S2M in Class Hall

[Notouchiez]

Does anyone find it frustrating that while practicing on dummies in your class hall you have to wait 10 minutes still for the CD of S2M? Do you think it would be too much to ask for no CD while in class hall? If so, how do we even go about starting to bring this up to devs?

[Dawnrage]

S2M is almost certainly gone or getting changed in 7.1.5, so you don't really have to.

[Deleted]

s2m playstyle is only good thing on priest, top notch of how good players will shine and other blame s2m for dying thing or not funny.

Typical casual community

For me, it's the most fun spec i used from vanilla

[Dawnrage]

s2m playstyle is only good thing on priest, top notch of how good players will shine and other blame s2m for dying thing or not funny.

Typical casual community

For me, it's the most fun spec i used from vanilla

It's fun, but problematic. I don't think shadow is in a great state at the moment, where we are destroying every other class by a decent margin on almost every fight in raids. That's not really balance - sure it's great for people who play spriests, but all that means is you have more FOTM rerollers into spriests. Not to mention this one talent defines us, and is the reason why we can't get buffed for other content as well. I rather they nerf it and have us be viable to compete for the top spot on meters but not be overwhelmingly ahead, while also being competitive in smaller group/solo content.

[Deleted]

S2M is almost certainly gone or getting changed in 7.1.5, so you don't really have to.

No, there is no indication of such thing.
The whole spec is based around it, mass hysteria should be enough of a hint.
Without a rework which will not happen, the biggest nerf they can do is limit it somehow.

[ttylol]

No, there is no indication of such thing.

Developers’ Notes: We would prefer that Surrender to Madness not be as dominant as it is, and that it can’t be extended for quite so long. However, addressing this further would require significant changes to the spec beyond what we want to do in a tuning pass at this time. We will look for an opportunity to take a more comprehensive look at this issue in a future patch.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749266229

Hope it goes baseline and nerfed to something like "For the next XX seconds, reaching 0 Insanity does not cause you to exit Voidform". I'm so tired of the risk... Hoping stars align on Mythic Nythendra, time-to-kill on farm going too fast, etc.

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749266229

Hope it goes baseline and nerfed to something like "For the next XX seconds, reaching 0 Insanity does not cause you to exit Voidform". I'm so tired of the risk... Hoping stars align on Mythic Nythendra, time-to-kill on farm going too fast, etc.

I find playing w/ s2m its like "u can cast whatever u want and moving" and it's so win-win thing, how can you think about risks? It's so easy to manage s2m and do good

[Al Gorefiend]

Surrender to Madness needs to be baseline - period. The tier 100 talent can be replaced. The entire spec and artifact traits were built around it and numbers adjusted to accommodate it. Not taking S2M as your tier 100 is the single largest DPS loss a single misplaced talent can create in the entire game, across all classes talent trees.

[Deleted]

I find playing w/ s2m its like "u can cast whatever u want and moving" and it's so win-win thing, how can you think about risks? It's so easy to manage s2m and do good

First, the situation of your video will never happen in raid. A no mechanic and triple dot in melee to you maximise AS insanity gain with perfect BL fight won't ever happen.

Second, there are plenty of risk, as stated by the guy you quote. Getting MCed because of bad luck (sorry m8, double rot for you) during nythendra is an instant death. Of course, that kind of thing do not happen on dummies and in LFR ... Then you have to feel when to pop your STM so it last at least 120 second.

There are reasons most SP underperform and can not produce a perfect STM. It isn't easy, and it is highly dependent of not only your skills but also of your raid, your latency and your luck.

[Deleted]

First, the situation of your video will never happen in raid. A no mechanic and triple dot in melee to you maximise AS insanity gain with perfect BL fight won't ever happen.

Second, there are plenty of risk, as stated by the guy you quote. Getting MCed because of bad luck (sorry m8, double rot for you) during nythendra is an instant death. Of course, that kind of thing do not happen on dummies and in LFR ... Then you have to feel when to pop your STM so it last at least 120 second.

There are reasons most SP underperform and can not produce a perfect STM. It isn't easy, and it is highly dependent of not only your skills but also of your raid, your latency and your luck.

who want s2m reworked are just totally dumbass, yes it needs to be nerfed, output should be tuned down too, BUT NO reworked.

