does anyone else feel like arenas became all about doing dps and not about setup?

[Sencha]

Frost dk have about 8-9 rotational buttons fyi.

Are you counting wasd?

[Bearilla]

No it wouldnt mean ranged>melee. Give Melee other type of of things to do. Warriors had 50% mortal wound and that worked just fine in tbc pvp. They had their things in reflecting and swapping stances. There were something behind the tunnel visioning. If you as FDK dont have 95% uptime on ur main target atm, then you are doing something wrong, or your whole arena team is missing the point. FDK takes zero skill, dont even try to defend yourself, its total garbage of a spec, you literally roll your face over keyboard and do crazy shit dmg. That isnt pvp, that is competition in destroying your keyboard... Not even apm is required...

Yes, it absolutely would mean that. "range/melee/heal or range/range/heal should be the only viable comps" If this were the case then why even fuck with melee? If ranged+ranged was viable then that means it would serve the same purpose. Just as much dps and utility. If you can do all of this from range then melee would be SCREWED.

Yeah, and to have guys like Bearilla thinking thats skill or fine, is absurd. You can do that in pve, and its less frustrating. There should be a way to outplay some1, to outsmart them. But no, its actually logical to only have dps wars in arena, cause its about killing in the arena. Honestly, I am sry to say this, and I expect a punishment from this forum moderators, but something is increasingly wrong with people and their logic. Its somewhat tragic...

You are implying that there is no counter to FDK. Then why aren't all the spots on the ladder filled with FDK? Why aren't they joining with 3 FDK only and beating everyone? Because there is a counter. Has already been discussed. FDK slow, you fast.

What is tragic is the condescending attitude all ranged/casters seem to have. It is awfully telling about someone's personality to see how empowered they are by what type of toon they play in WoW. You feel that ALL people who play a melee are "brainless" and have "no logic". You feel that ONLY ranged should be viable and if there is no ranged in the group then melee is worthless. How does this make sense to you? If melee+melee is not a thing then ranged+ranged should not be a thing. Simple as that.

[Deleted]

Are you counting wasd?

Obliterate, Death Strike, Syndragosa, Icebound Fortitude, left mouseclick, right mouseclick, t-bag binding, /spit macro.
You're wrong, they have 8 without wasd!

[Janke]

Yes, it absolutely would mean that. "range/melee/heal or range/range/heal should be the only viable comps" If this were the case then why even fuck with melee? If ranged+ranged was viable then that means it would serve the same purpose. Just as much dps and utility. If you can do all of this from range then melee would be SCREWED.




You are implying that there is no counter to FDK. Then why aren't all the spots on the ladder filled with FDK? Why aren't they joining with 3 FDK only and beating everyone? Because there is a counter. Has already been discussed. FDK slow, you fast.

What is tragic is the condescending attitude all ranged/casters seem to have. It is awfully telling about someone's personality to see how empowered they are by what type of toon they play in WoW. You feel that ALL people who play a melee are "brainless" and have "no logic". You feel that ONLY ranged should be viable and if there is no ranged in the group then melee is worthless. How does this make sense to you? If melee+melee is not a thing then ranged+ranged should not be a thing. Simple as that.

I simply cant go on anymore, you dont understand what I am trying to say, you obviously dont care. You are a god damn frost dk who thinks life is perfect, and that class is viable and not op. I am talking about different freaking things, and how there should be something else but brainless hitting of keyboard buttons. If you dont want to understand that, then sir I cant fucking help you. Sry... I talked about stuff being viable in different ways, you completely ignore that, to speak about ur fdk... Gosh. Live with it, spec is brainless and is op...

[Tharoth]

Thats a very good point !

[Deleted]

I have tried out frost DK recently to understand the class better. Frost has always been a simple spec but I was surprised that Blizzard managed to add more depth to their rotation. For PvP two play style exist one is Machine gun keeping up haste buff from Icy talon talent another play style is Gathering storm, spending runes and increasing Remorseless Winter dmg.

Frost dmg is definitely high but this is also the spec with least mobility and CC in the game. I think the reason people are having problem with this spec so much is because it only came to PvP in 7.1, other classes don't know about its honor talents. Frost's strength is its close range AoE. Don't stack when playing against Frost cause DK will use Chill Streak (rank 46 honor talent) it jumps between two close targets but won't work if you are more than 10 yards away from friendly.

