Fire holinka!!!!

[Grym]

But the costs of the base game and/or xpacs should be pro-rated or free when they keep fucking up the game.

While it does happen in exceptional circumstances, I don't recall you can generally go get refund from PC games just because you think it's shit.

[Caolela]

While it does happen in exceptional circumstances, I don't recall you can generally go get refund from PC games just because you think it's shit.

When you must pay a sub or can't use what you've bought, they get the mentality that they can do whatever they want. At least with other non-sub games, like them or not you can still use them or others can but you don't have to keep paying.

IMO, F2P is all WoW is worth anymore. That's why I don't sub atm and only play my 20s.

Then there's this: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...96586338418688

You read that right - the person in charge of class design plays World of Warcraft on a tablet. 'Nuf said.

[Super Kami Dende]

Because you can't use the product you paid for that was at some point decent and may have a lot of money into, unless you pay the sub; meanwhile that product keeps getting turned to shit.

I didn't say refund subs - if you don't sub you don't play that's fine. But the costs of the base game and/or xpacs should be pro-rated or free when they keep fucking up the game. If you don't like it you unsub and haven't lost any other money. Blizz can then keep borking it and losing players, or they can learn how to make games for players again, not solely for profiting the shareholders and execs.

That isn't hard to understand.

I mean, I guess if you can understand stupidity. Because goddamn.

[Caolela]

I mean, I guess if you can understand stupidity. Because goddamn.

What's stupid is anyone that paid full shot for Legion in the first place, and didn't learn the lesson from WoD. For PvP, there were months of non-responses from devs and the whole horrible design was there for all to see in alpha/beta. Much of this current mess was predicted by myself and a few others here.

FYI I didn't buy WoD until last Dec. when it was $12.50 (even that was too much), and haven't bought Legion. Others got suckered who should have known better.

[Super Kami Dende]

What's stupid is anyone that paid full shot for Legion in the first place, and didn't learn the lesson from WoD. For PvP, there were months of non-responses from devs and the whole horrible design was there for all to see in alpha/beta. Much of this current mess was predicted by myself and a few others here.

FYI I didn't buy WoD until last Dec. when it was $12.50 (even that was too much), and haven't bought Legion. Others got suckered who should have known better.

Or people like different things to you and find Legion to be a great expansion worth the Money.

But I mean, here you are complaining about the Gameplay and PvP in Legion yet say you don't even own it.

Your opinion on the current state of the game is pretty much null and void right there.

[Luko]

Pvp complaining threads. Always a good source of well thought out, wide-perspective solutions.

[Imurbandaid]

I like this thread because im really confused as to why I got a pvp int with vers on use effect trinket from a BG and I cant use the on use effect in BGs for. Shit like that makes me really confused about what they do with pvp, why even have the on use effect on said trinket?

[Caolela]

Or people like different things to you and find Legion to be a great expansion worth the Money.

But I mean, here you are complaining about the Gameplay and PvP in Legion yet say you don't even own it.

Your opinion on the current state of the game is pretty much null and void right there.

My opinion is as valid as yours or anyone's, because one doesn't need to have wasted the money or one minute in Legion to know what utter shit it is. It's quite obvious.

[Super Kami Dende]

My opinion is as valid as yours or anyone's, because one doesn't need to have wasted the money or one minute in Legion to know what utter shit it is. It's quite obvious.

Well no, you opinion isn't Valid because you aren't playing it. Enough said. Move along.

[A dot Ham]

The game needs constructive criticism. Not irrational reaction like this. Besides, Holinka is not alone and design is a collegial process. How many times it must be repeated?

I love how you guys just hang on to these [words] and don't digest them at all.

What does that statement mean and how does it benefit Blizzard?

If the community actually believes that, and I would say a good portion do, it means there is zero accountability. Its the same fucking song ghostcrawler used to sing, despite the fact that he headed the projects to create LFR and the homogenization of existing classes (both widely hated by the community).

None of the now ex-blizzard employees really say anything bad about Blizzard. But they DO say things... you have to read between the lines, but it is clear that dissenting opinions are not often welcome. So for arguments sake... lets say Holinka spearheaded the project that changed PvP rewards into a 2 part system. People who work(ed) with him on the project are not likely to tell him outright that the project needs to be scrapped. They will help him make the cockamimi idea as best as it can be... but not tell him its a bad idea.

Now to be fair... spearheading a project... doesn't necessarily mean it was/is their idea. It could simply be a project assigned to them to complete and to perform and to build a team necessary to complete said project.

