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  1. #1

    The warlock plea [Calling all devs]

    Class favoritism really shows and it makes the warlock community sad.

    Where are our changes?

    Where are these baked in talents into the spec?

    The warlock community gets it's hopes up over and over but nothing is done to help us enjoy the class.

    Game is fun but the current iteration of warlocks is not. Please we beg of you do something, I would do anything for the changes I've suggested below. I don't think any are close to being unreasonable I tried my best to make them as reasonable as possible. We aren't asking for anything ridiculously strong or overpowered just want our class to live up to the fantasy you keep talking about.

    We see a good platform now you just need to build on it. We don't need much work just some nice simple changes like the ones below.

    Please blizzard do something right for the warlocks and we will forever be greatful. <3

    Please stop telling us we're the tank caster because we're not. Why is it we currently feel as though we're super squishy compared to a mage, hunter or rogue with a great toolkit of defensives?

    We felt tankier in Warlords of draenor and there wasn't no where near as much emphasis on tankyness.

    If you want us to be here's what needs to happen no questions asked..

    -Demon skin baseline
    -Demonic circle baseline
    -Reverse demon skin pvp nerfs

    3 simple things so hurry up and get your asses into gear.

    How is this asking for much when melee have ridiculous burst potential and high uptime with all of their gap closers?

    Look at your beloved mage and all the changes/buffs you give them.

    You guys need to seriously drop playing mages for warlocks. Give them a try we have potential mages don't have much more potential, The class is more enticing and has better class fantasy than a mage you just need to put this into practice and tweak a few small things for the class to be super fun to play.

    If a new player sees a warlock and a mage what do you think they're going to want to play?

    An evil summoner who tears holes in space and time to summon dimensional rifts and casts big scary chaos bolts, Summons demons to do his bidding and maniacally laugh while they overrun their target and casts sickness/evil upon their target whilst draining their soul to nothing with drain soul.

    Or do they want to play the mage, A class that's been around forever in just about any mmo and is pretty much the same no matter what mmo it is.

    Warlocks are unique mages are not and they never will be.

    It's now time to warlocks cool and fun again. The joke is over and it's time to get serious.

    Here's some simple changes in addition to the changes proposed above already that would make our class fun to play again. Nobody I mean nobody enjoys RNG. A little bit is fine but you've gone way too overboard in legion. Nobody enjoys playing a damn casino playing warlock.

    Player skill and a good warcraft log should not be reliant on RNG and in no way should RNG dictate a good parse.

    All specs

    -5 soulshards baseline
    -Demon skin baseline
    -Demonic circle baseline
    -Reverse demon skin pvp nerfs
    -Remove pets we're locked into for each spec

    -Warlock taunt demons not holding aggression on enemy mobs correctly (Please address this)

    -Demon skin baseline (removing this from the talent teir reduced not only our survivability but our pets too)

    -Demonic circle baseline (Because why not. It's an iconic warlock spell)

    -Reverse demon skin pvp nerfs

    -Shadowfury cast time removed and added back to affliction talent tree (if we're going to be immobile we need more utility and defensive capabilities)

    -Mortal coil healing buffed so it remains a competitive talent choice in that teir with shadowfury. How about 35% max health return?

    -Dark bargain to replace demonic circle talent once demonic circle is baseline. Dark bargain cooldown reduced to 2.45

    -Dark soul reintroduced

    -Grimoire of sacrifice now allows the user to take on sacrificed demon abilities. Ie interrupt, knockback...

    Affliction

    -Writhe in agony baseline

    -Soulburn baseline (empowering spells=fun)
    Nobody uses soulburn in PvP so why not bring it back to PvE

    -Soulswap baseline (helps with ramp up PvE) Again who uses this in PvP time to give it back to us in PvE for raidingand dungeons. Let us spread dots for the cost of 1 soulshard again

    -Remove soul effigy (boring, frustrating and not interesting to play with) REMOVE IT!

