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  1. #141
    I also would love to know if Blizzard specifically targeted Enemy Grid. If they did then that's sad because it means they expect us to play by tab targeting and clicking random shitty nameplates that can only be made better by installing another addon (tidyplates for example)... It would also mean we are probably never going to get an Enemy List

  2. #142
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Enemygrid did nothing with position date it was the nameplate functions added in 7.0
    Before that it was not possible to dynamically create interact-able UI elements based off nameplates.

    I would love to know why Blizzard specifically added these commands to the game in 7.0 only to remove them to (seemingly) specifically break enemygrid.
    #BlizzconPanelquestion
    If what you say is true, then they probably targeted this addon. I do wonder why, but perhaps it's an intended way to nerf shadow priests without actually nerfing them. But then again that would be stupid, since spriests aren't nerfed at all, it's just more annoying to play.

    If someone can, please ask them during Blizzcon. Perhaps worth getting a post on Blizzard forums about even. I want answers!

  3. #143
    it wasnt intended to create nameplates by addons

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleaa View Post
    it wasnt intended to create nameplates by addons
    Sometimes it is better to chew than to speak?
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Sometimes it is better to chew than to speak?
    Sometimes it is better to go out

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Starmind View Post
    My point is that this entire update could have been meant to target other addons, such as ERT/WA/DBM etc, especially LUA possibitilies, as top guilds nowadays are defined by how good their programmer is. Just take Archimonde for example. Some chinese guild and Paragon were the only ones doing it the intended way. Every other guild relied on their programmers (pottom's weakaura for Method for example). The fact that the guild with the better programmers do better than the guilds without could very well be what Blizzard tried to target with the update, and I completely agree with that. It's been a big issue for a long time now.

    However, there's nothing thus far implying that they actually wanted to fuck Enemygrid up. Perhaps they're not even aware that they did fuck it up by not allowing whichever variable Enemygrid used from the API. It's very unfortunate that they did, though.
    Ah that explains where your misconception comes from, you think Blizzard cares about the ladderboard of who killed their bosses first, only.
    Yes, that one is quite common and, yes they care somewhat (thus the change to what position data is available in instances), but in the end all those addons do is provide some extra information. They are not really necessary to enjoy the game. You can play without them and Blizzard does provide their own version of them.

    Now with the sorting of nameplates--that is something everyone needs to use. It is one of the most basic parts of the game, you cannot avoid it.
    And Blizzard cannot come up with an algorithm to accurately predict which nameplate will be most important to the individual players next--anymore than guessing "well they will want to see the boss, its mayor adds, etc.", but guess what? They provide those frames already.

    Thus since the addon is too basic and too powerful they needed to remove it to make it fair at a basic level, because they cannot provide an alternative.

    Do you remember the original decursive back in the Molten Core?
    That was the last time we had basically the same funcitionality just with name plates of raid members. Guess what? They broke it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Enemygrid did nothing with position date it was the nameplate functions added in 7.0
    Before that it was not possible to dynamically create interact-able UI elements based off nameplates.

    I would love to know why Blizzard specifically added these commands to the game in 7.0 only to remove them to (seemingly) specifically break enemygrid.
    #BlizzconPanelquestion
    I guess they were hoping someone would come up with a good algorithm for sorting nameplates that was just a little better than what they came up with, then they could have copied that one or left it be, instead someone came up with the other answer: "It is impossible to solve on the client side of things so present it to the user and let them do it" or in other words: "Make a table (grid)."
    Unfortunately they cannot use that solution as it is a step in the wrong direction for their current design policy ("less ui, more immersion").

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleaa View Post
    it wasnt intended to create nameplates by addons
    It was. It was intended to create nameplates with individual sorting, not a table (grid) of targetframes (which is a form of sorting--somehow they might have missed that fact).

  7. #147
    Decursive was broken because it removed the need to target at all. Pressing 1 button dispelled a random raid member who had a dispellable debuff.
    On fights like Lucifron you just spammed your auto targeting decursive button all fight long while wearing a blindfold.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Decursive was broken because it removed the need to target at all. Pressing 1 button dispelled a random raid member who had a dispellable debuff.
    On fights like Lucifron you just spammed your auto targeting decursive button all fight long while wearing a blindfold.
    Yes, and after they broke it the first time someone clever came up with the version where it moved target frames in place so you could always click at the same spot and dispell the next one in line. That one never really left the PTR because they immideately catched it.
    Since then you couldn't modify target frames in combat anymore which is no a problem after a disconnect infight that all raid frames have--ever wondered why that problem is still around? Because it is there by design to break a specific addon. It was created to break an addon.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2016-11-01 at 12:53 PM.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    It was. It was intended to create nameplates with individual sorting, not a table (grid) of targetframes (which is a form of sorting--somehow they might have missed that fact).
    EnemyGrid create secure unit frame with nameplate token not a nameplate frame itself. Nameplate that player can click is internal part of the game, not external (lua addons). It happens because blizzard add nameplate token to gather info about.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    What other addon played with nameplates in the same way?

    DBM/ERT didnt play with nameplates, it got purposefully targetted by the position data change.
    WA doesnt play with nameplates as far as I know.

    Was there any other addon that generated interact-able enemy nameplates then Enemygrid?
    ERT did "play with nameplates" (if I understand you correctly) in a limited sense... Mythic Gorefiend and the Corrupted Souls ring a bell?

