[Resto] my mythic+ dilemma

[Alltat]

There'a a way to get around that kinda. Have the tank kite to the best of his/her ability. Use slows and stuns on those mobs. They wont pelt if they chasing the tank :>

Vortex should help with that. The spell is lovely for a million things in mythic+, it seems. Great for kiting, for any mobs that charge at random players, and for all those annoying disengaging ranged mobs. I love that Blizzard decided to make it baseline so we can have both that and Typhoon.

[Polarthief]

Sounds like a few issues:

1. You're holding your cooldowns way too much. With Stonebark, don't be afraid to pop Ironbark on any target that needs it, even if it's not a tank (60 seconds = 15-45 Ironbarks PER M+!). Sometimes though, I'll run Flourish instead because it pairs very well with SOTF-WG and G'Hanir.

2. I super-highly recommend running SotF over Cultivation and Prosperity over Cenarion Ward. Save SMs for either 1-2 immediate emergencies (SM one, RG the other), or the entire group is in danger (SM the lowest player, get in a good position to WG yourself and it'll hit everyone with the +75% bonus from SotF).

3. It sounds like the people you run with are part of the problem if they aren't popping healthstones/healing pots and their own personal CDs, or they're standing in bad things. Incoming damage is a group-wide effort and not only on the healer to handle it.

Honestly, unless I get a really shitty tank during Necrotic weeks or I'm doing 10+, I have practically no issues healing M+ and I've only mained Druid since 7.0.3 (in addition to taking Healing seriously; I've been a Mage main since 2.4.3!). Practice makes perfect and unless you're on a boss, NEVER be scared to pro-actively HoT everyone and blow all your mana. Ask your tank to get half a second before the next pull so you can drink while they pull the next pack as you get your mana back. Oh and pro-tip: If you happen to be a Night Elf, Shadowmeld is OVER FUCKING POWERED as a Healer in M+. You can combat drink if you have to go a bit too overboard with your mana.

[Purpleisbetter]

And while some Resto druids may shame it, don't be afraid to spam regrowth.

Hardly; Living Seed counts toward mastery, so RG it's +% (depending on mastery ) healing CD. With no Cd.

[Wild]

U need at least 20% haste bro! U are missing out on the best stat big time. Mastery scales bad, keep it at about 15%. Haste somewhere 20% to 25%. That gives u about 20% crit.
I am item level 865 and I just cleared HoV +10 in time, so I'm not bullshitting really. All the 6-9 is also doable in time

[Deleted]

Time for an update!

First of all, thank you for all the advice. I tried out most of it and things have improved a lot! I've also been running m+ regularly with a premade group for the past several days and that has helped as well, much better coordination.

My talents have not changed much, I'm still very adamant about Cultivation. Using Stonebark much more now and I've played with Abundance yesterday, that felt like it might be useful on higher difficulties as well. Otherwise, Prosperity is extremely useful for much better spot healing. I abandoned SotF because it's super clunky to use in high mythics. The gcd you spend swiftmending someone is too dangerous for the other 4 people that don't get their Wild Growth in time. I'm going to try out Cenarion Ward in higher mythics next but I'm not sure how potent that is when I'm not running with Flourish to back it up.

Other than that I worked on my cooldown usage and having all the cooldowns rolling all the time makes things much less difficult. The same goes for Warstomp, Vortex and Hurricane, those spells are so very useful once you start using them (massive thank you to Viridis and Purpleisbetter for the vortex advice!!)

Overall I'm pretty happy now. We did some Arcway 10-12, EoA 10-12 and HoV 12-13 yesterday and with the exception of HoV13 everything went pretty smooth. But then again I think 13 is the absolute highest you can go in HoV mathematically, at least with tyrannical.

Hardly; Living Seed counts toward mastery, so RG it's +% (depending on mastery ) healing CD. With no Cd.

What do you mean by that? Does Regrowth count as 2 with regard to mastery as long as Living Seed is up?