    -Soul effigy talent replaced with the original "Haunting spirits" (Fun, Easy and a good shard spender)

    -Haunt baseline so we can use haunting spirits

    -Malefic grasp now increases dot damage by 30%

    -Old malefic grasp animation reintroduced

    -New warlords of draenor drain soul animation reintroduced

    Destruction

    -Incinerate now generates burning ember bits/soulshard bits (burst class needs reliable way to generate resources not a mindless spammy filler) We need to burst on demand not hope the stars align to burst

    -Less variance in destruction mastery for more consistent chaos bolts

    -Shadowburn baseline (original shadowburn)

    -Fire and brimstone now costs ember bits/soulshard bits and can be toggled. Chaos bolt is also affected by fire and brimstone

    -Rain of fire costs 1.5 soulshard bits/ember bits

    -Ember tap reintroduced

    -Wreak havoc removed as a talent (would gladly give up a little bit of cleave for competitive single target) The cleave doesn't have to be so extreme to the point of being useless single target. If this is what needs to happen for more single target do it

    -Havoc duration increased by 3 seconds and cooldown reduced

    -Baseline chaos bolt buff. If there is an honor talent giving us more chaos bolt damage it is saying something is wrong with chaos bolt for us to require a talent for it to be competitive. It has an issue and needs to be fixed

    -Focused chaos removed as a honor talent to compensate for the chaos bolt buff

    Demonology

    -Demonic empowerment is now a 30 second aura that needs to be maintained (similar to the function of haunting spirits)

    -Summoned imps and dreadstalkers duration is now increased by 0.5 seconds for each 1 second of movement the warlock makes (Or at least something that isn't so punishing as the current system is if we have to move) Any movement at all for a demonology warlock makes our damage suffer. A class that is unable to perform dungeon and raid mechanics while unable to sustain some dps is a bad one. Bad design and this needs to be fixed.
    Last edited by cristos; 2016-11-30 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    i can agree with some of this but not all... i miss the wotlk demo lock, favorite version of it
    i also have thoguht demo having a system like beast master but you get to choose what two pets you have and use their abilities would be much more fitting...
    also were is our pitlord or wrathguard? why those missing (i know pitlord is not a glyph currently but come on...)


    destro i feel needs to make chaos bolts feel special again
    i allmost think they should cost 5 shards but do INSANE damage, like how they used to back when it was a cooldown


    affliction idk what to do with it, its allways been sortta dull
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-11-30 at 06:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  3. #3
    Remember this is a Dev team that make us use LT in our rotation, adding a "crit chance" to our always crit main spell, removed half of our ablities just so they can create a new class to make money.

    And you asking these many things from them? I am gonna run out naked for 10 hours celebrating if we get RE or Circle baseline, you want all of them back? BE? Wake up man!

  4. #4
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd2400533 View Post
    Remember this is a Dev team that make us use LT in our rotation, adding a "crit chance" to our always crit main spell, removed half of our ablities just so they can create a new class to make money.

    And you asking these many things from them? I am gonna run out naked for 10 hours celebrating if we get RE or Circle baseline, you want all of them back? BE? Wake up man!
    somone needs to take off their tinfoil hat...
    i know they made the demonhunter for money.. .but they dident take half our spells away and give it to them...
    and weve been begging for DH since before vanilla
    also we stole the spells from them, not them from us, they just took em back
    please tell me what half of our spell book, they "removed" from us and gave to them?
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-11-30 at 06:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    somone needs to take off their tinfoil hat...
    i know they made the demonhunter for money.. .but they dident take half our spells away and give it to them...
    and weve been begging for DH since before vanilla
    also we stole the spells from them, not them from us, they just took em back
    please tell me what half of our spell book, they "removed" from us and gave to them?
    Uhm like everything from old demo? I dont see a reason why the two specs couldnt coexist, especially with greenfire quest metamorphosis was a big part of class fantasy, which blizzard likes to fall back on.
    New Demo is just so unbelieveably bad compared to the Blackrock Foundry Demo (which was my personal favorite, I liked the playstyle so much and it wasnt complicated at all like blizzard wants us to believe). Just bring back 6.1 Demo, don't even need any new talents. Baseline 6.1 Demo was way more fun, flexible and rewarding than current demo can ever be.
    Also bring back Embers for Destro, Soulshards are the worst!

  6. #6
    Instead of suggestions on this thread I believe the more warlocks that agree with each suggestion will put us a tiny step closer to seeing some of those changes applied to our class.

    The more changes that are disagreed with creates confusion among the developers. We need to decide on things as a community as opposed to suggesting different fixes and changes.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cristos View Post
    We need to decide on things as a community as opposed to suggesting different fixes and changes.
    This will be borderline impossible; unless you're suggesting a consensus of sorts. However, this doesn't necessitate us producing a consensus, rather Blizzard should be able to compile feedback and realize it for themselves. I'm not in favor of doing their job for them.

    That said, I also dislike the idea of suppressing what could be valid viewpoints from others, on the grounds that they're "different". Maybe that's not what you're suggesting, but I'm not sure what else to infer given how you've worded your post.

