Why the reluctance to buff DK?

[RuneDK]

You guys complaining about the state of the class need to reroll already. Does it suck...absolutely. But I've had more fun playing other classes than my DK now. 8i don't even care about the damage anymore. The class is just not fun to play. Mobility being one of those reasons. I'm shelving the dk for good until it's actually fixed.

We're still suffering for the broken state we released in, or they've completely lost sight of what they want this class to be. Look at every spec performing under what all of ours is. Then look again and realize EVERY class has an option better than all three of ours. I've been playing this class for seven years now. To say I'm tired of this constantly being an issue with the class is a giant understatement.

[Deleted]

i like the play style of both unholy and frost, but the mobility is just terrible! speaking from a pvp pov, we just have no hope vs ranged classes, i'd like to see some improvements on that front. unholy and frost really need the pvp talent that gives death grip 2 charges, and the one that makes death grip slow the target

[Poisongaz]

I thought the reason why frost is beating unholy is mythic EN is because of the large disparity between the logs. Since there are more unholy dks raiding mythic than frost, the avg of unholy will go down when compared to the frost results. I don't know if this was true, but since unholy is beating frost in heroic (where more dks are playing frost) that just about confirms the data. I could be totally wrong though, I don't even know why frost would be beating unholy in mythic in the first place. Does frost really outscale unholy this time around?

It is actually because all of the mythic fights have some sort of aoe cleave that needs to be dealt with and frost is way better at that than frost.

[Deleted]

and the one that makes death grip slow the target

I'm no PVP expert, my PVP experience in Legion is pretty much 2 wins a week for a random piece of gear, but don't Artifact Traits work in PVP arenas and BGs? Because if they do...

[Deleted]

I'm no PVP expert, my PVP experience in Legion is pretty much 2 wins a week for a random piece of gear, but don't Artifact Traits work in PVP arenas and BGs? Because if they do...

isn't that the blood artifact? im talking about unholy and frost. if that is a trait and i totally missed it, my apologies


edit : my bad, that is unholy trait, totally missed that somehow, that helps a lot...

[Elerubard]

It's unholy. It's also the absolute last trait you would take as a dps.

[aroth]

Just a minor counter-point here - if you're not in immediate danger of dying that is exactly what you should be doing. If you're doing progression/challenging content, having just enough mitigation to survive and putting the remaining effort into DPS is a valid and effective strategy.

I do agree with you that Blood is at a disadvantage right now compared to other tank classes and could use some tweaks, but it's still good enough to clear the current mythic raid tier and push into higher m+.

Yeah but as a general rule, no tank spec will ever "blow up the meters" when compared to a DPS spec. I almost never see myself above the DPS on a mythic dungeon run, and most of the time both of our tanks (DH and DK) for Heroic EN are below all but one or two of the DPS. I don't play close attention to my damage meters when I am tanking but I wanna say im averaging about 150k on single target fights as blood, which is still better than some similarly geared warlocks and the occasional frost mage or elemental shaman. Now on trash pulls or heavy cleave I have pulled upwards of 3-400k as blood. Our aoe as a tank is fucking strong.

[Rhyxus]

Playing Frost since early Cataclysm and i don't care about how "bad" the spec is right now;
but is frustrating to be declined on every M+ i try to join (except when i bring my key to be carried).

My friends got a spot for me in a N/HC group with 15 people and, as Frost, on every fight i can keep myself in top 5...
The spec is "broken"? Yes. But bad people with good class/spec won't shine either.

Yup, heroic EN pigs and high mythic + groups are starting to not accept dk applications anymore. I literally have to link my achieved and logs inorder to get invited only to hold my own and sometimes lead in overall dps. The game is so "bring the spec not the player" it's pathetic really. So sick of out damaging trash mages and hunters but still struggling to get that auto invite those other specs get just because they are "OP"

This.

[hellhamster]

you guys complaining about the state of the class need to reroll already. Does it suck...absolutely. But i've had more fun playing other classes than my dk now. 8i don't even care about the damage anymore. The class is just not fun to play. Mobility being one of those reasons. I'm shelving the dk for good until it's actually fixed.

We're still suffering for the broken state we released in, or they've completely lost sight of what they want this class to be. Look at every spec performing under what all of ours is. Then look again and realize every class has an option better than all three of ours. I've been playing this class for seven years now. To say i'm tired of this constantly being an issue with the class is a giant understatement.

ttttttrrrrraaaaaiiittttoooooooooooorrr

[Snackwiches]

Season 5 DK.
Not even joking.
DK must suffer for S5, blizz balance team is fucktarded and very prone to vengeance see shaman.


Reminder that DK will get no fixes (denote the word FIX and not "buff", DK would be top damage if it got something like an extra mastery along the lines of something stupid IE "The lich king will: You deal +20% damage and get 20%+ bonus AP" it'd do top damage but none of the issues (rotation being rng hell for uhdk, frost default package having no scaling, no mobility, no dr cd on blood)).

If you like DK you only have 2 real options.
A) Reroll because you like wow
B) Leave because you like DK

I think it's less about vengeance and more about the developers clearly have favorites. This isn't to say they hate any of the classes but it's more than obvious that some are just favored, get more attention, more utility, more perks. It's a lot more obvious in this game than any other I've tried.

[Deleted]

Playing Frost since early Cataclysm and i don't care about how "bad" the spec is right now;
but is frustrating to be declined on every M+ i try to join (except when i bring my key to be carried).

How about you ... I don't know ... make your own group?

Almost every mythic+ group has tens of dps sign up. If you were the leader, you'd also pick a team that brings everything to the table you want for your particular level. It's just that as a DK, we bring none of what is valued highly in mythic+ (No aoe stuns, no BL, etc).
Our grips are great, and every group I've been in has noted how much my grips trivialize some trash packs (HoV, BRH, NL, etc), it's just that they're not valued as highly as an aoe stun, and that's understandable.