U need at least 20% haste bro! U are missing out on the best stat big time. Mastery scales bad, keep it at about 15%. Haste somewhere 20% to 25%. That gives u about 20% crit.
I am item level 865 and I just cleared HoV +10 in time, so I'm not bullshitting really. All the 6-9 is also doable in time

Do you really think trading 5% mastery for haste is worth it? In a higher difficulty pull, you have at least 3 hots on everyone, that's 15% increased overall healing you're missing out on. I'm not sure haste can compete with that. I agree that my haste is a little low but I don't think I should trade that much mastery for it.

[Alltat]

What do you mean by that? Does Regrowth count as 2 with regard to mastery as long as Living Seed is up?

One for the HoT, one for the seed. The latter won't last long if the target is taking damage, of course, but you still get the 12 second HoT. Even with low mastery, that's a pretty decent bonus to your healing on that target.

Do you really think trading 5% mastery for haste is worth it? In a higher difficulty pull, you have at least 3 hots on everyone, that's 15% increased overall healing you're missing out on.

Keep the scaling in mind. Going from 15% mastery to 20% mastery won't increase your healing done by 5%. You only get 120%/115% more, so a ~4.3% increase. The higher you go on any stat, the less valuable it becomes compared to the others. You also won't get a full 5% mastery if you give up 5% haste. The biggest selling point of haste is that percent for percent, it's really cheap. You need very few "haste points" to get 1% haste. So if you give up 5% haste, you're only going to get 2.8% mastery.

[Wild]

@Andaarrs the problem is the scaling as I said. Let's say u need 2000 points from 15% mastery to get to 17% mastery. With 2000 points in haste he could get from 15% haste easily up to 20-22% haste. So going above 15% mastery while wasting all of ur haste isn't worth it. With 15% haste ur hots tick slow, u cast slow and with ur slow GCD u won't even be able to hot the whole group like u said.

[Purpleisbetter]

Mastery is a multiplier for each hots u have up.

Since in 5m u can have easily up 3 hots on each target any given time, then no. Haste can't even get close. At 4 or 5 (Flourish windows) the difference is just silly.

[Alltat]

Mastery is a multiplier for each hots u have up.

Since in 5m u can have easily up 3 hots on each target any given time, then no. Haste can't even get close. At 4 or 5 (Flourish windows) the difference is just silly.

Haste can definitely get close. There are two things to keep in mind:

- Haste is cheap. If you have 1000 haste and 1000 mastery, your actual haste percentage is going to be almost twice as high as your mastery percentage. Comparing X% haste to X% mastery is meaningless.
- Haste double-dips. You not only get HoTs that tick faster, but they also take less time to cast. So you have more Rejuvenations up and each one heals for more. So 10% haste is going to result in more than 10% increased HPS. If all HoTs are already up, it frees up time to cast Regrowth more.

[PowerGamez]

I've been running a fair few higher runs this past week including a 10 arcway, neltharion's and quite a few 7-9s of the others. They all went smoothly but group comp makes such a difference. I was surprised the +10 NL was a pug and we made it in time and had no deaths.

I run Abundance, Cultivation and Flourish as my stock standard healer build for M+.

Abundance feels so handy on a week with volcanic and allows you to keep people up and output high hps for a long time which is very handy on tyrannical bosses. I ended up doing 480K hps on the last boss of arcway. Abundance is definitely needed there as I don't think double hot + SotF WG would of been enough to keep the group up. I was rolling 2x rejuv on everyone in the group, lifebloom on the tank or on the blade dash target, regrowth on tank and blade dash target then using WG on CD and spamming HT any other time to keep people at 80%+ hp. Was hectic but felt great. being able to cast 0.6s HT and move out of volcanic quickly was handy.

[Purpleisbetter]

With my m+ equip (23% mastery) i come up with 1 spring blossom hot, rej and WG. That combo alone is 69% increased healing on those targets.

If ii'm also spamming my Regrowth, then i've also RG hot and Living seed, that adds another 46%. Cultivation on 5 targets (basically, dominators in +9 and onward on NL), it's another 23%.

I toss in on a tank a cenarion ward and it's yet another 23% on that target.

How much haste do you need to keep up with a 138% increased healing? (161% in case of the tank).

