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  1. #41
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Not within the same war. They were nearing fully depleting their supplies by the Russian invasion as it was. If Germany had defeated Russia, it would likely have solidified its control over Europe and established peace from there, and then spent time consolidating its power before either choosing to be content with controlling Europe or pushing forward with renewed resources and forces.

    Also, Britain won its part of the war when they won the Battle of Britain. There are no realistic projections from military experts that Germany would have conquered the UK within the same war, because the British navy was fully intact and significantly powerful, and essentially invulnerable with air superiority. Britain is an island, yes, but it is a very, very large island that can be self sustaining should it need to be.

  2. #42
    Anything is possible.
    If Nazi has nuclear weapon first, etc.

    Don't believe "justice always prevails".

    Even today, the world can end quickly if WW3 happens.

  3. #43
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    argentina may have declared war but did they really hate germany? post war history says no.

    also it's likely that hitler could have eventually succeeded since he was researching rockets. and his u boats reigned supreme.
    he also had plenty of facist converts and still does here in the u.s.
    there are still plenty of white supremacy movements here in the u.s. thriving today.
    complete with pictures of hitler,himmler and reinhard and nazi flags.
    You're right in that there were Nazi's in America but not enough to make an impact. If that was the case then they would've made an impact on the US fighting on the Westfront in the fight place. We had plenty of white supremacist but their nationalism Trumped that. Their shared hatred for the Jews didn't stop them from hating a hostile country as well.

    German U-boats could only do so much so far from home unless Germany was able to seize a nice little swatch of land in the US. Remember, the US was heavily exporting resources during the war, what would the U-boats be targeting if there weren't any merchant vessels on the seas?

    Germany did have the upper hand in rocketry, but for how long until the Allies got their own rockets? The US was building The Bomb. The British were the IT nerds of the time. I'm sure they could have least lifted some German blueprints if rockets became a problem.


    The war would've been bloodier but I don't think Germany would've gained much from the US unless they could've crippled the US's nuclear program while completing their own.

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  4. #44
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    You're right in that there were Nazi's in America but not enough to make an impact. If that was the case then they would've made an impact on the US fighting on the Westfront in the fight place. We had plenty of white supremacist but their nationalism Trumped that. Their shared hatred for the Jews didn't stop them from hating a hostile country as well.

    German U-boats could only do so much so far from home unless Germany was able to seize a nice little swatch of land in the US. Remember, the US was heavily exporting resources during the war, what would the U-boats be targeting if there weren't any merchant vessels on the seas?

    Germany did have the upper hand in rocketry, but for how long until the Allies got their own rockets? The US was building The Bomb. The British were the IT nerds of the time. I'm sure they could have least lifted some German blueprints if rockets became a problem.


    The war would've been bloodier but I don't think Germany would've gained much from the US unless they could've crippled the US's nuclear program while completing their own.
    yes but had germany never turned on russia things might have turned out quite different with russia supplying them the fuel. with russia's million man army and germany technological advantage i don't think britian and the u.s. would have lasted long...
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  5. #45
    The nazis were too consumed by their own narcissism to ever get that far. Just look at how their tank designs got gradually worse until they were little more than fancy deathtraps for the crews.

  6. #46
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    yes but had germany never turned on russia things might have turned out quite different with russia supplying them the fuel. with russia's million man army and germany technological advantage i don't think britian and the u.s. would have lasted long...
    There's no realistic situation involving Stalin aligning with Hitler and sending all his armies away to die by the hundreds of thousands trying to cross the sea against an enemy with air and sea superiority.

  7. #47
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperationFerret View Post
    The nazis were too consumed by their own narcissism to ever get that far. Just look at how their tank designs got gradually worse until they were little more than fancy deathtraps for the crews.
    because they were being bombed by british and american bombers night and day and losing the war?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    There's no realistic situation involving Stalin aligning with Hitler and sending all his armies away to die by the hundreds of thousands trying to cross the sea against an enemy with air and sea superiority.
    stalin really didn't like or trust the u.s. at all and it isn't that far of a possibility if hitler had promised him some resource areas in the u.s.
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  8. #48
    Define a successful invasion for me please.