That all being said. This 2 part system is garbage. I didn't think the old system needed a change. It had solid rewards for the average joe, and it had good rewards for those that performed well. If THAT system needed more rewards for the average joe... it could have easily been added and not required a revamp.

The new system has turned people away from PvP in droves. Both because it is confusing and inefficient.

In any game people are either driven to or away from content based on the rewards for participating/completing. That being said, rational people will ALWAYS choose the path of the least resistance. We have seen a huge decrease in PvP participation in Legion. Now it IS possible that alternative forms of gearing are simply TOO easy.

At this point we have 2 options, that will drive participation to PvP.
(1) Increase the ease/intuitiveness of the rewarding PvP system
(2) Decrease the ease of gearing from other sources WQ, Raids, Mythics, etc.

Finally as a last note, while 7.1 included useful information and some changes to improve the quality of life for PvPers... it went about it completely the wrong way.

The prestige system (modeled after Call of Duty) only works when each tier has compelling and competitive alternatives. If there is a clear and better choice it will ALWAYS be picked. If that talent/ability gives a huge competitive advantage people are unlikely to proceed in the PvP system or the prestige system for the rewards of actually ranking up prestige (as we have seen). (again fail 2 part system)

The only way this Prestige System works for WoW is to essentially have subclasses. Think of how prestige works and your rewards on the way to cap. The make you a better sniper. The make you an annoying nube tuber. They make you an assault/smg guru etc. For wow you need to be prepared (and have a design in mind) for different playstyles which means significant and viable rotation changes within a given class. A quick example would be a DH focusing more on their demonic power/abilities and chaos damage... vs a heavy melee powerhouse. The trick is making both viable.

Another example would be tanks. Have clear design objectives to have say a Protection Warrior choose talents within a given tier to focus either on Tankiness, Utility, or raw power, as tank PvPers usually do so for various different reasons.


What was attempted in Legion with PvP is/was admirable and worthwhile. It was also ambitious. To maintain that system it requires more than simply tuning up ability A in increments of 5% and tuning down ability B in increments of 5%. We need to look at specific abilities and toolsets and how the fits into the design/function of the class/role.

[Caolela]

Well no, you opinion isn't Valid because you aren't playing it. Enough said. Move along.

Neither does their Lead dev but on a tablet. He's the one who should move along.

Tell me, have they changed character mechanics or the way they move or respond? Anything you'd have to try in-game to notice? They haven't in lower levels and it's no different at max.

Not hard to figure out that RNG and templates and the rest sucks. No one has to play a BG or arena in Legion to know that.

[Waltzinblack]

that's why i don't sub atm and only play my 20s.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh god are you serious

[Snackwiches]

Please do not unironically say fail in this manner.

[Thirstblood]

Have hotlinka being hanged in public would be satisfying for me, reveal his face of suffering while i fap.

[Cæli]

I think it's better to be constructive.
Yes the pvp reward system is bad. I like prestige though.

But the system should be improved even more. Get rid of those damn 100/40 wins achi for god's sake. And those 27k points achi, it's not even a real feat of strength.

In my opinion what pvp players want is:
gear
fun
entertainment
challenge

gear : I have no solution. but maybe an upgrade system would be better, like obliterum ? dunno really
fun : add dozens of consumables either utility or prestigious cosmetic (not toys, no infinite use) usable in arena . guess why so many players are using tmorph ?
entertainment : it's the class gameplay, I can't say
challenge : keep rated but add more prestige to those who are good, add ladder in game, make the realm show who are the actual pvp gods in the realm, make them famous in the realm, create a hall of fame for the top players or something and give a lot of TEMPORARY stuff (not only title) to show off during a whole season. those 4 arena title are boring, the only one thing worth it is the gladiator title but it's so little I don't understand, system is the same since BC

[Caolela]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh god are you serious

I'll bet I'm more serious than:


Lead Class Developer Celestalon <-> PvP <-> Wacom tablet


See anything remotely wrong with that picture?

------

Maybe you can explain why someone who has played at max levels previously like myself has to play at 110 in Legion instead of 100, 60, 39, 20 or whatever to realize what they did with Legion PvP is shit? Most abilities perform the same (except numbers and some CDs, etc.), my toons all move and react the same as they did in other xpacs. But for 2 new arenas the maps are the same.

What's changed are the rewards, the gearing, ability prune, the RNG grind...all of which you can see at <110. One glance at the collapsing ladders will tell you that.

Keep fanboying.

[Sam the Wiser]

He should be charged with Garrosh for his crimes against Azeroth.

[xskarma]

Pointless threads asking to fire people are not okay. Post more constructively next time.



CLOSED.