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  1. #1

    Absentee ballots burned in the NC GOP office fire

    Link to Twitter, screencap of Fox News

    First off, if they were completed ballots, it's illegal for them to have them. The law only allows the voters or close relatives to transfer the ballots.

    But the story has already been clarified that the ballots were blank.

    Which brings up another question. Are the rules in NC so different that political parties have access to blank absentee ballots? Do they distribute the ballots (and get to decide who DOESN'T get the ballots)? How do they determine that the person receiving the ballot hasn't already voted?

    And if the rules AREN'T different in NC, if the elections office and the postal service are the only ones who should be handling ballots (aside from the voters), why were there blank ballots in their headquarters?

    As I've often pointed out in various arguments about the voter ID laws, most voter fraud (even as infrequent as it is) aren't the types that are stopped by voter ID laws. Case in point, absentee ballot fraud.

    And here we have a political party that claims the only form of voter fraud is voter IMPERSONATION fraud (the ONLY form of voter fraud that would be stopped by voter ID laws), with access to an unknown number of absentee ballots.

    Someone gave them those ballots. Was it the printer? Or was it someone who works in the elections office?

    North Carolina is a state where Nate Silver (FiveThirtyEight.com) is projecting a 48.2% to 46.2% Clinton win (65% chance of Clinton winning by any margin; using the "polls plus" forecast, which includes polls plus current state of the nation). It's a toss-up state. It wouldn't take much to give Trump the state (and especially the Senate seat, which has the Republican incumbent winning by a razor-thin projected 0.1% margin).

    And a Republican campaign headquarters was just found with an unknown number of blank absentee ballots.

    Like I said, the laws may be different in NC. Maybe it's perfectly alright for people to have access to large numbers of absentee ballots.

    Anyone in NC care to comment?

  2. #2
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    Voting in this country should require an ID, period. Any argument contrary to that is just complete and total bullshit. All voter ID cards should be subsidized at both the Federal and State level. Every person that is 18 and a certified American citizen should be able to obtain a Voter ID card free of charge from their state election board. Period, end of story, not open for debate.

  3. #3
    Banned BuckSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Voting in this country should require an ID, period. Any argument contrary to that is just complete and total bullshit. All voter ID cards should be subsidized at both the Federal and State level. Every person that is 18 and a certified American citizen should be able to obtain a Voter ID card free of charge from their state election board. Period, end of story, not open for debate.
    100% agree. We need voter ID. 1 Person, 1 ID, 1 vote.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Voting in this country should require an ID, period. Any argument contrary to that is just complete and total bullshit. All voter ID cards should be subsidized at both the Federal and State level. Every person that is 18 and a certified American citizen should be able to obtain a Voter ID card free of charge from their state election board. Period, end of story, not open for debate.
    But GOP will never allow that. since that doesnt stop blacks etc from voting

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    But GOP will never allow that. since that doesnt stop blacks etc from voting
    Wrong - it is the Democrats and the illegal vote.

    No use in going back and forth on this, this should NOT be a partisan issue. This is something that this entire country, regardless of political affiliation, should DEMAND of their elected representatives.

    (BTW - I send a letter 2x a year to my US senators demanding this type of legislation.)

  6. #6
    The story is about potential voter fraud by a party in a battleground state, not of the in person type, and we are already derailed into a voter ID discussion.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    The story is about potential voter fraud by a party in a battleground state, not of the in person type, and we are already derailed into a voter ID discussion.
    I dunno, I found it highly amusing that the first few posts devolved into ranting about in-person fraud for absentee ballots. Pretty telling of why the places where higher instances of fraud occur aren't even mentioned.

  8. #8
    I've never found voting to be all the essential to the process.

  9. #9
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    I've never found voting to be all the essential to the process.
    mostly because the parties already have the nominee crowned before the primaries even start.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Wrong - it is the Democrats and the illegal vote.

    No use in going back and forth on this, this should NOT be a partisan issue. This is something that this entire country, regardless of political affiliation, should DEMAND of their elected representatives.

    (BTW - I send a letter 2x a year to my US senators demanding this type of legislation.)
    31 cases of vote fraud in the last billion votes cast in the USA. Yup. Absolute priority to write laws that disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people to stop it. I laughed so much that the voter fraud caught in the 2012 election was right wing nut jobs that believed the GOP's scaremongering about voter fraud and thought "If the evil Liberals are doing it then so will we!" only to be caught and prosecuted because it is very hard to pull off.

    The trick to knowing if the voter ID laws are intended to protect the vote or intended to disenfranchise certain voters is simple. Look to see if the law includes any meaningful assistance for citizens to get the required IDs. If yes, then it is a valid voter ID law, if not, then it is a voter disenfranchisement law. To date there has not been a single valid voter ID law in the USA.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karnak View Post
    31 cases of vote fraud in the last billion votes cast in the USA. Yup. Absolute priority to write laws that disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people to stop it....

