man arrested in an assault interrupting the molestation of a child

[kylarstern]

Oh but I have.

If for some reason you're getting excited at the idea of someone thinking that you're... not very bright. Or you're deriving some kind of pleasure from the pretty rational reaction of finding child molesters to blame for their own actions and contrarily that victims of sexual assault shouldn't be blamed for their own attacks, well, enjoy your stiffy chief. I suppose we all have to get our thrills where we can.

Which is not what I suggested. You seem incredibly sensitive to this subject and are seeing things that I have not posted. What I said was anyone who can't take care of themselves shouldn't be alone. That includes men as well. I didn't say women should form packs and travel together. A child/teenager isn't fully capable of taking care of themselves and should have a parent with them when in possibly dangerous situations. That is the purpose of a parent, to provide safety for a child. Hence why a parent is responsible for anything that happens to a child/teenager.

I am sensitive to children who are abused, I am indignant at weirdos who try to blame children for being abused. Good catch, impressed you were able to detect that, buried deep under the layers upon layers of subtext and connotations as it was /s. I'm not seeing things that you haven't posted, I'm responding to the things you have posted and expanding and extrapolating on them to demonstrate, how stupid they are. You said that the fact that this girl was groped means she can't take care of herself and travel alone. I pointed out that adults are attacked all the time, does this mean they can't take care of themselves or shouldn't travel alone? You never said " A child/teenager isn't fully capable of taking care of themselves and should have a parent with them when in possibly dangerous situations" until this moment, but even then, teenagers travel and take care of themselves all the time. Suggesting that say, a teenager is incapable of of taking a busy bus in the middle of the day when we offer, driving licences to kids at 16 (even younger in some places) is stupid. Especially when your only claim that she was incapable of taking care of herself is that a stranger touched her. If I touched you, would that mean that you weren't capable of taking care of yourself? Probably not right?

Only if found guilty with undeniable proof.

Like a broken hymen? Blood under the fingernails? Video on the internet? Semen on the clothes? How much exacting evidence would you require to ensure all but the sloppiest, least careful sex offenders walk, Captain Grey Area?

The bystander effect isn't limited to the posters of this website. Nice of you to insult everyone here though.

No shit, but here's where we find ourselves innit? I'm not worried about being nice, I've got friends. I don't particularly care what a bunch of anonymous strangers (especially given the tone of 90% of the threads here) on the internet think about me, do you? Did you wanna hang out later and get a beer or something?

Nice hyperbole but no. It is true that millions of transitions occur without incident, but all it takes is the right set of circumstances to align and you are the statistic. Your safest bet is to edge those odds. If you are a child/teen the best bet is to have an adult or avoid the situation of traveling alone altogether.

You ever hear of the journalistic expression "Man bites dog", Slick? It's basically this, in-ordinary events are more likely to be reported than ordinary events with similar results. You don't hear about every single case of molestation because they are - for lack of a better word - mundane. Kids get molested all the time in schools, camps, homes and churches but you don't read about it because it isn't reported and it isn't sensationalist. This story stands out because it contains: a good samaritan, a racial/police/political angle/, it was in the middle of the day, it was on a public bus, it was recorded. People eat up these stories because it is "sensational", and for people who rarely ever step out of their humble-burgs (shout out to Waycross!), it reaffirms every ill feeling they've ever held about the BIG BAD CITY. So if you've never been to the city, and the only place you get your news is from a site that's (allegedly) dedicated to WoW news and discussions, you might be mistaken for thinking that you have to walk your children everywhere, everyday until they turn 18 because on every bus, ferry and subway car is an insatiable sex offender waiting to shove his hands down someones pants. Do you work in a church group or something? You kind of sound like one of those people who visits highschools to talk about the dangers of drugs.

Again you seem to miss the part where I said "By all means blame the groper."

No, I didn't miss it, you added it as an afterthought and have spent the majority of your time ranting about the dangers of buses, and daylight, and teenagers, and where were the parents and why weren't they with her and what was their relationship like. It's right up there with "I'm not a racist buuuuuuuuuuuutt......"

So your argument ends with name calling? How mature.....

Naw, I reckon I had about 3 more sentences after that one mate. It's funny, you being suddenly concerned with maturity given how much time you've given to infantilizing people who are victims of crimes.

Also this argument further proves my own. If grown women get groped, imagine what could happen to little children.