Another thing is frost is also very squishy. Only defensives they have are Ice bound fortitude 20% dmg reduc for 8 sec on 3min cd, Anti magic shell 880k dmg absorb on 1 min cd, Anti magic zone 60% magic dmg reduc for 5 sec on 2 min cd (Honor talent). Remember to kite DK during IBF Death strike heals 300% during it but DK can't use more than 2 death strike cause cost is 45 runic power. These are all the secrets to FDK, happy hunting.

[Janke]

I have tried out frost DK recently to understand the class better. Frost has always been a simple spec but I was surprised that Blizzard managed to add more depth to their rotation. For PvP two play style exist one is Machine gun keeping up haste buff from Icy talon talent another play style is Gathering storm, spending runes and increasing Remorseless Winter dmg.

Frost dmg is definitely high but this is also the spec with least mobility and CC in the game. I think the reason people are having problem with this spec so much is because it only came to PvP in 7.1, other classes don't know about its honor talents. Frost's strength is its close range AoE. Don't stack when playing against Frost cause DK will use Chill Streak (rank 46 honor talent) it jumps between two close targets but won't work if you are more than 10 yards away from friendly.

Another thing is frost is also very squishy. Only defensives they have are Ice bound fortitude 20% dmg reduc for 8 sec on 3min cd, Anti magic shell 880k dmg absorb on 1 min cd, Anti magic zone 60% magic dmg reduc for 5 sec on 2 min cd (Honor talent). Remember to kite DK during IBF Death strike heals 300% during it but DK can't use more than 2 death strike cause cost is 45 runic power. These are all the secrets to FDK, happy hunting.

/facepalm

THE DEPTH OF FDK's... You should check warriors and enhc shamans and their defensive's. You should check destro locks and shadow priests and their mobility. Last but not least, you should again check warriors for their cc, cause I cant seem to find anything besides 8 sec fear on a 2 min cd.... Least amount of cc, having an option to chose a 4 sec aoe stun or 4 sec aoe blind on 1 min cd is least amount of cc. Grip is actually not a cc/interrupt, its what? Wraithwalk is not mobility, it is used to break snare's I guess, and its on a 45sec cd. Spec doesnt have depth, you jsut have to use common sense, dont blow ur mobility/grip coordinate with ur mongoloid partner at minimal rates (dude i am gripping dont use anything, or dude slow him down I will catch up). Gj your gladiator this season... Depth, yeah. Try fucking playing destro lock on tbc server. Thats motherfucking depth bro...

[Deleted]

/facepalm

THE DEPTH OF FDK's... You should check warriors and enhc shamans and their defensive's. You should check destro locks and shadow priests and their mobility. Last but not least, you should again check warriors for their cc, cause I cant seem to find anything besides 8 sec fear on a 2 min cd.... Least amount of cc, having an option to chose a 4 sec aoe stun or 4 sec aoe blind on 1 min cd is least amount of cc. Grip is actually not a cc/interrupt, its what? Wraithwalk is not mobility, it is used to break snare's I guess, and its on a 45sec cd. Spec doesnt have depth, you jsut have to use common sense, dont blow ur mobility/grip coordinate with ur mongoloid partner at minimal rates (dude i am gripping dont use anything, or dude slow him down I will catch up). Gj your gladiator this season... Depth, yeah. Try fucking playing destro lock on tbc server. Thats motherfucking depth bro...

I cant really reply to a rant post. I mean you are just ranting without reading anything. I play arms, enhance, WW and UH also lvled up a DH to 110 and currently lvling a feral. I main UH and my post was about helping people understand frost, not to say FROST IS THE BEST SPEC EVER. But I will humor you as for defensives Arms gets on demand 20% dmg reduction, 2 min CD die by the sword which 100% parry for 8 sec and honor talent Shield reflect. Now compare that to FDK. Enhance is one of the squishiest class in game 1.5 min cd defensives 40% dmg reduc, they can insta cast heal but around 4 cast of Healing surge will drain all mana.