The numbers mastery heavy produces are simply retarded. Over 1.3M at raging enforcers on CoS (ok i admit, i've Leg boots, so lolTranquillity here), over 900 at dominators and stuff like that.

p.s.: prop to the guy that made me switch to Spring Blossom on M+ too.

- - - Updated - - -

I've been running a fair few higher runs this past week including a 10 arcway, neltharion's and quite a few 7-9s of the others. They all went smoothly but group comp makes such a difference. I was surprised the +10 NL was a pug and we made it in time and had no deaths.

I run Abundance, Cultivation and Flourish as my stock standard healer build for M+.

Abundance feels so handy on a week with volcanic and allows you to keep people up and output high hps for a long time which is very handy on tyrannical bosses. I ended up doing 480K hps on the last boss of arcway. Abundance is definitely needed there as I don't think double hot + SotF WG would of been enough to keep the group up. I was rolling 2x rejuv on everyone in the group, lifebloom on the tank or on the blade dash target, regrowth on tank and blade dash target then using WG on CD and spamming HT any other time to keep people at 80%+ hp. Was hectic but felt great. being able to cast 0.6s HT and move out of volcanic quickly was handy.

I really don't like Abundance, but if you like that, you'd still want to weave Regrowth to increase the hot stacking on the target u need to heal.

For example, you heal X with Regrwoth first, then HT your HT is automatically buffed by 2xMastery (plust eventual hots[if LS is not insta consumed, ofc]).
Mana is a no issue on M+ so spam like there's no tomorrow.

[PowerGamez]

I really don't like Abundance, but if you like that, you'd still want to weave Regrowth to increase the hot stacking on the target u need to heal.

For example, you heal X with Regrwoth first, then HT your HT is automatically buffed by 2xMastery (plust eventual hots[if LS is not insta consumed, ofc]).
Mana is a no issue on M+ so spam like there's no tomorrow.

Yeah I weave regrowths on the group and try to use the free proc as soon as possible.

I find I do go oom after 2-3 chain pulls. I pop mana pots every now and then and drink as much as I can but it isn't like mana isn't an issue. We've been 3 chesting 7-9s with a fast group that chain pulls everything pretty much. I'm using an 855 alchemist stone and 860 chrono shard. I suppose I should just craft a ton of mana pots to chug and then it's a non issue.

[Intricate]

Yeah I weave regrowths on the group and try to use the free proc as soon as possible.

I find I do go oom after 2-3 chain pulls. I pop mana pots every now and then and drink as much as I can but it isn't like mana isn't an issue. We've been 3 chesting 7-9s with a fast group that chain pulls everything pretty much. I'm using an 855 alchemist stone and 860 chrono shard. I suppose I should just craft a ton of mana pots to chug and then it's a non issue.

I pop mana pots on CD in Mythic+ runs, its the only way I can keep my mana up without having to sit and drink regularly.

[Cloudmighty]

Drinking between packs (as in as soon as the last enemy in the last pack dies you start drinking for just a few seconds) is generally enough for me.

As to the comment about me saying in my video "Sometimes spamming Regrowth is okay". Our spot healing without Abundance just feels weak. Stacking Mastery just to get decent Regrowths and gimping raiding stats just feels like bad design to me.

[Purpleisbetter]

Drinking after each pull is key.

[Alltat]

Drinking after each pull is key.

Coincidentally, this also seems to be the best way of coping with Odyn progression...

[lockedout]

Say I'm in one of my favourite dungeons, Neltharion, 6 or higher. We just pulled a group of 3-4 trash after Rokmora. At this point, I frantically put 2 Rejuvs on everyone and LB on the tank and wait for the rocks to fall to start casting Wild Growth. The first one doesn't hurt much usually but as soon as 1-2 people start taking damage, I have to decide if I want to try regrowth-spamming them up or if I want to avoid all risk with a cooldown (Tranq, Ghanir).
The mobs throwing rocks at people are just as tricky. If I don't have pre-hots on people, 2 mobs throwing rocks will cause serious damage, sometimes even fatal when combined with other things like falling rocks, volcanoes and the like. What's the verdict here? Is that how every healer perceives it or is it just me?