What are you even talking about? We're having a discussion about sexual assault against adults teens and children, did that suddenly just occur to you? My entire point is that it's happening all the time and a lot closer to home than you seem to think, none of this means that teenagers shouldn't ride a bus until they're 20.

The thing is those women are adults who are normally capable of taking care of themselves, teens/children aren't.

What is the difference that exists in your mind between say, a 17 year old teen and a 19 year old adult that suddenly makes them hyper competent and capable in dealing with an unprovoked attack by a stranger who is larger than them?

[Templar 331]

I am sensitive to children who are abused,..........

Kids get molested all the time in schools, camps, homes and churches but you don't read about it because it isn't reported and it isn't sensationalist.

......right.......

If I touched you, would that mean that you weren't capable of taking care of yourself? Probably not right?

You seem to be missing the fact that this girl had to have a guy come in and rescue her. I myself wouldn't need it, but the girl needed a guardian and was luckily enough to have one step in. And it isn't what happens it's how you handle it afterwords. She was incapable stopping if from continuing.

Like a broken hymen? Blood under the fingernails? Video on the internet? Semen on the clothes? How much exacting evidence would you require

That'll about do it.

No shit, but here's where we find ourselves innit? I'm not worried about being nice, I've got friends. I don't particularly care what a bunch of anonymous strangers (especially given the tone of 90% of the threads here) on the internet think about me, do you? Did you wanna hang out later and get a beer or something?

And yet you're posting here and with such fervor, hence why I asked did I strike a nerve. If you don't care about being civil then you won't last too long. If you don't care about lasting too long then by all means excuse yourself.

Do you work in a church group or something?

Atheist.

You kind of sound like one of those people who visits highschools to talk about the dangers of drugs.

Drugs are bad M'kay.

What are you even talking about? We're having a discussion about sexual assault against adults teens and children, did that suddenly just occur to you? My entire point is that it's happening all the time and a lot closer to home than you seem to think, none of this means that teenagers shouldn't ride a bus until they're 20.

Right, so because it happens all the time we shouldn't be worried about it? Why stop kids from being alone on a bus when something bad is going to happen anyway, right? MY entire point is that because those things could happen children/teens should be protected until they are able to protect themselves. Is that really a foreign concept to you? Do you not want parents to take care of their children?

What is the difference that exists in your mind between say, a 17 year old teen and a 19 year old adult that suddenly makes them hyper competent and capable in dealing with an unprovoked attack by a stranger who is larger than them?

Seeing as the girl was 15 and incapable of saving herself, I'd say that doesn't really matter in this case.

[kylarstern]

......right.......

Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha moment or something? If so, you wanna try explaining it so that that it actually makes sense? Or just continue with the vague ellipsis as evidence that you truly have nothing to say here? Before you bother to try, let me break it down into the simplest possible terms for you, in the hopes that you can parse it. Sexual violence against children upsets me. Sexual violence and exploitation of children, is everywhere. Talking about the realities of sexual violence against children and hating sexual violence against children, is not mutually exclusive. Okay, now you go.

You seem to be missing the fact that this girl had to have a guy come in and rescue her. I myself wouldn't need it, but the girl needed a guardian and was luckily enough to have one step in. And it isn't what happens it's how you handle it afterwords. She was incapable stopping if from continuing.

I'm not missing it, it's irrelevant. If someone comes out of alley and you don't see them and hits you in the head with a bat, that's you screwed. It doesn't mean you should have been walking in pairs, it's not your fault for not having a guardian. Which I've already established, multiple times by pointing out that assaults happen to fully developed adults, all the time. The problem isn't teens on the bus, the problem is sex offenders on the bus.

That'll about do it.

Cool, so you'll let the guys walk who groom and intimidate kids into keeping quiet for lack of evidence beyond the testimony of the victim? Good thing you're just some guy on the internet and not a judge or in charge of anything important.

And yet you're posting here and with such fervor, hence why I asked did I strike a nerve. If you don't care about being civil then you won't last too long. If you don't care about lasting too long then by all means excuse yourself.

Oh god this is such a boring retort, you're responding, I'm responding. GOOD ONE! Who gives a shit?

Atheist.

