Abandon sub now?

[Abalon]

Hi all so i figure we have 2 months until the next patch i current have the lege belt, dreadcloak and satyrs walk. Based off of changes it looks like assassination has no net again while sub probably got a 5-10 percent nerf. I have 32 points in my sub artifact do we think that sub will be ireelvant compared to assassination come patch and would it be a wise idea to just max my assassination weapon?

item level is about 880
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Abdel/simple

this is a link to my armory
my sub weapon is 903 assassination is about 890 currently

i dont want to tank my performance by staying sub currently i do extremely well but that may not be the case come patch

Also if anyone gets the new shoulders in ptr and can confirm for a fact they work with sub im willing to provide insane compensation (message me for details on this) as this would make sub the go to spec

( i grind over 1 million ap a week so switching to assination is not a big deal per se)


any thoughts tips or advice would be appreciated thanks!

[kidstechno]

Play what you want. if you perform well as Sub then keep at it. Assassination only really needs 27 points for all the damage dealing traits so it's not hard to obtain. Until the next patch comes out and is finalized there's no way for us to know what's going to be better, and it seems Blizzard is ADD af when it comes to balancing classes.

Just have fun and do big damage.

[Deleted]

Agreed with the above.

As you have the boots and the cloak you should be performing really well in both raids and m+. The patch is quite a ways away, with what I'm expecting will be loads of iterations before it comes out before or around Nighthold, maybe just before christmas. There is no way they're gonna release 7.1.5 as it is now, and they have themselves said that there are many more changes coming.

As you say you farm 1 million ap per week now, by the time the patch comes out you'll probably be getting 2 million per week, making the catch-up on any alt weapon trivial. There's no reason to panic swap right now.

[Rixan]

I mean didn't assassination catch a nerf as well?

I would hang in there, I'm sure once everyone is nighthold geared DPS difference between rogue specs will be neglible

They aren't gonna skew them so far out of alignment, and with nighthold iLvls and set bonuses there's no way Sub isn't viable

[Abalon]

Fair enough with satyr walk nerfed any advise on top leges for raiding now assuming belt and insignia?

[Deleted]

well, giving the new legendaries coming, the shoulders will be mandatory for sub to be viable I guess, since it most certainly will work with shadowdance giving 100% crit chance for 11 sec everytime u pop SD. But its still only first tuning and fixes for ptr, nothing is final

[Maelstrom51]

I mean didn't assassination catch a nerf as well?

I would hang in there, I'm sure once everyone is nighthold geared DPS difference between rogue specs will be neglible

They aren't gonna skew them so far out of alignment, and with nighthold iLvls and set bonuses there's no way Sub isn't viable

Assassination and sub were about even with top legendaries. Sub got bigger nerfs, and sub's top legendary was nerfed. Overall, sub will now be significantly behind assassination.

[Abalon]

Yah I just don't believe the shoulders work with shadow dance if they do sub will destroy assination in dps you can not get 2 of a lege is that correct?

[Sicarius87]

Yah I just don't believe the shoulders work with shadow dance if they do sub will destroy assination in dps you can not get 2 of a lege is that correct?

That's is false. There is an order hall traits (very last trait) that you can research to equip 2 at a time. But no more than 2 at any given time.

[Abalon]

What I mentioned is that 2 of the same lege can't drop for me I intend to have at least 6 legespecially by the time patch hits.


Can anyone that plays sub in a mythic farmed level recommend best leges to use, I'm assuming I should abandon boots for ring or shoulders

[Steelwind]

I'm heartbroken over these nerfs. I've been an avid sub player for a long time. I have played it all expac even though it is a "master of none" by not having the ST of Sin (without boots) or the AOE of Outlaw. It feels very punishing to be nerfed outside of the boots, and coerced into different playstyles in the name of "diversity."

[Discostick]

You guys need to relax and further read the notes, I'm also a sub rogue (only 871 ilvl) but, these are very minimal nerfs to the talent traits being buffed

Akaari's rip will now proc after 2 seconds

The shadow explode one will not just do it after coming out of stealth but instead of a 30% chance to cause you to explode after a shadowstrike/cheap shot

These are huge buffs (but I do agree the shadow explode one is kinda stupid being that in a giant aoe pull you're just going to spamming SS and evis, depend on health pool and if they live long enough to not be nightbladed)

EDIT: But I do agree, assassination is topping every log and arena comp and is hardly getting touched (some buffs actually) while sub is only out preforming outlaw (when outlaw has bad rng) and is extremely hurting, it doesn't make sense for sub to be getting nerfed at all and not buffed.

