Holy Shield & Necrotic

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

How much does it help? It won't drop stacks, but should mitigate some damage? I tried it on a Darkheart 9 and it showed in Recount as 10% of my self heals. Is it worth giving up Blessed Hammer?

Seems right on the fence for me, so wondering what others think.

[Saverem]

How do you deal with Nectrotic at high stacks? I remember pulling 2 packs of crabs in EoA and getting almost up to 30 stacks in mere seconds in a +8 last night. Was not good times.

The pack mobs seem to be the hardest since each mob applies Necrotic and stack it up to absurd amounts in mere seconds. We had 2 classes that could AoE stun in the grp, which helped a lot.

[lockedout]

Spell warding slow kite stun etc.

[Deleted]

How do you deal with Nectrotic at high stacks?

Take Consecrated Ground, Final Stand and Blessing of Spellwarding talents. Make sure one person in your group has an AoE stun. The shorter the CD, the better.

1. Your go-to tactic to drop stacks is using the AoE stun, moving 10-15 yards, dropping Consecration, moving to the edge of it. By the time the stun expires and mobs reach you Necrotic will drop off.

2. Blessing of Spellwarding is the backup in case stun is on CD (or on bosses). It will not clear stacks but it will prevent further application.

3. Finally, Final Stand is your oh-crap move. If you have no other way of getting rid of stacks, use bubble and problem solved.

My group typically includes a fire mage and an enhance shaman. At around 20 stacks I ask for Lightning Surge Totem, move out and position Consecration between mobs and myself. The mage also Flamestrikes just for good measure. Our backup for Lightning Surge Totem is Dragon's Breath, the only drawback is dps have to peace out while it lasts.

EDIT:

While Necrotic is up I generally try and get mob count by killing large mobs over small packs. EoA is a great example where I avoid all murloc groups, most crabs and oozes and pull skippable giants instead.

[caervek]

Is it worth giving up Blessed Hammer?

I thought HS was better than BH for 5mans anyway? From what I read BH is only better in raids because bosses attack so slow it guarantees reduced damage on almost every auto attack, wheras when tanking multiple enemies HS gives more mitigation and damage. Is that not actually the case?

[Deleted]

I thought HS was better than BH for 5mans anyway? From what I read BH is only better in raids because bosses attack so slow it guarantees reduced damage on almost every auto attack, wheras when tanking multiple enemies HS gives more mitigation and damage. Is that not actually the case?

A typical dungeon pull consists of 4 mobs. Your single cast of BH will most likely affect all 4 mobs. If you are casting BH every second global (what we should be striving for), all 4 mobs will more often than not suffer from the debuff. Not home atm to do some basic math, but from practical experience (150+ mythic+ runs completed), BH is still more beneficial than HS.

[caervek]

A typical dungeon pull consists of 4 mobs. Your single cast of BH will most likely affect all 4 mobs.

Yeah but IIRC the guides were saying HS was better for 5mans because the mobs hit faster so the uptime on BH debuff won't be as good as on a raidboss.

Meh I'll try BH on tonight's M+ runs

[Poshadin]

Necrotic sucks but it's not that bad.
I still use BH over HS. The flat damage reduction is better than the extra block chance IMO

Spellwarding CAN clear your stacks if you cast it at the right time, it will make you immune for just about as long as the debuff last. So it can reset your stacks.

But for the most part everything dies before I need to clear my stacks, if not I slow consecrate and just sprint away. In an emergency I'll bubble and clear the bubble.

And I still do massive pulls of small mobs in places like EOA. Your stacks rocket up but they do next to no damage so don't need the heals anyway. More worried about the DOT itself killing me than mob damage, but I can just bubble it off. And it's very easy to kite mobs if you need to.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Necrotic sucks but it's not that bad.
I still use BH over HS. The flat damage reduction is better than the extra block chance IMO

Spellwarding CAN clear your stacks if you cast it at the right time, it will make you immune for just about as long as the debuff last. So it can reset your stacks.

But for the most part everything dies before I need to clear my stacks, if not I slow consecrate and just sprint away. In an emergency I'll bubble and clear the bubble.

And I still do massive pulls of small mobs in places like EOA. Your stacks rocket up but they do next to no damage so don't need the heals anyway. More worried about the DOT itself killing me than mob damage, but I can just bubble it off. And it's very easy to kite mobs if you need to.

Yeah slow-consecrate and kiting were my go-to strategies for Teeming/Necrotic week, but I'm always looking for tweaks to up my game. Thanks to all for the suggestions in this thread.