Lets talk about CC first of all you gave wrong information, Intimidating shout isn't 2 min cd its 1.5. Second of all 30 sec range stun or 20/40 sec aoe stun is a lot better than FDK stun cause FDK stun requires 4 stacks of remorseless winter while Pillar of frost is up, if you cant avoid that then PvP isn't for you. Another talent Blinding sheet is melee range in cone 4 sec disorient, it is only used for interrupting or peeling. So Arms got 2 CC and stun with half the CD, clearly better than FDK. Enhance got Hex and Lightning totem. yes Grip can be used as interrupt and so can be Sundering by Enhance.

Arms and Enhance don't have any more depth to them than FDK. Melee specs with higher skill cap are rogues, WW, UH and feral to some extent. People have a tendency to blame others for their loss. Learn about other classes instead of just complaining, you will have better success that way.

[Deleted]

Arenas are a joke since their implementation. Remember class balance in BC? Those resto druids, warriors or mages? Yes thats why arena esport failed the very first expansion they introduced them. Blizzard trying hard to push it into an esport and funding events does not equal esports. They just try that with hearthstone, that should tell you that they don't care about making real competitive games, they just want the money that esport generates

[Deleted]

The meta is a joke right now. You just pick 2 melees: fdk, ww, feral, warrior, dh or retry, then pick a healer that isn't priest and mongoloid your way to the win. The fdks that are at 2k2 right now wouldn't get past 1k7 in other seasons, and if they tried to play something that actually takes skill like RMP, their brains would collapse.

It's even funnier because they keep nerfing casters like mage, ele shaman or locks for some reason.

[Caolela]

The meta is a joke right now. You just pick 2 melees: fdk, ww, feral, warrior, dh or retry, then pick a healer that isn't priest and mongoloid your way to the win. The fdks that are at 2k2 right now wouldn't get past 1k7 in other seasons, and if they tried to play something that actually takes skill like RMP, their brains would collapse.

It's even funnier because they keep nerfing casters like mage, ele shaman or locks for some reason.

I tell ya it's because if they encouraged specs that take more than 4 brain cells to play, the Twitter/phone mentality ADD kids would quit the game.

Legion 4 Easiest Specs PvP

4. Sub
3. FDK
2. Aff
1. BM Hunter

Can't say I disagree. Here's all you need to know: Celestalon, the Lead Class Dev, plays WoW PvP on a Wacom tablet with a pen.

A fucking tablet. With a fucking pen.

[Bearilla]

/facepalm

THE DEPTH OF FDK's... You should check warriors and enhc shamans and their defensive's. You should check destro locks and shadow priests and their mobility. Last but not least, you should again check warriors for their cc, cause I cant seem to find anything besides 8 sec fear on a 2 min cd.... Least amount of cc, having an option to chose a 4 sec aoe stun or 4 sec aoe blind on 1 min cd is least amount of cc. Grip is actually not a cc/interrupt, its what? Wraithwalk is not mobility, it is used to break snare's I guess, and its on a 45sec cd. Spec doesnt have depth, you jsut have to use common sense, dont blow ur mobility/grip coordinate with ur mongoloid partner at minimal rates (dude i am gripping dont use anything, or dude slow him down I will catch up). Gj your gladiator this season... Depth, yeah. Try fucking playing destro lock on tbc server. Thats motherfucking depth bro...

The 4 sec aoe stun is only during burst AND you have to be pretty close. If you get stunned or rooted during burst you are screwed out of burst and your aoe stun. If you save ams for your burst then you don't have it when you need it for defensive. If you use wraith walk to get out of a snare you don't have it as a gap closer. If you use grip to coordinate a stun and burst you won't have it as a gap closer. If you use ibf without runic power you are SOL for self heals.

It is not as straight forward as you make it out to be. There are a lot of things that are situational. Sometimes it is a gamble and if you choose wrong you are going to be out played and lose. It is not our fault they took away items that could have contributed to depth (run speed, death coil, asphyxiate). I don't agree that they class is OP. You just have to think a little while playing against a FDK. And that is the way it should be. If you stay close to use you should die. Just like if we stay at range with a Lock we will die.

There are other classes that do much more dmg, have tons more mobility, better cc and better healing. Not so sure why everyone points out the FDK when there are much bigger threats in arena.