[RuneDK]

ttttttrrrrraaaaaiiittttoooooooooooorrr

Being Enhance with an Ilvl 840 and outdamaging my dk who is mid 850s on top of having a charge, instant 30% movement speed that is toggleable and a 60% sprint that lasts 8 seconds on a 60 second timer. I'd love to still main my dk but three expansions now of constantly the same problems but now they've completely taken what little passive mobility we had and gave us a completely inferior on use....yea I'm good.

[Kerathyl]

Kinda sucks how most other melee bring equal or better damage while also bringing an AoE stun and having better mobility.

[Zetsumai258i]

Being Enhance with an Ilvl 840 and outdamaging my dk who is mid 850s on top of having a charge, instant 30% movement speed that is toggleable and a 60% sprint that lasts 8 seconds on a 60 second timer. I'd love to still main my dk but three expansions now of constantly the same problems but now they've completely taken what little passive mobility we had and gave us a completely inferior on use....yea I'm good.

Don't you get scared Boulderfist doesn't become the optimal talent and then you have to spam Rockbiter all the time...I have the same issue with Demon Blades on DH.

Another major issue is that Arms and Retribution are in such good shape that top guilds are not even bothered having DKs for plate DPS. This wasn't the case in the beginning since Unholy was regarded as strong and it was rightfully so before scaling issues were found out.

Warriors provide Commanding Shout and Retribution provides Lay on Hands on top of their superior (10%+ generally) DPS.

If the 7.1 notes come through with only the 3% buff for Unholy I would recommend everyone to re-roll at this point or quit. It's ridiculous how Blizzard promised balance within 5% of the classes while there is currently 20% differences among the top and bottom specs and then insult us with a 3% buff. On top of the increasing RNG in gearing up where not getting a best in slot legendary puts you behind 15% on those who have it on top of adding titan-forged trinkets/gear into the mix.

Blizzard definitely catering towards the larger casual player-base in Legion so far but it seems they are forgetting how having a competitive environment within the game actually attracts more casual players i.e. League Of Legends.

[Deleted]

I think it's less about vengeance and more about the developers clearly have favorites. This isn't to say they hate any of the classes but it's more than obvious that some are just favored, get more attention, more utility, more perks. It's a lot more obvious in this game than any other I've tried.

Favoritism leads into vindictive nerfs/buffs.

[Deleted]

Kinda sucks how most other melee bring equal or better damage while also bringing an AoE stun and having better mobility.

most? who doesnt?

[0verdose]

Don't you get scared Boulderfist doesn't become the optimal talent and then you have to spam Rockbiter all the time...I have the same issue with Demon Blades on DH.

Another major issue is that Arms and Retribution are in such good shape that top guilds are not even bothered having DKs for plate DPS. This wasn't the case in the beginning since Unholy was regarded as strong and it was rightfully so before scaling issues were found out.

Warriors provide Commanding Shout and Retribution provides Lay on Hands on top of their superior (10%+ generally) DPS.

If the 7.1 notes come through with only the 3% buff for Unholy I would recommend everyone to re-roll at this point or quit. It's ridiculous how Blizzard promised balance within 5% of the classes while there is currently 20% differences among the top and bottom specs and then insult us with a 3% buff. On top of the increasing RNG in gearing up where not getting a best in slot legendary puts you behind 15% on those who have it on top of adding titan-forged trinkets/gear into the mix.

Blizzard definitely catering towards the larger casual player-base in Legion so far but it seems they are forgetting how having a competitive environment within the game actually attracts more casual players i.e. League Of Legends.

Yeah you're right, leagues balance team is miles ahead of and better than blizzards team. There are always nessesary buffs and nerfs going out with majority of the champions being fixed fairly quickly. Blizzards team literally pick all of the specs they play, have them do well and make all specs they don't play suck. That's what it feels like at least.

[Coldvibes]

The underlying reason why we scale like shit though is because of Mastery.

Mastery was repeatedly nerfed for both DPS specs because Blizzard didn't have the foresight to see that DKs would devolve into playstyles that are extremely degenerate. The prime example is back in late alpha-early beta UH DKs were literally doing nothing but CS+DC and only applying wounds for Apoc. The result of that was an extreme gutting of CS and a Feast of Souls/Mastery scaling nerf. They are hesitant to rebuff mastery because this exact problem will happen again.

The same goes with Frost, at some point in the beta Frost Mastery was nerfed by like 25% or something silly because we were slowly playing the masterfrost style again and Blizzard absolutely hamfisted Obliterate into the playstyle. No matter what, at some point down the line with Mastery we WILL be masterfrost'ing again unless Obliterate gets some form of armor pen or scaling with Frost damage.

Edit: This combined with the fact that Versatility is the last stat we can scale well off of, is the worst point-for-point value of all 4 secondary stats. We're already nearing the most we can get out of Crit, GCD capping already happens with SR+Memento procs... we just have nothing apart from acquiring gear with lots of strength on it.

[hellhamster]

I kinda understand Blizzard's position, they got themselves into a corner with the way they designed the specs, hence the need to constant keep watch over us and keep tuning/buffing us to stay competitive with other classes that actually scale properly.

However, there are some pretty easy solutions, like find a way to make mastery not be raw +damage, which is pretty lazy design to begin with.

[Deleted]

hence the need to constant keep watch over us and keep tuning/buffing us to stay competitive with other classes that actually scale properly.

I actually don't mind this, if they keep us competitive. Now, if only we could do it in a timely manner... Maybe with some more communication too, who knows...