Ohh, a freethinker! /s

Right, so because it happens all the time we shouldn't be worried about it? Why stop kids from being alone on a bus when something bad is going to happen anyway, right? MY entire point is that because those things could happen children/teens should be protected until they are able to protect themselves. Is that really a foreign concept to you? Do you not want parents to take care of their children?

There's "being worried" and then there's suggesting that 10's of millions of teenagers around the world need to stop busing to school or walking to the store alone because you read one story about a girl getting molested on bus. That working parents everywhere should re-arrange their entire schedules to accompany their kids everywhere because of this one case. Why stop there? Keep all matches away from kids until 18 in case they set their houses on fire. Sit next to your teen in the tub in case they drown. Keep all the knives under lock and key until mommy and daddy come home. Make them wear a reflector. Swim with water wings on. Chastity belts. How about this, instead focusing on blaming the hundreds of millions of parents and teens using transit. You could focus on catching and punishing the far, far, far, far, fewer amount of sexual predators. Not walking your children everywhere until they are 18 = not taking care of your children. And you accuse me of hyperbole? Are you typing all of this from your parents house, on their computer right now?

Seeing as the girl was 15 and incapable of saving herself, I'd say that doesn't really matter in this case.

Of course it matters, that's the entire crux of your argument, that because she was attacked it's her parents fault for not being there. So as I've asked you before, what happens when an adult is attacked? Whose fault it then? You're entire stupid argument is that if you are a victim of a crime you shouldn't be out on your own. If you're a victim of a crime it's because you didn't use the buddy system or fight hard enough. Which is a hilarious position to take, from smack dab in the middle of nowhere. Stay in Waycross Slick, the rest of the world would eat you alive.

[Templar 331]

Of course it matters, that's the entire crux of your argument, that because she was attacked it's her parents fault for not being there.

This will be the last of my responses to you since you seem to keep misconstruing my argument and slinging petty insults. Case in point.....

Are you typing all of this from your parents house, on their computer right now?

To answer your question, no I'm in my own house typing it on my computer.

Here's a tip for life, if you can't take care of yourself don't be by yourself.

This is my argument. A teenager isn't fully capable of defending against an adult. An adult is more likely to be able to but in the event that one isn't the adult should ensure they are less likely to be endangered, i.e. not walk down dark allies.

I'm not missing it, it's irrelevant. If someone comes out of alley and you don't see them and hits you in the head with a bat, that's you screwed.

Then that's your ass for not paying attention to dark allies. The victim of something isn't off the hook because they are the victim. If someone fails to protect themselves from a possible event then it's still on them. Walking into a street with your eyes closed doesn't absolve you when you are hit by a car. Going into public alone when you are too young to protect yourself doesn't mean you or your guardians are in the right.

[King Shark]

This will be the last of my responses to you since you seem to keep misconstruing my argument and slinging petty insults. Case in point.....




To answer your question, no I'm in my own house typing it on my computer.




This is my argument. A teenager isn't fully capable of defending against an adult. An adult is more likely to be able to but in the event that one isn't the adult should ensure they are less likely to be endangered, i.e. not walk down dark allies.




Then that's your ass for not paying attention to dark allies. The victim of something isn't off the hook because they are the victim. If someone fails to protect themselves from a possible event then it's still on them. Walking into a street with your eyes closed doesn't absolve you when you are hit by a car. Going into public alone when you are too young to protect yourself doesn't mean you or your guardians are in the right.

Public transit is among the safest methods of travel in the famously traffic gridlocked New York City. And this girl wasn't traveling by herself on a subway in the middle of the night. She was groped in broad daylight on a fucking crowded city bus. Plenty of people, young and old, use public transit, day and night, without adult supervision just fine; all over the country. So your victim blaming is beyond asinine.

You clearly have no idea what life is like outside of your small town, just going by your posts. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing, you very obviously lack perspective.

[TITAN308]

'Murica! We want blood whenever we see an injustice happen. Regardless if we also then break a law. 'Murica!!

I'm sure pedophiles around the US appreciate your support of their well being?

Whatever floats your boat. I don't suspect you would be raising this type of conversation outside of the internet however. We both know that.

[kylarstern]

This will be the last of my responses to you since you seem to keep misconstruing my argument and slinging petty insults. Case in point.....

Ok.

To answer your question, no I'm in my own house typing it on my computer.

When you say "your own house" do you mean, "your parents garage"?

