Resto druid relics.

[lockedout]

Ilvl of relic or ability it has. Which matters more?

[theburned]

I would say trait is worth up to 3 ilvls on weapon.

[Deleted]

I have mana regen on all three relics, and i dont think i will be changing them anytime soon. But that is the only trait i would take over ilvl i think.

[Alltat]

Item level > > how pretty the icon is > > what it actually does.


None of the traits you can actually get on a relic are good enough to be worth giving up spell power over. Even the ones that seem quite nice, like +1 second on Rejuvenation or increased HoT healing, really only amount to +1% healing at best. More mana is nice, but all it really lets you do is cast a few more Rejuvenations, and that can't really compete with having all of your spells heal for more.

If you could get a relic that gives you +1 to Nature's Vigor (Rejuvenation healing) or Nature's Essence (Wild Growth healing) then use that regardless of item level, but right now there are no such relics in the game.

[lockedout]

Item level > > how pretty the icon is > > what it actually does.


None of the traits you can actually get on a relic are good enough to be worth giving up spell power over. Even the ones that seem quite nice, like +1 second on Rejuvenation or increased HoT healing, really only amount to +1% healing at best. More mana is nice, but all it really lets you do is cast a few more Rejuvenations, and that can't really compete with having all of your spells heal for more.

If you could get a relic that gives you +1 to Nature's Vigor (Rejuvenation healing) or Nature's Essence (Wild Growth healing) then use that regardless of item level, but right now there are no such relics in the game.

This is what I thought as well just wanted others opinions.

[Deleted]

As Alltat mentioned, ilvl is currently the most important when looking at relics.

However, if you have two relics of same item level, these are some of the best traits:
Grovewalker - Increase all over time healing.
Knowledge of the ancients - Increases mana regeneration.
Persistence - Increase duration of Rejuvenation.

[theburned]

Item level > > how pretty the icon is > > what it actually does.

None of the traits you can actually get on a relic are good enough to be worth giving up spell power over. Even the ones that seem quite nice, like +1 second on Rejuvenation or increased HoT healing, really only amount to +1% healing at best. More mana is nice, but all it really lets you do is cast a few more Rejuvenations, and that can't really compete with having all of your spells heal for more.

but 3 weapon ilvls -> 1% increase in healing....
so having a trait that is 1% stronger than other weak traits means its worth up to 3 ilvls.

[Tomali]

The mana regen trait is deceiving on how much it might actually help you. Over a 3 minute fight, 2% increased regen turns into only enough mana to cast 1.5 rejuvs. Grovewalker, Persistence, and Knowledge of the ancients are still the best, but none of these are worth an ilv decrease. Even if in a perfect world one of these points turns into a theoretical 1% increase to healing, the spell power is significantly more versatile and will be a more reliable increase in healing.

[theburned]

The mana regen trait is deceiving on how much it might actually help you. Over a 3 minute fight, 2% increased regen turns into only enough mana to cast 1.5 rejuvs. Grovewalker, Persistence, and Knowledge of the ancients are still the best, but none of these are worth an ilv decrease. Even if in a perfect world one of these points turns into a theoretical 1% increase to healing, the spell power is significantly more versatile and will be a more reliable increase in healing.

edit: just removed a paragraph which was made due to frustration due to your ignorance

For me dropping 1 ilvl means Im losing out on 115 int, my total int is at 36,7k so by dropping this ilvl I lose out on 0,3% of my healing easy maths 115/36,7k. you could argue that im losing out on a few crit/mastery but dont tell me those 10 rating is going to make a massive difference.

As for persistence, checking out logs for cenarius rejuvs are doing 20-40% of people's healing, now this is not counting in cultivation or anything either, that longer rejuvs might help out with. Eitherway persistence add 1 sec to a rejuv which should be more than 5% of increase to its healing 1/18 = 5.5%. Now worst case scenario here, we take those 20% of total healing rejuvs and multiply them with 5% to get a 1% boost, now this is the worst case scenario, then you have regular cases where its 25%-30% or higher. and we are looking at 1.5% boosts and 2% boosts, ofc this is starting to be an outlier in terms of boss etc, but in most cases its safe to assume 20% of your healing comes from rejuv.

Now ofc you are replacing a relic aswell, its value is highly dependant on the trait, but lets say blessing of the world tree, 3.3% increase to regrowth and HT, but assuming those stand for 5% of your healing, thats a 0.15% boost. So swapping out my worst trait for my best trait has a value at around 0.9% (most likely more due to how much rejuv is doing of total healing.) vs a 0.3% boost pr ilvl on weapon. Hmm I crazy to say that it looks like the value of changing a trait gives me roughly 3* as much power as boosting the ilvl of my weapon by 1, you might even say that its roughly the same as boosting it by 3 ilvls. So no! ilvl on weapon is not everything, getting a much better trait can mean that 860 relic is not really better than that 850 relic, and it definitely means that the 850 frostwyrm heart is not better than an 845 quarantine catalyst as demonstrated in my example.