If anything is fair in your viable comp suggestions it should require range+melee. It melee+melee is not viable then ranged+ranged should not be viable. Making only comps with ranged viable is one sided and very close minded. You might not like melee at all but it doesn't mean it should not be viable. I don't like ranged. It is not for me. Something about sitting back and casting just doesn't appeal. I'm sure the opposite is true for you and melee.

ps. I am leveling an arms war now (only 105). Think I have 3 dif stuns/fear and one interrupt. Charge and jump. 2 defensives plus def stance and a pretty potent healing reduction (have been caught by this a few times on my FDK). Seems to have much more utility and still does quite a bit of dmg.

[Woop Woop]

The meta is a joke right now. You just pick 2 melees: fdk, ww, feral, warrior, dh or retry, then pick a healer that isn't priest and mongoloid your way to the win. The fdks that are at 2k2 right now wouldn't get past 1k7 in other seasons, and if they tried to play something that actually takes skill like RMP, their brains would collapse.

It's even funnier because they keep nerfing casters like mage, ele shaman or locks for some reason.

Had to laugh.
You think mage one shots, ele one shots or the insane destruction damage was fine? It was THE most broken shit in game, above melees.

[Janke]

Yes, it absolutely would mean that. "range/melee/heal or range/range/heal should be the only viable comps" If this were the case then why even fuck with melee? If ranged+ranged was viable then that means it would serve the same purpose. Just as much dps and utility. If you can do all of this from range then melee would be SCREWED.




You are implying that there is no counter to FDK. Then why aren't all the spots on the ladder filled with FDK? Why aren't they joining with 3 FDK only and beating everyone? Because there is a counter. Has already been discussed. FDK slow, you fast.

What is tragic is the condescending attitude all ranged/casters seem to have. It is awfully telling about someone's personality to see how empowered they are by what type of toon they play in WoW. You feel that ALL people who play a melee are "brainless" and have "no logic". You feel that ONLY ranged should be viable and if there is no ranged in the group then melee is worthless. How does this make sense to you? If melee+melee is not a thing then ranged+ranged should not be a thing. Simple as that.

No it wouldnt mean that, your just ignorant. You lack any kind of logic. My attitude doesnt have to do anything with me being ranged, for god sake I was using warriors as comparing and talked about their kit from before, also look at their kit coming in 7.1.5... You see bro, ur putting me into a mold I am not using. Your logic is lacking and ur projecting my thoughts as you wish and u deem is right, while completely off the mark. FDK are easy to play op fotm spec. Deal with it.

- - - Updated - - -

The 4 sec aoe stun is only during burst AND you have to be pretty close. If you get stunned or rooted during burst you are screwed out of burst and your aoe stun. If you save ams for your burst then you don't have it when you need it for defensive. If you use wraith walk to get out of a snare you don't have it as a gap closer. If you use grip to coordinate a stun and burst you won't have it as a gap closer. If you use ibf without runic power you are SOL for self heals.

It is not as straight forward as you make it out to be. There are a lot of things that are situational. Sometimes it is a gamble and if you choose wrong you are going to be out played and lose. It is not our fault they took away items that could have contributed to depth (run speed, death coil, asphyxiate). I don't agree that they class is OP. You just have to think a little while playing against a FDK. And that is the way it should be. If you stay close to use you should die. Just like if we stay at range with a Lock we will die.

There are other classes that do much more dmg, have tons more mobility, better cc and better healing. Not so sure why everyone points out the FDK when there are much bigger threats in arena.

If anything is fair in your viable comp suggestions it should require range+melee. It melee+melee is not viable then ranged+ranged should not be viable. Making only comps with ranged viable is one sided and very close minded. You might not like melee at all but it doesn't mean it should not be viable. I don't like ranged. It is not for me. Something about sitting back and casting just doesn't appeal. I'm sure the opposite is true for you and melee.

ps. I am leveling an arms war now (only 105). Think I have 3 dif stuns/fear and one interrupt. Charge and jump. 2 defensives plus def stance and a pretty potent healing reduction (have been caught by this a few times on my FDK). Seems to have much more utility and still does quite a bit of dmg.