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    It's too late for Warlocks now, we're too far into the expansion, too far into the 'class changes' PTR.

    This is the design. These things you don't like, they're features you don't like, not broken things that the developers see a need to be fixed.

    It's put up, reroll, or quit time.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's too late for Warlocks now, we're too far into the expansion, too far into the 'class changes' PTR.

    This is the design. These things you don't like, they're features you don't like, not broken things that the developers see a need to be fixed.

    It's put up, reroll, or quit time.
    that is what I fear too. They said "no real big changes are coming. That is expansion stuff"

    Today when I logged in. I opened the chest to find another useless item and wondered if I should do artifact power world Quests but I just couldn't bother because of having thoughts of 7.1.5 as a dark foreboding shadow in the back of my mind.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Functional Analysis View Post
    This will be borderline impossible; unless you're suggesting a consensus of sorts. However, this doesn't necessitate us producing a consensus, rather Blizzard should be able to compile feedback and realize it for themselves. I'm not in favor of doing their job for them.

    That said, I also dislike the idea of suppressing what could be valid viewpoints from others, on the grounds that they're "different". Maybe that's not what you're suggesting, but I'm not sure what else to infer given how you've worded your post.
    Other suggestions are welcome but we need a general consensus regarding changes we would like to see.

    Each different suggestion is more confusion towards the developers. I've tried to keep it simple by mostly just asking for spells and talents we used to have but were removed.

  11. #11
    If you want dev attention you should have started this post with "YOU STUPID IDIOTS".
    And/or put it in the mage section.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    somone needs to take off their tinfoil hat...
    i know they made the demonhunter for money.. .but they dident take half our spells away and give it to them...
    and weve been begging for DH since before vanilla
    also we stole the spells from them, not them from us, they just took em back
    please tell me what half of our spell book, they "removed" from us and gave to them?
    Of all the things I said, you just fixed your eyes on 3 words right? At this point you still arguing about this? I know you probably have a DH and you had fun with it, so just go play it as your main if you haven't already done so, you dont care about warlocks and thats ok, but stop pretend that you do.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Can you please stop with these "Calling all Devs" posts? The first one was kind of innovative, the 700th just makes you look like a fool

    1) Devs are not very likely to read that on a non-WoW-Forum
    2) Even if they did read it, do you think they read your post more carefully because you have that in your title?
    3) Even if they did read it more carefully? Do you think they are more likely to implement your changes because you have it in the title? As opposed to all threads with exactly the same content on their own battle net forums that don't say "Calling all devs"?

  14. #14
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd2400533 View Post
    Of all the things I said, you just fixed your eyes on 3 words right? At this point you still arguing about this? I know you probably have a DH and you had fun with it, so just go play it as your main if you haven't already done so, you dont care about warlocks and thats ok, but stop pretend that you do.
    lol ok, its not like ive mained lock since vanilla or that but ok
    so please lets go back to your post

    "Remember this is a Dev team that make us use LT in our rotation, adding a "crit chance" to our always crit main spell, removed half of our ablities just so they can create a new class to make money.

    And you asking these many things from them? I am gonna run out naked for 10 hours celebrating if we get RE or Circle baseline, you want all of them back? BE? Wake up man!"

    LT... life tap? you mean the thing weve had since vanilla and is a key part of the warlock class?
    ok
    yes the mastery is weird, but destruction is about chaos and destruction so it fits, but it can be super annoying when you get horrible RNG, but thats what crit has allways been like, and with destro being so much about crit with chaos bolt allways critting, its sorta cool to have another version of it
    again you still havent said how half of our abilities were removed and given to demon hunters
    So lets go from the wod spells one by one and see what we had that DH now have
    Immolation aura... ok, that was a demon hunter spell in warcraft so ok
    metamorph.... again a spell we took from demon hunters
    demonic leap i guess?
    and.... thats about it right?
    if we go back further we can see stuff like shadowflame i guess...? could be eyebeam, but thats kinda stretching it

    there is probably more examples you could make if you stretch stuff real hard like saying "eye beam is just chaos bolt because they both allways crit" but NO WHERE NEAR HALF


    and on the final point... idk THEY ARE A FUCKING COMPANY, WHO HAVE JOBS, AND NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR FAMALIES so its pretty obvious they are going to make something... for idk... money?