[Deleted]

Necrotic sucks but it's not that bad. SNIP

I partially agree with you. Everything you wrote makes sense for me provided we are talking about either mythic 7 and lower or you've got an insane dps composition (the dream imo: ww, dh, fmage).

In higher mythics (especially m10+ with fortifying), mobs usually take time to die, enough to make dealing with Necrotic a topic worth debating.

[OrcsRLame]

One thing that helps with Necrotic is doing insanely large pulls. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it's way easier to do 1 15 mob pull than to do 3 5 mob pulls in a row. The reason for this is two fold. First off, as paladins we have the best defensive CDs in the game bar none. Run in, pop guardian, hit like 40 stacks in just a few seconds, pop Final Stand when the damage gets unhealable. The second reason is that dps cooldowns are more powerful than you may realize. If dps are playing properly, they may pop their CDs on the first 5 mob pack, blowing them up in seconds, and then have nothing for the next two packs. That's just how dps specs are designed, but it's a problem with Necrotic. The solution is to maximize the value of those cooldowns. Do big pulls and let your dps hit 2-3 mil.

Also does wonders for your clear time.

Probably the biggest example of this is Corstillax trash in Arcway. Doing those 3 pulls in a row is fucking brutal, and you're likely going to hit a point where you have to just stop pulling and at least wait for Eye of Tyr if you don't want to die to the next pack. You cannot handle those without CDs unless your group is god tier. As long as everyone interrupts Eyes of the Vortex though, grouping up all 3 of those packs is relatively easy, and with the haste bubbles and your dps hitting cooldowns if everyone plays decently well they will die before your bubble wears off.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

One thing that helps with Necrotic is doing insanely large pulls. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it's way easier to do 1 15 mob pull than to do 3 5 mob pulls in a row. The reason for this is two fold. First off, as paladins we have the best defensive CDs in the game bar none. Run in, pop guardian, hit like 40 stacks in just a few seconds, pop Final Stand when the damage gets unhealable. The second reason is that dps cooldowns are more powerful than you may realize. If dps are playing properly, they may pop their CDs on the first 5 mob pack, blowing them up in seconds, and then have nothing for the next two packs. That's just how dps specs are designed, but it's a problem with Necrotic. The solution is to maximize the value of those cooldowns. Do big pulls and let your dps hit 2-3 mil.

Also does wonders for your clear time.

Probably the biggest example of this is Corstillax trash in Arcway. Doing those 3 pulls in a row is fucking brutal, and you're likely going to hit a point where you have to just stop pulling and at least wait for Eye of Tyr if you don't want to die to the next pack. You cannot handle those without CDs unless your group is god tier. As long as everyone interrupts Eyes of the Vortex though, grouping up all 3 of those packs is relatively easy, and with the haste bubbles and your dps hitting cooldowns if everyone plays decently well they will die before your bubble wears off.

Wow! Ok, I confess I hadn't thought about Necrotic = go bigger. My healer may have a cardiac, but it sounds just fun enough to give it a try.

[Deleted]

Wow! Ok, I confess I hadn't thought about Necrotic = go bigger. My healer may have a cardiac, but it sounds just fun enough to give it a try.

From practical experience, it's the best approach. Make sure to announce to your healer he might want to have a bottle of a strong spirit near by

[OrcsRLame]

Wow! Ok, I confess I hadn't thought about Necrotic = go bigger. My healer may have a cardiac, but it sounds just fun enough to give it a try.

Not my idea originally lol. The first time we got Necrotic in US, I was struggling to stay alive in 7s. Granted, I didn't know that magic bop blocked the application of Necrotic, but still, I was getting fucking wrecked. Then like a week or two later, I was watching Fragnance stream, and he was 3 chesting level 9 Arcways with Teeming and Necrotic, with a pally tank, our very own Lazel who posts in the prot paladin discussion thread. (or used to, idk if he does these days cause I don't keep up on it too much) So I decided to watch a few of their runs to see how he handles things, and he did the most utterly insane pulls I'd ever seen. And he wasn't dying.

I don't go quite as ham as he did, but I did note how he did those pulls and adapted a few things into my own playstyle. I don't die on Necrotic now lol. The hardest part about doing these big pulls is actually interrupts. Like, if you let 3 Eyes of the Vortex go off, you will die before you even realized what happened. That goes for a lot of dungeons too, not just Arcway. Everyone needs to be on point with interrupts and AoE stuns at just the right time.