    The trick to knowing if the voter ID laws are intended to protect the vote or intended to disenfranchise certain voters is simple. Look to see if the law includes any meaningful assistance for citizens to get the required IDs.
    Did you even read my original post? I said Voter ID's should be provided FREE OF CHARGE to all people that are 18 and a certified American citizen. The ID's should be funded by both Federal and State tax dollars. This would disenfranchise NO ONE.

    And btw - ONE case of voter fraud is ONE too many.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Did you even read my original post? I said Voter ID's should be provided FREE OF CHARGE to all people that are 18 and a certified American citizen. The ID's should be funded by both Federal and State tax dollars. This would disenfranchise NO ONE.

    And btw - ONE case of voter fraud is ONE too many.
    He's not talking about just the cost of the id itself. A lot of the laws that they tried to pass to make voter id a requirement also at the same time made it harder to to get the id. Things like shutting down a lot of the places to get it so you have to travel a long ways. Making it so they are only open on weekdays with short/odd hours things like that.

  13. #13
    Voter fraud in the US is a fraction of a percent, so I don't think it's much of an issue.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WintersLegion View Post
    Things like shutting down a lot of the places to get it so you have to travel a long ways. Making it so they are only open on weekdays with short/odd hours things like that.
    Set up a special area in every US Post Office and make them available during all weekday hours and on Saturday. Like I said, every counter argument to Voter ID is complete bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Voter fraud in the US is a fraction of a percent, so I don't think it's much of an issue.
    That doesn't matter one bit. As an American you should be unwilling to accept ANY voter fraud - period.
    Last edited by mmocc836e66a65; 2016-10-18 at 05:26 AM.

  15. #15
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Set up a special area in every US Post Office and make them available during all weekday hours and on Saturday. Like I said, every counter argument to Voter ID is complete bullshit.



    That doesn't matter one bit. As an American you should be unwilling to accept ANY voter fraud - period.
    shutting down any arguments because you don't like them is bullshit.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    shutting down any arguments because you don't like them is bullshit.
    No, all arguments against Voter ID are bullshit.

    I just gave you a very workable example for how to issue them. I also advocate that they should be FREE to qualified recipients.

    Post some more and I will give you a workaround. Problems are solvable.
    Last edited by mmocc836e66a65; 2016-10-18 at 06:06 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Set up a special area in every US Post Office and make them available during all weekday hours and on Saturday. Like I said, every counter argument to Voter ID is complete bullshit.
    Until there's any attempt to actually do that, you can't bring it up to defend voter ID laws in their current form.

    And in case you were wondering why North Carolina's voter ID law was struck down--

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...-black-voters/

    North Carolina’s bill extended beyond requiring a state-issued photo ID at the polls. The law cut early voting days and banned same-day voter registration, eliminated straight-ticket voting, which allows voters to choose all candidates from a single party by checking one box; and introduced more restrictions on casting provisional ballots. It prohibited pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds, who previously were allowed to indicate their intent to vote when applying for a driver’s license. The law also allowed for more poll watchers and made it easier to challenge voters or their ballots.

    The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

    Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”

  18. #18
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    No, all arguments against Voter ID are bullshit.

    I just gave you a very workable example for how to issue them. I also advocate that they should be FREE to qualified recipients.

    Post some more and I will give you a workaround. Problems are solvable.
    no shutting down discussion is bullshit. which is what your doing. saying that there isn't any valid counterargument and your not gonna listen is acting like a 8 year old and going "lalalala i can't hear you!" it is the most childish form of discussion there is.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    no shutting down discussion is bullshit. which is what your doing. saying that there isn't any valid counterargument and your not gonna listen is acting like a 8 year old and going "lalalala i can't hear you!" it is the most childish form of discussion there is.
    LOL, whatever - you going to any more arguments that we can "discuss" or are you just going to denigrate? You haven;t even made a counter-argument. And I certainly am not "your not gonna listen is acting like a 8 year old and going "lalalala i can't hear you!" - I am offering workable solutions to bullshit arguments.
    Last edited by mmocc836e66a65; 2016-10-18 at 06:35 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    No, all arguments against Voter ID are bullshit.

    I just gave you a very workable example for how to issue them. I also advocate that they should be FREE to qualified recipients.

    Post some more and I will give you a workaround. Problems are solvable.
    The only argument that matters is that these laws are only propossed to disenfranchise, and suppress turnout. The people have literally admitted that it's all about politics. Hypothetically no one would have much of a problem with ID, it sounds reasonable on paper, but it's purpose is always to make it harder for people to vote for Democrats. This is just a fact, and if you disagree there is nothing at all to talk about.

    *edit* Yet to see a post about the actual OP btw...
    Last edited by Fabray; 2016-10-18 at 06:31 AM.

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