This is my argument. A teenager isn't fully capable of defending against an adult. An adult is more likely to be able to but in the event that one isn't the adult should ensure they are less likely to be endangered, i.e. not walk down dark allies.

I love these Comicvine "What If" Battles. What about against another teenager? What about a child sized adult attacking an adult sized teen? What if the the adult is 6'1 but only weighs a 135lbs but the teen weighs 190lb but is only 5'2 - who wins? Reach? Or low center of gravity? What if you're a teacher attacked in school by a student? Ok, how about 3 teens (who, as coincidence would have it actually all live in a dark alley) of varying size but one of them has a rape whistle, one of them has their parents on speed dial and one of them has a monkey's paw with one wish left versus one very, very drunk, ex-cop who was kicked off the force for planting evidence? Fight takes place in a well lit soccer pitch. Everyone gets 5 minutes of prep.

Then that's your ass for not paying attention to dark allies. The victim of something isn't off the hook because they are the victim. If someone fails to protect themselves from a possible event then it's still on them. Walking into a street with your eyes closed doesn't absolve you when you are hit by a car. Going into public alone when you are too young to protect yourself doesn't mean you or your guardians are in the right.

Do you just degenerate into a full blown panic attack when you travel? Or is travelling just totally out of the question for you because every bus and alley is full of potential assailants? You're adorable. The fact that you think you can anticipate and defend against any attack by maintaining a 360 degree level of awareness is hilarious. Sure thing there, Steven Segal.

"The victim of something isn't off the hook because they are the victim. If someone fails to protect themselves from a possible event then it's still on them." Possible event - are you like some doomsday prepper or something? The hook for what? On them for what? What the fuck are you talking about? I mean, I know this was your last response and everything but damn if it didn't leave everyone with far more questions than answers. Happy trails, my enigmatic, garage living friend. May your Spider-Sense always give you ample time to reach for your nun-chucks and pepper spray.

* the plural of alley is alleys

[Templar 331]

Public transit is among the safest methods of travel in the famously traffic gridlocked New York City. And this girl wasn't traveling by herself on a subway in the middle of the night. She was groped in broad daylight on a fucking crowded city bus. Plenty of people, young and old, use public transit, day and night, without adult supervision just fine; all over the country. So your victim blaming is beyond asinine.

So you're saying that if one of her parents were there she would still be groped? If that's not the case then it's not as asinine as you make it out to be.

You clearly have no idea what life is like outside of your small town, just going by your posts. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing, you very obviously lack perspective.

Keep life simple and things flow smoother........mostly. :/

[King Shark]

So you're saying that if one of her parents were there she would still be groped? If that's not the case then it's not as asinine as you make it out to be.



Keep life simple and things flow smoother........mostly. :/

Since I currently can neither control time. nor life as we know it, I don't do what ifs. So unless you possess some empirical data which supports your blaming the victim in this instance, then your position will remain one of inanity.

Unaccompanied minors are commonplace on city buses across the country. The risk of stranger danger is pretty low in most daytime metropolitan bus routes. If it had been at night, then your argument would hold slightly more weight. Slightly.

However, being that it was daytime, and she was surrounded by bus patrons, the girl had no reasonable expectation of the danger she encountered, and thus can not be held accountable for the actions of one perverted fuck-shit trying to steal to second base on a crowded bus.

[Templar 331]

Since I currently can neither control time. nor life as we know it, I don't do what ifs. So unless you possess some empirical data which supports your blaming the victim in this instance, then your position will remain one of inanity.

Funny how my "what if's" are nonsense and yet your "shouldn't have happened" is acceptable. If you account for the "what if's" then you won't have to worry about the "shouldn't have happened."

Unaccompanied minors are commonplace on city buses across the country.

So are children who ride bikes without helmets, doesn't make it a good idea.

However, being that it was daytime, the girl had no reasonable expectation of danger she encountered, and thus can not be held accountable for the actions of one perverted fuck-shit trying to steal to second base on a crowded bus.

I'm not saying she's responsible, but she could have avoided it.

[Kouki]

Wrong thread my bad.

[King Shark]

Funny how my "what if's" are nonsense and yet your "shouldn't have happened" is acceptable. If you account for the "what if's" then you won't have to worry about the "shouldn't have happened."



So are children who ride bikes without helmets, doesn't make it a good idea.



I'm not saying she's responsible, but she could have avoided it.