[lockedout]

edit: just removed a paragraph which was made due to frustration due to your ignorance

For me dropping 1 ilvl means Im losing out on 115 int, my total int is at 36,7k so by dropping this ilvl I lose out on 0,3% of my healing easy maths 115/36,7k. you could argue that im losing out on a few crit/mastery but dont tell me those 10 rating is going to make a massive difference.

As for persistence, checking out logs for cenarius rejuvs are doing 20-40% of people's healing, now this is not counting in cultivation or anything either, that longer rejuvs might help out with. Eitherway persistence add 1 sec to a rejuv which should be more than 5% of increase to its healing 1/18 = 5.5%. Now worst case scenario here, we take those 20% of total healing rejuvs and multiply them with 5% to get a 1% boost, now this is the worst case scenario, then you have regular cases where its 25%-30% or higher. and we are looking at 1.5% boosts and 2% boosts, ofc this is starting to be an outlier in terms of boss etc, but in most cases its safe to assume 20% of your healing comes from rejuv.

Now ofc you are replacing a relic aswell, its value is highly dependant on the trait, but lets say blessing of the world tree, 3.3% increase to regrowth and HT, but assuming those stand for 5% of your healing, thats a 0.15% boost. So swapping out my worst trait for my best trait has a value at around 0.9% (most likely more due to how much rejuv is doing of total healing.) vs a 0.3% boost pr ilvl on weapon. Hmm I crazy to say that it looks like the value of changing a trait gives me roughly 3* as much power as boosting the ilvl of my weapon by 1, you might even say that its roughly the same as boosting it by 3 ilvls. So no! ilvl on weapon is not everything, getting a much better trait can mean that 860 relic is not really better than that 850 relic, and it definitely means that the 850 frostwyrm heart is not better than an 845 quarantine catalyst as demonstrated in my example.

Well your math is wrong. Not going to go over all of it but it's not a 3 to 1 ratio as you claim.

[theburned]

Well your math is wrong. Not going to go over all of it but it's not a 3 to 1 ratio as you claim.

Feel free to point out anything at all, because you seem to have absolutely nothing apart from "you're wrong because I say so"

[Cheze]

imo the only relic trait worth taking over a relic that's an ilvl up is grovewalker (nature's vigor and essence are both one point traits that presumably will never have relics associated with them.) Persistence I think probably isn't a worthwhile choice considering relics can't easily be swapped on fights where the extra duration would be fully utilized.

It varies based on fight and talents, but heals affected by grovewalker (rejuv/cult, WG, LB) usually account for about 2/3s of my healing done in raids (more in five mans considering germination.) So would I rather have ~.66% healing done, or 115 int and a bit of rating? Without having done deep math on it I think you'd rather have the % hot healing, especially since that'll scale better as your ilvl increases elsewhere.

that's an edge case though; in the vast majority you prefer ilvl over trait.

[Tomali]

edit: just removed a paragraph which was made due to frustration due to your ignorance

I am not arguing that persistence might be a theoretical throughput increase to taking persistence over a 3ilv boost. Practically speaking, however, I do not think it helps nearly as much as you think it does. What percentage of the last 2-3 ticks of a rejuv go into overheal? I'm willing to bet it is a huge amount. A 1% increase to all of your healing always, no matter what the situation, is inherently more valuable than a slightly higher increase where you only receive the benefit a smaller percentage of the time.

To use your example of rejuv usually healing for 30% of overall healing, a 5% boost to rejuv would turn into a 1.5% increase (.3*.05) to theoretical healing tacked on to the end of the cast. This does not factor overheal. If half of the last ticks turn into overheal, taking a 1% boost would be better. The question here is what percentage of overheal are the last ticks of rejuv in a fight? If the overheal on rejuv's last tick is 33% or more (making the boost effectively 1%), the the relic ilv wins out or is equal. I'm not even considering the minor trait on the higher ilv wep.

With this in mind, I guess you could say that Grovewalker might be worth taking over 3ilv taking overheal into account.

[Alltat]

imo the only relic trait worth taking over a relic that's an ilvl up is grovewalker

Keep in mind that Grovewalker is additive with itself. Going from 103% HoT healing to 104% HoT healing is not a full 1% increase to healing done.