    Like just landing?

    Sure.

    Holding a beachhead?

    Probably, my guess would be an area north of New York.

    Conquering the country from a foothold?

    Nope. No way in hell.

    You're talking about an almost pre-industrial wilderness with no interstate highway system, terrible terrain, large areas to cover, a hostile force and a supply line that crosses an ocean. It's completely insane to think that they could come over and do more than hold a small area for a brief amount of time - even if they had bombers flying down from Greenland.

    Add into that the mobilization of American Manufactury in "the heartland" of Detroit, Chicago, St Louis, etc all far from the ocean with a mountain range to cover and happily cranking out anti-aircraft artillery.

    It would be an even worse situation for Germany than the Japanese hope of gaining San Diego.

  9. #49
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post

    stalin really didn't like or trust the u.s. at all and it isn't that far of a possibility if hitler had promised him some resource areas in the u.s.
    Stalin hated and mistrusted the Nazis far more than the highly isolationist US. Forces were being consolidated to attack the Germans in late 1941 believing that German forces were consolidating in the west for an invasion of the UK. Even if Operation Barbarossa had not happened, there would have been war.

    Not to mention that ultimately, the Russia navy and air force would have contributed next to nothing for actually taking the island, or the US. The central problem stands. That million man army is pointless if you can't get them onto land.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    because they were being bombed by british and american bombers night and day and losing the war?
    No, because they equated bigger/heavier with better.

  11. #51
    they wouldn't have. Remember: Germany's goal was Lebensraum - living space. They had an idea and a goal, and for a while, they stuck to it - Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia, German Austria, Poland, Russia. The room they needed, in their warped mind, to raise Germany up. Give it Oil, Coal, Iron, farmland, and the workers (read: Slaves - in its original, Slavic meaning) to use them.

    The US didn't fit into that. Sure the US had resources, but they were dangerous to access. Also, at the time, plenty of Germans thought that Ethnic Germans in the US (almost 8%) might support them - maybe they didn't think they'd need to do the dangerous work of conquering - they could peacefully get what they wanted ( they thought the same thing of England, relying on the fact that the House of Windsor was once the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, a German territory).

    I doubt the Nazi high command had anything but sketchy plans on a military invasion of the US - the kind of wild-eyed dreaming that Military people do sometimes as war games or as contingency plans (think Batman in the Tower of Babel storyline).
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by OperationFerret View Post
    No, because they equated bigger/heavier with better.
    To put a little perspective to this:

    One battalion of Shermans which was 60 tanks needed 30 trucks to be supported. One battalion of Tigers which was 45 tanks needed 130 trucks to support it. Germany already had terrible logistics and they made it even worse by building big fat tanks that took up a divisions worth of trucks to keep supplied and running.

    Also German tank production by year:

    1939 - 370
    1940 - 1,888
    1941 - 3,623
    1942 - 5,530
    1943 - 11,601
    1944 - 18,956
    1945 - 4,406

    Bombing them didn't really affect how many tanks they could produce nearly as much as people seem to think.

  13. #53
    even in this hypothetical scenario no, not a chance, because while the US was "netural" we were the primary supplier of military goods to the Allies so it would be rather hard for Germany to really catch the US unprepared as they did France and Belgium with the Blitzkrieg,

    even beyond that there is the simple matter of supply lines, the US is strategically with not just oceans separating it from potential adversaries but also large amounts of mineral resources and productive farmland, meaning that it could easily keep it's forced supplied and fed for an extended war while both Germany and Japan would be forced to ship men/supplies/food across oceans, making them vulnerable to attack/destruction