Your explanation is stupid for aoe stun, wtf do you expect it to be, a instant 1000 yard radious 4 sec stun? You do realize you have ww and grip to make that stun a 100% hit? It is is str8 forward, you are making it a rocket science for some reason dunno why. Play rogue, its melee, its hard to play doesnt have to do anything with casters. FDK's are biggest threat in arena, cause they are fotm op shit. Logic of range+range or melee+melee is outdated. We are talking about one melee here, FDK's... You dont like ranged, cause you like op fotm keyboard rolling specs, like fdks and prolly ret palas and stuff when they were at similar state to fdks being now, prolly. Where the fuck did you see 3 different stuns/fears? Pahahah, you are making things up, this is laughable. Warriors dmg is nowhere near fdks, and they are at pathetic state, arms warrior in 7.1.5 is going to be one of the highest skill caps of all specs. What is the potent healing reduction? You dont mean a 45sec cd pvp talent no1 is using. Thats the problem man, I have argument for everything you throw cause ur not even trying at this point. Warriors lack any kind of utility, and u just made tons of shit up.

[Bearilla]

you play a comp that does not require skill

range/melee/heal or range/range/heal should be the only viable comps

HA! So no melee is viable. It would be ranged>melee in every scenario with that logic. Good thing you are not in charge of this stuff at bliz.

No it wouldnt mean ranged>melee.

You are disregarding your own statement when my response was to someone else. Now you say it is outdated? With the logic of that statement it would make melee not viable. If you can run and kite something while doing just as much dmg and cc from range why would anyone take a melee? If the only viable comps required a ranged or ranged+ranged then that would be stupid. That is the point I was trying to make with that then I guess you are the one lacking logic.

Just because you use war as an example does not change the fact that you don't think any melee should be viable. I never said war had as much dmg as a FDK but they can still pump out great dmg. You and the others are whining cause when an FDK gets on you they can hurt you. This is the way it should be and if you can't stay away from a FDK then....... I guess it sucks to suck (1A).

Complaining about a comp is a different story. I understand the mechanics of playing against a FDK/WW..... it is a bummer but do you really worry about a FDK in any other comp? If you do, please see comment 1A in the previous text.

FDK 4 sec stun..... DURING burst.... requires 4 ticks to land. If you see FDK without a WW then you are golden (If not then please see 1A again). We REQUIRE a specific spec in order to pose a threat in arena. We NEED a this spec...... how can you possibly single out FDK when we have one comp? Get real!

Let's visit your FOTM comment. The players re-rolling FDK are no good with it. If you lose to them.... guess what? Yep, see 1A. They do NOT know how to play their class and even though I play FDK to I can prob count on 1 hand the FDK's I have lost to in arena this expansion.

I have only ever played FDK at level cap. When I started playing I think I got a rogue to level 70 then swapped to DK cause a local bud had told me about the class (I didn't even know it existed). I was UH in MoP and swapped to FDK in WoD. I don't play any other classes so it is not about fotm for me. Didn't make anything up about war. I leveled him as prot to 60ish back in MoP and he just sat there until I had a toon boost. That is why I started the sentence with "think".... I wasn't sure and wouldn't intentionally lie. I know for sure I have an aoe stun and fear. Thought there might have been another stun BUT I could be mistaken.

[Janke]

You are disregarding your own statement when my response was to someone else. Now you say it is outdated? With the logic of that statement it would make melee not viable. If you can run and kite something while doing just as much dmg and cc from range why would anyone take a melee? If the only viable comps required a ranged or ranged+ranged then that would be stupid. That is the point I was trying to make with that then I guess you are the one lacking logic.

Just because you use war as an example does not change the fact that you don't think any melee should be viable. I never said war had as much dmg as a FDK but they can still pump out great dmg. You and the others are whining cause when an FDK gets on you they can hurt you. This is the way it should be and if you can't stay away from a FDK then....... I guess it sucks to suck (1A).

Complaining about a comp is a different story. I understand the mechanics of playing against a FDK/WW..... it is a bummer but do you really worry about a FDK in any other comp? If you do, please see comment 1A in the previous text.

FDK 4 sec stun..... DURING burst.... requires 4 ticks to land. If you see FDK without a WW then you are golden (If not then please see 1A again). We REQUIRE a specific spec in order to pose a threat in arena. We NEED a this spec...... how can you possibly single out FDK when we have one comp? Get real!

Let's visit your FOTM comment. The players re-rolling FDK are no good with it. If you lose to them.... guess what? Yep, see 1A. They do NOT know how to play their class and even though I play FDK to I can prob count on 1 hand the FDK's I have lost to in arena this expansion.