I neither conveyed nor even inferred anything about what should or should not have happened. I simply said that she, like most people, was likely not expecting to be blatantly, gratuitously fondled on a crowed bus in the middle of the day. And since that the piece of shit almost immediately got his face pushed in, I feel justified in my belief. And so, even inferring that anyone other than the fucktard playing grab ass is to blame for this, is asinine, in my opinion. And I will stand by that opinion till death do I part.

Oh, and since many states either have or are enacting laws requiring bike helmets for kids under 18- due to all the data that supports that helmets are safer than no helmets- that comparison falls flat on its face.

So, I hereby agree that I don't agree with you at all. And that I will leave it at that and begone on my way. The give-a-fuck meter is giving me a low resource warning.

[Shadowspire]

Next time don't help, simple.

[Violent]

Next time don't help, simple.

"Throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could have acted. The indifference of those who should have known better. And, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most. This, has made it possible for evil to triumph." ~ L.F.

Evil wins when good people do nothing.

(I am 110% purely atheist and I still am a FIRM believer in that.)

[Templar 331]

I neither conveyed nor even inferred anything about what should or should not have happened. I simply said that she, like most people, was likely not expecting to be blatantly, gratuitously fondled on a crowed bus in the middle of the day.

So a woman doesn't expect to get groped on a crowded bus? I may not have much experience riding on public transit but I'm willing to bet this happens too often.

And since that the piece of shit almost immediately got his face pushed in, I feel justified in my belief. And so, even inferring that anyone other than the fucktard playing grab ass is to blame for this, is asinine, in my opinion. And I will stand by that opinion till death do I part.

Just because a bad outcome was avoided by a stroke of luck doesn't mean it shouldn't have been avoided before hand.

Oh, and since many states either have or are enacting laws requiring bike helmets for kids under 18- due to all the data that supports that helmets are safer than no helmets- that comparison falls flat on its face.

Not really, it just supports my point of people who are foolish will take foolish risks unless made to not take them. Like when a parent won't let their child ride public transit by themselves....

So, I hereby agree that I don't agree with you at all. And that I will leave it at that and begone on my way. The give-a-fuck meter is giving me a low resource warning.

Very well. We'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[kylarstern]

So a woman doesn't expect to get groped on a crowded bus? I may not have much experience riding on public transit but I'm willing to bet this happens too often.

This is it ladies gentlemen, the stupidest thing you'll read all day.

Just because a bad outcome was avoided by a stroke of luck doesn't mean it shouldn't have been avoided before hand.

Oh wait I take it back, the inexperienced, bus grope expert has more insider information on the goings on of buses.

[Shadowspire]

"Throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could have acted. The indifference of those who should have known better. And, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most. This, has made it possible for evil to triumph." ~ L.F.

Evil wins when good people do nothing.

(I am 110% purely atheist and I still am a FIRM believer in that.)

And yet when good ppl do something it seems they are also reprimanded. Doing nothing in this case would have been better for the guy instead of now putting him in this limbo spotlight.

[the game]

And yet when good ppl do something it seems they are also reprimanded. Doing nothing in this case would have been better for the guy instead of now putting him in this limbo spotlight.

They let him go at the scene after they figured out what happened. He put himself in the spotlight on the interwebs.

[ifrah]

So a woman doesn't expect to get groped on a crowded bus? I may not have much experience riding on public transit but I'm willing to bet this happens too often.



Just because a bad outcome was avoided by a stroke of luck doesn't mean it shouldn't have been avoided before hand.



Not really, it just supports my point of people who are foolish will take foolish risks unless made to not take them. Like when a parent won't let their child ride public transit by themselves....



Very well. We'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

So where do you draw the line? There's always other people outside. Always. Never go alone then, or maybe arm yourself, that the answer?
Even giving the slightest hint to the victim that "this would've been avoided had you not been such a foolish person going out and about alone in the middle of the day" can be absolutely devastating for them, let alone for a teenager.

[Templar 331]

So where do you draw the line? There's always other people outside. Always. Never go alone then, or maybe arm yourself, that the answer?

Many women carry mace/pepper spray with them for just such an emergency.

Even giving the slightest hint to the victim that "this would've been avoided had you not been such a foolish person going out and about alone in the middle of the day" can be absolutely devastating for them, let alone for a teenager.

I'm sure the man groping her is more traumatic than someone telling her "be prepared next time."