Absolutely all questions, feedback and criticism is welcome. Druid are one of the few classes that I really enjoy and yet for some reason, I can't play them without fear of failure. That needs to change, urgently. Thank you!

Players can move out of falling rocks.

[Grizzmaw]

I mean maybe it's because I run most of my higher M+ with guild groups but I've never had problems in any of them (minus some tyrannical bosses that are almost impossible). Of course NL is the most challenging one for any healers but it's still manageable when your group cooperates. For example when we pull the 2 scorpions at the last boss in +7 and lower, I call out my tranq, my G'hanir and then we rotate to personals and then lock rocks/health pots. I understand you thought your healing was the issue but really if your group is smart and communicates cds, cc and such, it helps a lot.

Now as far as talents goes, I run Cenarion, Bear affinity, Cultivation, Germination and Stonebark. I never bothered with Abundance as I legit never use healing touch and since crit is now an acceptable stat, it doesn't boost my regrowth all that much (I'm not jumping in the living seed circlejerk sorry guys). Also SotF is not my thing and doesn't feel organic in any situation, at least for me.
If you're into optimization you can look into a mastery set for M+ but you can't ditch haste tho. I mean M+ or not, it's our main stat. I've had from 25% to 35% during my 870s ilvl period and I could tell the difference in how smooth my general gameplay changed. I got a WF Nightbane trinket tho so I had to drop my 850 haste stick so I'm now at a steady/unbuffed 30% haste at 880 ilvl and I can sail through anything easybreezy except for a few known Tyrannical bosses (Melandrus, notably).

So yeah in conclusion, don't run high M+ with sketchy pugs, communicate how you deal with your cds when needed, get high haste and/or high mastery if you want a separate M+ set, be intuitive with your G'hanir and Ironbark since they are on low cd, stack the hots, watch your timers and you should be good.

[ssk]

Incarn I love, in most dungeons if you're going ham with mana, you don't really need cult or sotf, very few dungeons have such constant group wide damage that make these needed. Instead, Incarn as an oh shit button/if you're communicating with the tank, a way of letting him pull extra big for a pack. Just Innervate+Incarn and go ham.

Very few bosses will need your healing cds, use them on trash, off CD. If you're on comms with your team, let them know when you have cds up and they can go for a big pull.

Trinket wise, test them all and see at the end which one is doing the most healing for you. But don't bother with any mana trinket. Like I said, drink every half a second you get, and let the tank keep himself up for a few seconds. A tank should never need to wait for you to get mana to continue. I personally would use Chrono and Vial. But test it out yourself.

Cenarion Ward/Incarn/Germ/Stone. I don't see why you wouldn't take stone, even on lower difficulties, just make the tank pull bigger so you do get use out of it.

And while some Resto druids may shame it, don't be afraid to spam regrowth. If your hots are already on people/people are taking damage hots won't fix alone, just go ham with regrowth. But worst case scenario, you use a CD, but that's what they're there for.

This is basically what I do as well and I was able to finish Arcway 10 in time. I know a lot of people don't pick incarnation for dungeons, but I found that instant regrowth spam (possibly with innervate to save mana) can save the group from wiping. I have tried with cultivation, but I just like having another cool down for emergencies. Plus, cultivation is not fast enough in emergency/mistake situations. I have not tried Prop+SoF combo yet in dungeons because cenarion ward is just too good to pass on.

Also, stonebark used to be my go-to talent for dungeons, but these days, I only use it for necrotic. Flourish was really good for volcanic, for me at least.

Similar to Archer, I use mana pots during fight and drink while tank pulls, but I usually have 2-3 hots on the tank while i'm drinking.

Make sure to use mastery food for dungeons. I have 2 sets of gear on my resto druid. Haste/crit for raiding and mastery for dungeons.

In terms of trinkets... I'm still not quite sure what the best ones are, but I use Vial and ethereal urn. I do think mana saving trinkets are useless for dungeons though.

[Cloudmighty]

Yep, I agree. Cultivation just seems to slow in higher mythics. HoTs feel weak past +10. I don't bother with mana saving trinkets at all. Just straight up mastery. I'm using the Int + Mastery Trinket from Helya which I would say is BiS for 5man content atm.