S2M Baseline?

[Varako]

This is a quote from the front page: The team looked at all of the talent rows, there are some talents that are never worth considering. These talents may need tuning or redesign. The talents that 98% of players are taking may just need to be baked into the spec.

Is this in reference to S2M?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I think it has to be. That is a clear case that everyone is using, at least for raiding. I wonder how many people are taking it for 5 mans though? I haven't played shadow this expansion, but in general I think Surrender to Madness is a great example of something that should just be baseline.

[Deleted]

This is a quote from the front page: The team looked at all of the talent rows, there are some talents that are never worth considering. These talents may need tuning or redesign. The talents that 98% of players are taking may just need to be baked into the spec.

Is this in reference to S2M?

nope!
won´t see it happen

[Shirofune]

Didn't they already say S2M was bound to be reworked?

[Volitar]

I wish they would go in detail about stuff like this. I remember the majority of previous Blizzcon talk was about class design and stuff like that. Now they just hardly mention it without giving any specifics .

[Deleted]

I think it has to be. That is a clear case that everyone is using, at least for raiding. I wonder how many people are taking it for 5 mans though? I haven't played shadow this expansion, but in general I think Surrender to Madness is a great example of something that should just be baseline.

Just because S2M is completely overtuned. It is by far the strongest talent of ALL specs ingame.

[Fleuria]

it will probably go baseline with ros and be some potato version.

[Varako]

I think the concern for blizzard had been " mandatory " talents. So, this addresses that issue. You throw in void entropy as a 3rd dot to replace S2M?

[Deleted]

Twist of Fate is perfect thing for that quote, not s2m

[Kaesebrezen]

Just because S2M is completely overtuned. It is by far the strongest talent of ALL specs ingame.

Mass Hysteria, Legacy and Mind Spike are the problem, not S2M itself. You can't really expect to balance S2M against two 0 DPS talents. And a quadratic component from Mass Hysteria is also anything but good.

If they're lazy, they'll rework S2M completely.
If they go the proper route, they'll redesign Legacy, Mind Spike and Mass Hysteria.

What should be baseline on the other hand: Twist of Fate.
It's been around for 3 expansions, and it's always been the default pick in it's tier.

[Deleted]

Twist of Fate is perfect thing for that quote, not s2m

^this.

About S2M it'll probably be nerfed a long with the other talents buffed. But Twist of Fate, which is mandatory, may as well be baked into the class altogether and replaced with something that is actually a choice.

[hablix]

God I hope not. Shadow Priest will be dead for me then. (It already is for me at the moment, but it will be forever if that happens.)

[ovm33]

I foresee them nerfing S2M into the ground... By removing the cast while moving part. In exchange it will no longer kill you when it expires... Something like a 20-30 second non-dispellable stun or make it so you can't generate insanity for a minute or something. (Just pulling these ideas out of my arse as things they might consider.)

Twist of Fate is what they will make baseline in my opinion. Maybe move Masochism into it's spot and come up with another movement option for the lvl30 row.

[kalaratic]

celestalon actually spoke briefly on swifty's stream yesterday about the surrender situation going forward if anyone wants to check it out here

to me it sounds like it will not be baseline since it really alters your gameplay and that they would rather just create actual competitive options in the row then to just force everyone to get used to that playstyle.

[Naga Coatl]

I sincerely hope that it won't be baseline. StM is an gimmick that requires too many factors to be used well (or used at all), and some of them don't even depend on player's skill, as we know since alpha/beta. I'd rather NOT being balanced about that if it gets only mildly reworked to 'keep its spirit' while becoming baseline.

Besides, being balanced around a hyper-execute is frustrating in my opinion, personally I can't stand how predicting the right moment to use it is a required skill to use it decently.

[KaPe]

celestalon actually spoke briefly on swifty's stream yesterday about the surrender situation going forward if anyone wants to check it out here

to me it sounds like it will not be baseline since it really alters your gameplay and that they would rather just create actual competitive options in the row then to just force everyone to get used to that playstyle.

This would require either massive buffs to LotV and Mind Spike or huge nerf to S2M/Mass Hysteria. No other talent *in game* comes close to the amount of power S2M has, they can't just "create competitive options" without dealing with this first.

[asapeazy]

I hate s2m. Dying from an ability is stupid, no matter how much flavor it may have. Didn't main one like i wanted to because of it.

[healme]

celestalon actually spoke briefly on swifty's stream yesterday about the surrender situation going forward if anyone wants to check it out here

to me it sounds like it will not be baseline since it really alters your gameplay and that they would rather just create actual competitive options in the row then to just force everyone to get used to that playstyle.

What concerns me about that is he didnt actually name the other talents in the row but s2m. Its like he didnt know them at all.Maybe im picking.

[Deleted]

Whatever happens, I think we are fucked until the end of Legion. The spec needs expansion-to-expansion type of overhaul.

Too many aspects of the rotation, gameplay are linked to MS and StM.

I would love them to combine Void Lord with LotV and make that type of a talent. And have LotV as a very unique playstyle spell - rapid Insanity build-up for short Void Forms, give StM the ''long'' Void Form duration.

[anon5123]

Mass Hysteria, Legacy and Mind Spike are the problem, not S2M itself. You can't really expect to balance S2M against two 0 DPS talents. And a quadratic component from Mass Hysteria is also anything but good.

It's a combination of both.

S2M is horrendously powerful, AND, the other two talents are pretty much 0 dps gain.

But yeah, S2M is going to be nerfed and/or made baseline.