Thread: Shadow change

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  1. #1

    [Shadow] Insanity Drain Hotfix

    Voidform’s Insanity drain now begins at 8 Insanity per second (down from 9), but will increase at a 10% faster rate.
    Last edited by pkusa; 2016-11-15 at 02:57 AM.

  2. #2
    From what I can tell, this means we have less Insanity drain up to 90s in Voidform, and then we are worse off after that. At 120s we are losing Insanity at 2I/s more, but by 150 it's 7 I/s more.

    We also hit the 100 Insanity/s limit at 172 seconds.

    If my math is correct, the following shows the change.



    However, if (as someone has messaged me) Insanity Drain is linear then we are much worse off. The point where we are worse off is at the 21s mark. By 60s we are 2I/s worse off, by 90s we are 3I/s worse off, and by 120s we are losing 5 I/s more.

    We also hit 100I/s at 166s.



    If one of the uber knowledgeable priests on here could let me know which one is right, I would love to know what we are in for. I always thought (and felt) that the insanity drain wasn't linear, but I never really got high enough for it to matter too much.
    Last edited by Clavicle; 2016-11-15 at 02:22 AM.

  3. #3
    So they actually somehow managed to make Legacy of the Void even worse, amazing.

    Why not just knock 25% off Surrender to Madness' insanity bonus if they wanted to nerf that?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    So they actually somehow managed to make Legacy of the Void even worse, amazing.

    Why not just knock 25% off Surrender to Madness' insanity bonus if they wanted to nerf that?
    How does this affect LotV? I'm no math major but the design looks like it would favor the shorter and more frequent voidforms, if anything you can probably stay in VF longer with LotV after this patch.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnofiend View Post
    How does this affect LotV? I'm no math major but the design looks like it would favor the shorter and more frequent voidforms, if anything you can probably stay in VF longer with LotV after this patch.
    Breaks even at 20 stacks, so if you are somewhat capable of pressing buttons, its a nerf.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clavicle View Post
    From what I can tell, this means we have less Insanity drain up to 90s in Voidform, and then we are worse off after that. At 120s we are losing Insanity at 2I/s more, but by 150 it's 7 I/s more.

    We also hit the 100 Insanity/s limit at 172 seconds.

    If my math is correct, the following shows the change.



    However, if (as someone has messaged me) Insanity Drain is linear then we are much worse off. The point where we are worse off is at the 21s mark. By 60s we are 2I/s worse off, by 90s we are 3I/s worse off, and by 120s we are losing 5 I/s more.

    We also hit 100I/s at 166s.



    If one of the uber knowledgeable priests on here could let me know which one is right, I would love to know what we are in for. I always thought (and felt) that the insanity drain wasn't linear, but I never really got high enough for it to matter too much.
    It's the latter one.

  6. #6
    absoulutely disgusting nerf they managed to make surrender even more stressful, im waiting to see 7.1.5 changes if they are as terrible as this goodbye shadow

    I'd much rather see flat damage reduction than mechanic changes

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Is... is this what they meant when they said they'll be making changes to S2M?
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    Is... is this what they meant when they said they'll be making changes to S2M?
    No, there is another wave of nerf in the next balance patch (this is just a hotfix)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by N1gh7h4wk View Post
    Breaks even at 20 stacks, so if you are somewhat capable of pressing buttons, its a nerf.
    I literally get wrist pain from pushing buttons too fast and and I can still comfortably manage to hit the mid 20s without the aid of Void Torrent or Power Infusion, 40 stacks when I have both PI and VT. If the break even point is 20 stacks then I feel confident in saying this a nerf to Shadow 100% of the time, because the only way you could not hit 20 stacks is not being at the keyboard.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by N1gh7h4wk View Post
    Breaks even at 20 stacks, so if you are somewhat capable of pressing buttons, its a nerf.
    Yeesh, yeah that is way too soon. I think the concept of the nerf is fine but throwing a random number at the board without considering where it actually starts to affect the spec is not good.