    And, yes, besides (and prior to) Enemy Grid, there was iTargetting Frames. https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/itargetingframes

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Decursive was broken because it removed the need to target at all. Pressing 1 button dispelled a random raid member who had a dispellable debuff.
    On fights like Lucifron you just spammed your auto targeting decursive button all fight long while wearing a blindfold.
    Well they changed the way dispels worked awhile ago (changing totems, etc). I think it was definitely targeted at enemy grid, although why I don't know.

  12. #152
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    The standard raid frames show dispellable debuffs pretty well IMO. I ended up ditching decursive because I liked the added benefit of knowing WHO i was dispelling. The decursive "raid frames" were just color square with little info. You could probably guess who it was but I didnt want to take the time to figure out which of the 3 pink squares was our Hpally and not the ret or tank.
    Symmone of Seraph - Mal'Ganis

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  13. #153
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Ah that explains where your misconception comes from, you think Blizzard cares about the ladderboard of who killed their bosses first, only.
    Yes, that one is quite common and, yes they care somewhat (thus the change to what position data is available in instances), but in the end all those addons do is provide some extra information. They are not really necessary to enjoy the game. You can play without them and Blizzard does provide their own version of them.
    Not sure if you're arguing for the sake of arguing, but yes, Blizzard cares a great deal about raiding and top end guilds. It's one of the very few competitive aspects of this game. Nowhere in my post did I say that they only care about the very top end guilds, but it is a huge deal that top guilds are defined by how skilled their programmer is.

    Blizzard had to do something about it and unluckily they killed enemygrid while they were at it.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleaa View Post
    EnemyGrid create secure unit frame with nameplate token not a nameplate frame itself. Nameplate that player can click is internal part of the game, not external (lua addons). It happens because blizzard add nameplate token to gather info about.
    Yes, because it was intended to provide addons with the necessary tools to create name plates and modify the arrangment of said name plates.

    What are nameplates?
    Name plates are unit frames that use a special function to position them near the units they refer to and move around with those.
    What do you need to recreate them?
    A reference to the unit that you can interact with and take information from as well as a 2d (3d) position of the unit on the screen so you can change the arrangement of the unit frames instead of having the client do the positioning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Starmind View Post
    Not sure if you're arguing for the sake of arguing, but yes, Blizzard cares a great deal about raiding and top end guilds. It's one of the very few competitive aspects of this game. Nowhere in my post did I say that they only care about the very top end guilds, but it is a huge deal that top guilds are defined by how skilled their programmer is.

    Blizzard had to do something about it and unluckily they killed enemygrid while they were at it.
    Blizzard is well aware that professional raiding guilds write their own addons, and that addons are part of the appeal of WoW, it is when addons become a basic requirement for everyone who plays the game on any level that they step in and kill them, especially when they see no way to provider their own alternative.

    If they provide their own (limited) alternative, like they do for DBM etc. then they normally leave those addons alone.
    If it is something an additional person looking over your shoulder could do then they leave it alone, also. (All those DBM ability countdowns.)
    If not (range checkers) then they are likely to get rid of it.

  15. #155
    Tuning the game based on the top 1% of people raiding is a terrible idea.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Hankmarvin View Post
    ERT did "play with nameplates" (if I understand you correctly) in a limited sense... Mythic Gorefiend and the Corrupted Souls ring a bell?

    And, yes, besides (and prior to) Enemy Grid, there was iTargetting Frames. https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/itargetingframes
    The functionality that allowed Enemygrid to exist was not in the game before 7.0 so no, ERT could not have worked in the same way for Gorefiend.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Hankmarvin View Post
    And, yes, besides (and prior to) Enemy Grid, there was iTargetting Frames. https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/itargetingframes
    Just to be clear, although the initial iTragetingFrames release pre-dates Tercio's release of Enemy Grid, the add-ons were functionally equivalent. Both add-ons are similarly broken after the changes in 7.1.

    What I can't understand is why Blizzard added nameplate unit IDs in the first place? When I saw the change I assumed it was specifically so that we could build add-ons like these, or extend existing unit frame add-ons to support these new nameplate units much like we do now for boss unit IDs. I actually had this mostly added to VuhDo as well but just reverted all my changes once 7.1 API changes were announced.

    I am still scratching my head over this whole situation.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by elmoe420 View Post
    Just to be clear, although the initial iTragetingFrames release pre-dates Tercio's release of Enemy Grid, the add-ons were functionally equivalent. Both add-ons are similarly broken after the changes in 7.1.

    What I can't understand is why Blizzard added nameplate unit IDs in the first place? When I saw the change I assumed it was specifically so that we could build add-ons like these, or extend existing unit frame add-ons to support these new nameplate units much like we do now for boss unit IDs. I actually had this mostly added to VuhDo as well but just reverted all my changes once 7.1 API changes were announced.

    I am still scratching my head over this whole situation.
    The intention was for addon developers to implement their own sorting and arrangement algoritms for nameplates (there was a bluepost somewhere to that effect, if I remember correctly). They likely didn't think of the most obvious arrangement: A Grid filled at random (arrangement but no sorting).

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The functionality that allowed Enemygrid to exist was not in the game before 7.0 so no, ERT could not have worked in the same way for Gorefiend.
    I didn't write it worked in the same way... I wrote "in a limited sense."

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    The intention was for addon developers to implement their own sorting and arrangement algoritms for nameplates (there was a bluepost somewhere to that effect, if I remember correctly). They likely didn't think of the most obvious arrangement: A Grid filled at random (arrangement but no sorting).
    Going along this line of reasoning, they likely changed it because of a potential misuse of it outside of what enemygrid was already doing. Most likely the grid of nameplates wasn't an issue but a potential addon that could have severely trivialized things was most likely thought of and they just nipped it in the bud.

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