I have only ever played FDK at level cap. When I started playing I think I got a rogue to level 70 then swapped to DK cause a local bud had told me about the class (I didn't even know it existed). I was UH in MoP and swapped to FDK in WoD. I don't play any other classes so it is not about fotm for me. Didn't make anything up about war. I leveled him as prot to 60ish back in MoP and he just sat there until I had a toon boost. That is why I started the sentence with "think".... I wasn't sure and wouldn't intentionally lie. I know for sure I have an aoe stun and fear. Thought there might have been another stun BUT I could be mistaken.

Eeehhh, that first statement isnt mine.
Ur throwing random statements about fdk's still, but whatever, thats ur way, making things up. I want to hear you name those 3 stuns/fears on warrior, because they have a) talented 3 sec single target stun b)aoe 4 sec stun which is in the same row as a), and c) non talented fear. Which means warrior at best has 2 cc options, but since the charge talent is way fucking better they dont take them, so most warriors have aoe fear as cc option. Next, warriors do have more gap close than fdk, if they spec for charge, but they dont have any kind of stun that way! If they dont spec charge they have stun, but then you have as much as gap closing as fdk, while fdk have better gap closer in arsenal, since grip is lul... Since I am not playing arena currently, I am not losing to any1, thats one thing. FDK is fotm is a thing you can check on arenamate and other known pvp sites. Nice for you to lose to only fdk this season, I was rival and duelist when I was twelve on destro lock in tbc, if we gonna measure E-peens you can hardly beat me there. I didnt have more success in pvp cause I simply didnt play for it, being a maths student gutted my play time over the year, the most I could do is master destro in duels in wotlk and cataclysm. If you think I suck, well I can invite to (unofficial) duel on any private server of any expansion. I am pretty sure I will stomp you, since you prolly aint Tosan or Reckful. Since I dont have arena at this moment, you would prolly have to wait a bit for a 3v3 match against my team... Have a good day sir.

[Deleted]

Eeehhh, that first statement isnt mine.
Ur throwing random statements about fdk's still, but whatever, thats ur way, making things up. I want to hear you name those 3 stuns/fears on warrior, because they have a) talented 3 sec single target stun b)aoe 4 sec stun which is in the same row as a), and c) non talented fear. Which means warrior at best has 2 cc options, but since the charge talent is way fucking better they dont take them, so most warriors have aoe fear as cc option. Next, warriors do have more gap close than fdk, if they spec for charge, but they dont have any kind of stun that way! If they dont spec charge they have stun, but then you have as much as gap closing as fdk, while fdk have better gap closer in arsenal, since grip is lul... Since I am not playing arena currently, I am not losing to any1, thats one thing. FDK is fotm is a thing you can check on arenamate and other known pvp sites. Nice for you to lose to only fdk this season, I was rival and duelist when I was twelve on destro lock in tbc, if we gonna measure E-peens you can hardly beat me there. I didnt have more success in pvp cause I simply didnt play for it, being a maths student gutted my play time over the year, the most I could do is master destro in duels in wotlk and cataclysm. If you think I suck, well I can invite to (unofficial) duel on any private server of any expansion. I am pretty sure I will stomp you, since you prolly aint Tosan or Reckful. Since I dont have arena at this moment, you would prolly have to wait a bit for a 3v3 match against my team... Have a good day sir.

I dont even understand the point of your you just keep ranting about stuff without making any sense. If you are not even currently playing arena then you have no idea whats actually going on and if you are not even playing then why the fuck do you even care?

From your rants it seems you are in a bad place in life and it has nothing to do with FDK. I would say focus on that instead of yelling incoherently in a gaming forum which you don't even play.

[Thelxi]

Frost dk have about 8-9 rotational buttons fyi.

lol !

[Snegovik]

as a melee player (Ret) i agree that melee dmg atm is a bit over the top, but there were seasons when casters would 1 shot ppl with procs only, if you remb Cata: s7 or s8 ? Destro/Elem/Hpal, those 2 would global melee and i do mean global from 100% to 0% if procs happened :P, blizzard is just bad at balancing wow pvp and i am not even sure it is possible to balance all the classes, so i take each season with grain of salt.

[Hotmail]

everytime i lose i try to think what i could do better and i come to conclusion i should've done more dps?