Yes s2m it's not easy, but playstyle, an unique talent where u are feeling your blood pumping, it's fun and that's the most important thing.

Who don't find fun, should just have an alternative WORKING.

I just don't understand why people praise for nerf and destroying s2m when it's at least way way more fun that lotv and mindshit.

[Deleted]

Again, the problem is not what people want. The problem is that if they made LOTV as good as S2M then no one in his right mind would pick S2M... why risk when you can get the same result without risk? No point.
S2M idea was just bad, lets be honest about it. The concept that in the end you die and cant be ressed means it has to be a very rewarding talent, but then you have everyone complain because we all know dps charts > everything to people. And since they cant allow S2M to be so good, they will obviously have to nerf ìt a lot, to a point it wont probably be worth using if they keep their promise to buff the other talents.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

who want s2m reworked are just totally dumbass, yes it needs to be nerfed, output should be tuned down too, BUT NO reworked.

Yes s2m it's not easy, but playstyle, an unique talent where u are feeling your blood pumping, it's fun and that's the most important thing.

It was fun when it was still fresh. Now it's just annoying. A CD that kills you when it expires is not fun. Doesn't matter how good you are, at some point you are going to make a mistake and die too early. The entire spell should be reworked or just replaced by something else.

The above is just based on personal feelings. When you also take into consideration that S2M in it's current form is impossible to balance (either OP or too weak), it's pretty obvious that it needs to go.

[Dawnrage]

who want s2m reworked are just totally dumbass, yes it needs to be nerfed, output should be tuned down too, BUT NO reworked.

Yes s2m it's not easy, but playstyle, an unique talent where u are feeling your blood pumping, it's fun and that's the most important thing.

Who don't find fun, should just have an alternative WORKING.

I just don't understand why people praise for nerf and destroying s2m when it's at least way way more fun that lotv and mindshit.

S2M in it's current state will always be overpowered, no ifs, ands, or buts. It's just how it is. What's the point of a high risk talent if the reward is not high as well? That just means no one would pick it.

So if S2M is overpowered, you have the current state of affairs, where good spriests are DOMINATING every single class on every single fight. Blizzard would have to intentionally make fights JUST to counter S2M so we can't use it. Tell me, does that sound good to you? You would have nothing but raid fights with sleeps/stuns/mcs/periods where you have nothing to attack ETC.

Let's say they go the other potential route of nerfing S2M by leaving it unchanged so the feel stays the same, but we are instead made weaker. That just means that outside of S2M, we are going to be even more useless in every other content. How can we hope for proper balance if S2M is so strong, since buffing us is indirectly buffing S2M as well. Any content where we can't use S2M will have us suffer dearly for it.

The very nature of S2M is just impossible to balance. It's a fun talent, don't get me wrong. I think it's the most fun talent any spec has every had in the game by far, and in a world (of warcraft) where damage meters don't exist, this talent would be something I 100% want every single time. However, that's not the case, and S2M being overpowered just leaves priests in too strong of a state, and just means eventually everyone is going to reroll FOTM priests and having mythic guilds stack multiple spriests for every fight that isn't made to counter S2M. Basically raiding would be about S2M, and that's not good for the game, the other specs, and spriests itself.

[Faildevil]

That would be super cool if the CD of STM would be resettet evertime you die in a sanctuary or something like that. I think there is no other WOW talent which requires so much practise to master it.

[Shyzhi]

I agree S2M is too strong in its current state, While its one of the most fun times iv ever had in WoW PvE and the odd yelling at myself if i make a mistake and die early is always good. But the issue is not fully on S2M, Without the Mass Hystera perk in our weapon yeah S2M is strong but the buffed dots and how fast they tick is what makes it more overpowered. Blizzards idea to nerf mass hystera was.. "ok" but it then nerfed us to hard. S2M and Mass Hysteria is gonna be so hard to balance around. People thinking we get S2M baseline are nuts aswell if we do it be reworked sooo much it wouldnt even do the same as it does now. Ofc id love more choice in my talents atm even in pvp i stay S2M but never use it as the other talents feel "meh". I cant wait to see what blizzards ideas are. iv seen some ideas of making LoTV baseline, adding a new AOE talent in there and so on.