Pvp sub is probably the saddest spec in the game

[Maelstrom51]

You guys need to relax and further read the notes, I'm also a sub rogue (only 871 ilvl) but, these are very minimal nerfs to the talent traits being buffed

Akaari's rip will now proc after 2 seconds

The shadow explode one will not just do it after coming out of stealth but instead of a 30% chance to cause you to explode after a shadowstrike/cheap shot

These are huge buffs (but I do agree the shadow explode one is kinda stupid being that in a giant aoe pull you're just going to spamming SS and evis, depend on health pool and if they live long enough to not be nightbladed)

EDIT: But I do agree, assassination is topping every log and arena comp and is hardly getting touched (some buffs actually) while sub is only out preforming outlaw (when outlaw has bad rng) and is extremely hurting, it doesn't make sense for sub to be getting nerfed at all and not buffed.

Pvp sub is probably the saddest spec in the game

Neither of those are huge buffs. Akaari's Soul happening two seconds earlier changes nothing, the damage would happen eventually anyway.

The Shadow Nova change is a 10% buff to 2% of our damage in single target, and a 100% nerf to 10%+ of our damage in AoE. Overall it is a massive nerf, not a buff.

That on top of a straight 7-9% dps nerf from the other changes.

[Discostick]

Neither of those are huge buffs. Akaari's Soul happening two seconds earlier changes nothing, the damage would happen eventually anyway.

The Shadow Nova change is a 10% buff to 2% of our damage in single target, and a 100% nerf to 10%+ of our damage in AoE. Overall it is a massive nerf, not a buff.

That on top of a straight 7-9% dps nerf from the other changes.

I've had plenty of Akaari's souls not going off because of a mythic + boss dying towards the end or just mobs in general. I agree with you, I think they need to make shadow nova also proc of SS but I'm not a dev and no matter how many posts I do nothing will come of it.

Also, master of sub was being out preformed by weaponmaster anyways, if you haven't made the switch to weaponmaster that's on you.

The boots and master of shadow nerfs are pretty rough and don't know where it's coming from but other than that I think sub is going to be okay, I'm highly bothered by these nerfs as well, especially on how garbage our AOE is compared to assass or other classes in general.

What I think we need for PvE shadow nova 15%(?) chance to proc off of SS and nightblade to apply healing reduction in PvP and the spec would be so much better off. The stratagem nerf was rough but I must admit, it also hit all 3 specs, so I don't consider that a Sub nerf.

[Spriestlawl]

The stratagem nerf was rough but I must admit, it also hit all 3 specs, so I don't consider that a Sub nerf.

The stratagem nerf could be a blessing. Sub really wants to use Anticipation. Right now it suffers from so much excess combo points that it just wastes them. The Nighthold set is going to yield even more CPs too... I really hope Anticipation becomes the talent choice for that reason.

[Discostick]

The stratagem nerf could be a blessing. Sub really wants to use Anticipation. Right now it suffers from so much excess combo points that it just wastes them. The Nighthold set is going to yield even more CPs too... I really hope Anticipation becomes the talent choice for that reason.

Yeah, I hear some people just spam shadowstrikes through SD and just use their finisher after, I've tried this but it always seems a loss of DPS? Not to mention it hurts the CD of SD coming back faster and wasting CPs (this could be my ignorance speaking, I'm not much of a theory crafter)

But hopefully like you said, hidden blessing! I really think the nighthold set is fucking INSANE for sub and could fix how far behind we are of assass, but due to work I can't find myself raiding, nonetheless progression raids.

[Spriestlawl]

Yeah, I hear some people just spam shadowstrikes through SD and just use their finisher after, I've tried this but it always seems a loss of DPS? Not to mention it hurts the CD of SD coming back faster and wasting CPs (this could be my ignorance speaking, I'm not much of a theory crafter)

But hopefully like you said, hidden blessing! I really think the nighthold set is fucking INSANE for sub and could fix how far behind we are of assass, but due to work I can't find myself raiding, nonetheless progression raids.

Yup, it's basically always a DPS loss. Dance has a finite amount of time, it's best to maximize that which is typically 4 SS and an Evis during it's duration. With 10 CP though you'd probably just dump 5 SS into dance then evisc twice out of it (or refresh NB if needed). But, we'll need to wait a bit. We still need to figure out where the shoulders fit in things and I'm waiting for Aethys/Skasch to take a pass at the spec before I dig too deep.

[shaunika123]

well, giving the new legendaries coming, the shoulders will be mandatory for sub to be viable I guess, since it most certainly will work with shadowdance giving 100% crit chance for 11 sec everytime u pop SD. But its still only first tuning and fixes for ptr, nothing is final

you do realize that if those shoulders would work on shadow dance then it'd be like a 70% damage increase right?

[Aethys256]

well, giving the new legendaries coming, the shoulders will be mandatory for sub to be viable I guess, since it most certainly will work with shadowdance giving 100% crit chance for 11 sec everytime u pop SD. But its still only first tuning and fixes for ptr, nothing is final

I'll stop your dream, it will never go live like this or it won't stay more than few days.
It's the most broken legendary ever created if that's the case.
As I said in another thread, it's 2 times better than pre-nerf boots which were the best legendary (after Arms gloves nerf), so ...

Either won't work, either will be reduced crit chance.

[mcrx]

Yeah if it works in SD the crit % need to be down maybe like 20% at most?