he go back?

"I wouldn't touch it"

[Gaidax]

There is a good reason why three times as many people play mages than play warlocks. Warlock is the least played class in the game, by according to Jondar and Gaidax it's all because people just don;t appreciate how fantastic they are and how you can throw your heart and soul into one and aspire to be average.

Don't put your words in my mouth, buddy.

You do not have the capacity to understand what I and Jondar are saying, because you are hardwired to bitch and moan about everything that warlocks are, it's your problem really, but do not go ahead and spread bullshit about what I am saying.

[Cainium]

We had a guy who was a big fan of destruction and always played it. He saw the writing on the wall and rerolled mage for Legion. Would he go back?

"I wouldn't touch it"

Locks were 1. easy and 2. OP during MoP. Be it either Afflictions Soul Swap abuse on council fights, Trinket abuse with Doom and 100% Crit for Demo, 2-Shot Chaos Wave Demo in PvP, one-shot Chaosbolt Destro in PvP, and so on.

If someone rerolled during MoP to Lock and compare the MoP state to now, yes, I get it that these kind of players would never touch Locks again. In fact, the Legion iteration of Aff and Destro isn't that different from MoP/WoD. Things like RNG mastery suck just for the RNG reason, not because of number tuning.

It depends what a player cares of. For the playstyle, when to cast CB or not, it doesn't matter if the mastery is RNG or not. My gues is people bring up that point 'cause they don't like the numbers they see, and hope for a mastery change to see their "big" numbers again, even if the whole tuning of the spec would have to be balanced around that, making it worse in other departments, ignoring the fact that the playstyle wouldn't change drastically.

I often don't really get the point why players "dislike" these things, if it is just "I want my 4 keybind 5 million cb destro lock back", which they will never get back.

[Felrok]

In most standard situations it's actually easier since everything is glued to the tank anyway. In other cases, stuff can move from under the SF reticle during cast time, meanwhile they'd follow the mob with Mind Bomb. The only time it might be 'harder' is in picking the most applicable mob rather than placing a reticle, which is an unusual use for a stun.

I only meant it was more difficult to set up an interrupt via mind bomb than shadowfury, because you would need to know 2 seconds beforehand. The actual usability of both spells are superior and inferior in different situations.

Locks were 1. easy and 2. OP during MoP. Be it either Afflictions Soul Swap abuse on council fights, Trinket abuse with Doom and 100% Crit for Demo, 2-Shot Chaos Wave Demo in PvP, one-shot Chaosbolt Destro in PvP, and so on.

If someone rerolled during MoP to Lock and compare the MoP state to now, yes, I get it that these kind of players would never touch Locks again. In fact, the Legion iteration of Aff and Destro isn't that different from MoP/WoD. Things like RNG mastery suck just for the RNG reason, not because of number tuning.

It depends what a player cares of. For the playstyle, when to cast CB or not, it doesn't matter if the mastery is RNG or not. My gues is people bring up that point 'cause they don't like the numbers they see, and hope for a mastery change to see their "big" numbers again, even if the whole tuning of the spec would have to be balanced around that, making it worse in other departments, ignoring the fact that the playstyle wouldn't change drastically.

I often don't really get the point why players "dislike" these things, if it is just "I want my 4 keybind 5 million cb destro lock back", which they will never get back.

The problem I have isn't necessarily mastery, its the RNG based around soul shards. With Burning Embers it was stable, reliable and consistent. If I really needed embers I could spam incinerate to start ramping back up quickly, I cannot do that now. Outside of Conflag there is no way to guarantee soul shard generation and that makes it random. I get that that is what they are aiming for, "Class Fantasy" and all, but that isn't why people liked destruction. People liked destruction because you knew what you were getting, always, it was consistent and stable. I don't have a problem with soul shards, I generate them just fine most of the time, but when the problem does occur (as is the case with RNG it will happen eventually) I notice it and it is a little frustrating. I prefer the burning ember system, even if they use the name soul shard I don't really care, its the reliable system that I want back most of all.

[purebalance]

Yes demo has a ranged stun, which you can use while casting and even your Global cooldown doesnt affect it at all. Pretty shit, right?



Either he played with the worst mages in the world, or you dont know how to aoe. not sure which. As demo, mages annihilate warlocks for like 6 sec. After the second imp pack lands u start getting higher and when doom ticks there is no contest anymore. The difference in the sustain is huge. I guess there must be to many autistic mages around.

And that interrupts casts from bosses? Weird that bosses can be stunned.... oh wait they can't and it's not an interrupt.

[Woz]

Closing this. No need for the toxicity.