  11. #11
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    Would of definitely would of liked it to break even closer to 30 stacks, 20 seems too soon to me for the nerf to start taking effect and not hurt the non-S2M voidforms.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dotality View Post
    absoulutely disgusting nerf they managed to make surrender even more stressful, im waiting to see 7.1.5 changes if they are as terrible as this goodbye shadow

    I'd much rather see flat damage reduction than mechanic changes
    The thing is that will never happen.... They have said it before Right now top 1% Spriests are doing retarded damage. Sub 50% Spriests are not. if you nerf them across the board anyone non top 200 World player would become useless. STM is Too much Reward for Skill.. This isn't old snapshotting where it was 5% dps gain for snapshotting right.. STM is a 100-200k dps gain Between 1% Spriests and 50% spriests.... That Skill gap is why STM will be removed in 7.1.5
    Last edited by Moshots; 2016-11-15 at 03:45 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    Why do you think they chose that number randomly? I'm pretty sure there's some guys at blizzard that can do some math.
    Because the stated intention was to nerf S2M without affecting the overall performance of the spec, which is obviously not the case if it breaks even so soon that LotV voidforms are shorter because of it.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Top shadows are more op than anyone has ever been in raiding. I dont remember any time where one spec doninated so extremely raiding. And that was because of one stupid talent buffing your dps crazily.


    Our shadow is dealing 560k on ursoc heroic, 500k on cenarius, not to mentuin xavius mythic. He is beaing all 882+ guys by 10 to 50% on many fights.

    So dont pretend like that small nerf is gonna destroy the spec. The gap between sjadow and the rest was huge in top raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnofiend View Post
    Because the stated intention was to nerf S2M without affecting the overall performance of the spec, which is obviously not the case if it breaks even so soon that LotV voidforms are shorter because of it.
    Of course they want to nerf shadows.They only nerf S2m.

    Shadow properly played was insane and crazy.

  15. #15
    It should I think make a 70-Insanity Voidform with LotV the right choice, vs. waiting until 85-ish. You've essentially got 20 extra Insanity to play with during those first 20 seconds. So that's about an 18% decrease in the amount of time you spend not in Voidform... If you're in Voidform 3/4 of the time, currently, with LotV (not sure what the number actually should be?) that's a 6% increase in the amount of time you spend in (low-insanity) Voidform. So if you're doing (ballpark) 60% more damage during those phases, it's about a 2-3% buff, disregarding the loss of more-massive damage from the tail end of the Voidform. Might be a wash!

  16. #16
    I don't mind the nerf to S2M but isn't this a significant nerf outside of S2M/LoTV gameplay? Wouldn't our voidforms in LoTV be MUCH shorter?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorl View Post
    It should I think make a 70-Insanity Voidform with LotV the right choice, vs. waiting until 85-ish. You've essentially got 20 extra Insanity to play with during those first 20 seconds. So that's about an 18% decrease in the amount of time you spend not in Voidform... If you're in Voidform 3/4 of the time, currently, with LotV (not sure what the number actually should be?) that's a 6% increase in the amount of time you spend in (low-insanity) Voidform. So if you're doing (ballpark) 60% more damage during those phases, it's about a 2-3% buff, disregarding the loss of more-massive damage from the tail end of the Voidform. Might be a wash!
    The difference starts at 1/s and ends with 0/s at 20 stacks, so the gain is 10 insanity. It would have been a theoretical gain if you religiously used void form at 85 stacks and now after teh changes started using it at 75.

    Not sure how it plays out for you, but in instances I quite often end up at 100 insanity and not popping void form because the pack we're fighting only has ~10 seconds worth of lifetime left and I'm better off just getting an early void form on the next pack. Against multiple long-lived enemies i pop it at 70 and AS makes me reach 100 anyways, so it won't impact that too much either. It does however run the risk of shaving off that last second or two on void form, and with quadratic scaling on DOT damage the last second is the most important.

    Why not just reduce the 150% increased insanity gain in S2M if they wanted to have a clean targetted nerf to S2M? It's just moronic to fiddle with changes that even run the potential of having knock-off effects when there is an easy and obvious alternative to "adjust".

  18. #18
    When shadow beats fire mage in raids you know its brokenly op.

    However the nerf affects average to good players, not just super lag free/superior button smashers.

    stm needs to go and go fast.

  19. #19
    So the nerf only really starts to kick in after 30-35 seconds into Shadow form(even then, from a practical PoV, it doesn't really hurt 1 bit, as that was already the "limit" of non-STM Void Form), which means it doesn't affect non-STM Void form phases in ST.
    Last edited by Tehterokkar; 2016-11-15 at 06:16 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    So the nerf only really starts to kick in after 30-35 seconds into Shadow form(even then, from a practical PoV, it doesn't really hurt 1 bit, as that was already the "limit" of non-STM Void Form), which means it doesn't affect non-STM Void form phases in ST.

    I have the legendary shoulders and I comfortably reach 30-35 stacks with lotv, so it does hurt me. The nerf starts to kick in at 21 stacks btw.

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