    and let's not forget what happened in actual History, Pearl Harbor was meant to be a devastating attack designed to defeat the US before they even knew they were part of the war, and what ended up actually happening? it "woke a Giant" creating unity of purpose in the American people and bringing the largest economy of the day into full militarized wartime production, so it is safe to assume the same would happen in this scenario, meaning the US would have the means and willingness to fight, while the Axis powers would be having to split their forces between attacking the US and consolidating their other newly annexed territory

    eventually yes the Axis war machine would probably be able to out produce/wear down the US but this would most likely take years, possibly even decades for them to fully consolidate their power/production and amass the overwhelming force/resources that would be needed to launch a successful campaign against the US

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    There's no realistic situation involving Stalin aligning with Hitler and sending all his armies away to die by the hundreds of thousands trying to cross the sea against an enemy with air and sea superiority.
    The USSR invaded Poland along with Germany and Stalin was so surprised that Hitler broke the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact that he didn't give the order to return fire until several hours after Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union.

    And the U.S. military wasn't particularly overwhelming at the time of Pearl Harbor, much less in the years prior.

    This thread is almost entirely nonsense being spouted by people who don't know what they are talking about.

  15. #55
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    No way they possibly could unless Canada or Mexico decided to join forces with the Nazis.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy4123 View Post
    To put a little perspective to this:

    One battalion of Shermans which was 60 tanks needed 30 trucks to be supported. One battalion of Tigers which was 45 tanks needed 130 trucks to support it.
    Did the Sherman battalion have its own Flakpanzer pluton? Its own mobile workshop? Stuff that need extra trucks. Was the Sherman battalion expect to use only its own organic trucks for all its logistic needs, or was it standard that higher element logistics troops suport them with their own trucks?

    The Tiger battalion was made to be "independent" hence a large number of organic trucks.

    0,5 trucks vs 2,88 thats almost a raito of 6, there are no way a Tiger alone consume 6 time the logistics of a Sherman.

    Heavy tank was logical, we assumes that a Tiger have the 1:3 exchange rate to a Sherman. hence the Germans did only need to spend 54 ton steel to destroy 90 ton US steel. Only loss 5 men to kill 15 US men, at the same time using less fuel then US. You only get about 1:1 if you use Panzer IV agenst Shermans. Hence Germans freek tanks like Jagtiger and Mause in the later war, the hevy tank logic taken to the extream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    No way they possibly could unless Canada or Mexico decided to join forces with the Nazis.
    and doubt that will helpe if US are not totaly incompetent, how shall the German ship over the troops and logistic then US navy controll the the surface of the Atlantic.

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Aori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    There's no realistic situation involving Stalin aligning with Hitler and sending all his armies away to die by the hundreds of thousands trying to cross the sea against an enemy with air and sea superiority.
    Even if he did, Japan would have had no part of it. We could have very well likely seen a Japanese American alliance, Russia would have lost its coast in that scenario.

  18. #58
    Invaded, sure. Held? No way.


    But it's fun to think about

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  19. #59
    Not to defend the Nazis or anything like that, but I think some of the criticism that the Tiger and similarly grandiose weapon systems get is a little unfair. The Germans simply did not have the industrial capacity to match American production tank for tank, and even if they did the only medium tank designs they had were the outdated Panzer III and IV which were not a match for the Sherman or T-34 in combat. And the Tiger's psychological value far outweighed its combat value - American soldiers were justifiably terrified of them and habitually misidentified any tank they encountered as one, meaning that it had a much greater impact on the war than its actual numbers would indicate. Of course in the grand scheme of things the Nazis were doomed regardless of what weapons they built or what strategy they employed, but at the very least the crazy weapons they used in the latter stages proved a huge boon to speculative fiction writers....

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    IV which were not a match for the Sherman or T-34 in combat.
    Panzer IV was equivalent to Sherman or T-34 in combat, hence it was a losing strategy to buld Panzer IV.

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