    but again weve been begging for DH since before vanilla

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    Uhm like everything from old demo? I dont see a reason why the two specs couldnt coexist, especially with greenfire quest metamorphosis was a big part of class fantasy, which blizzard likes to fall back on.
    New Demo is just so unbelieveably bad compared to the Blackrock Foundry Demo (which was my personal favorite, I liked the playstyle so much and it wasnt complicated at all like blizzard wants us to believe). Just bring back 6.1 Demo, don't even need any new talents. Baseline 6.1 Demo was way more fun, flexible and rewarding than current demo can ever be.
    Also bring back Embers for Destro, Soulshards are the worst!
    can you give me a list?
    looking back i see immolation aura
    metamorph
    and i guess demonic leap
    there is also the melee attack you had as old metamorph but thats just really a auto attack
    and shadowflame i guess could be eye beam, but thats really stretching it

    uhhhhh no metamorphasis was a huge part of the demon hunter class fantasy, we just got it because come wrath blizz whent (well we just did a legion expansion... i dont see us adding DH any time soon... lets give it to locks" it and immolation aura were both demon hunter abilities, that we took because demon hunters were not in the game

    the only reason you liked the BRF demo was because it was super OP, its play style was meh at best
    but thats opinions

    thats your opinion, i liked the wotlk demo the best

    but yeah we need embers back for destro, soulshards fucking suck
    we shoulda had demonic energy for demo
    embers for destro
    soulshards for affliction

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cristos View Post
    Instead of suggestions on this thread I believe the more warlocks that agree with each suggestion will put us a tiny step closer to seeing some of those changes applied to our class.

    The more changes that are disagreed with creates confusion among the developers. We need to decide on things as a community as opposed to suggesting different fixes and changes.
    wait so your saying
    "if you dont agree with me fuck off, i only want people who agree with me here so devs think everyone wants these"
    is 100% what your saying here...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cristos View Post
    Other suggestions are welcome but we need a general consensus regarding changes we would like to see.

    Each different suggestion is more confusion towards the developers. I've tried to keep it simple by mostly just asking for spells and talents we used to have but were removed.
    and thats the fucking issue, we dont all want the same thing
    is it finally starting to set in WHY game devolping for millions of players is hard?
    what do warlocks want? no one fucking knows, cause every warlock player wants something slightly differant
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-11-30 at 04:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    Can you please stop with these "Calling all Devs" posts? The first one was kind of innovative, the 700th just makes you look like a fool

    1) Devs are not very likely to read that on a non-WoW-Forum
    They actually do read the forums here and on other 3rd party sites, they've been incredibly open and clear about that. Remember, the benefits of 3rd party sites over the Blizzard ones is that they allow for discussion across regions.

    Having said this, I think by now it's abundantly clear that they simply don't see many of these things as 'problems' that need 'fixing', they're just features and designs that just aren't necessarily very popular. Again, by now we're at a point where players need to put up with it, reroll, or quit. There's nowhere really else to go with it, there just isn't the time or evidently either the inclination, to put more work into Warlocks to give what people are asking for.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Does anyone know when the next live stream with ion is, I think that's our best chance at answers.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    1) Devs are not very likely to read that on a non-WoW-Forum
    ?
    member when we had xelnath in here?
    good times
    let me think for a sec what addon that was when the wldev was vocal and was reading forums and how ppl think about classdesign back then
    oh it was mop, and all i hear is "make warlock like mop again"





    we can try next expansion again to get some magelove
    Last edited by Violetti; 2016-11-30 at 04:50 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    lol ok, its not like ive mained lock since vanilla or that but ok
    so please lets go back to your post

    "Remember this is a Dev team that make us use LT in our rotation, adding a "crit chance" to our always crit main spell, removed half of our ablities just so they can create a new class to make money.

    And you asking these many things from them? I am gonna run out naked for 10 hours celebrating if we get RE or Circle baseline, you want all of them back? BE? Wake up man!"

    LT... life tap? you mean the thing weve had since vanilla and is a key part of the warlock class?
    ok
    yes the mastery is weird, but destruction is about chaos and destruction so it fits, but it can be super annoying when you get horrible RNG, but thats what crit has allways been like, and with destro being so much about crit with chaos bolt allways critting, its sorta cool to have another version of it
    again you still havent said how half of our abilities were removed and given to demon hunters
    So lets go from the wod spells one by one and see what we had that DH now have
    Immolation aura... ok, that was a demon hunter spell in warcraft so ok
    metamorph.... again a spell we took from demon hunters
    demonic leap i guess?
    and.... thats about it right?
    if we go back further we can see stuff like shadowflame i guess...? could be eyebeam, but thats kinda stretching it

    there is probably more examples you could make if you stretch stuff real hard like saying "eye beam is just chaos bolt because they both allways crit" but NO WHERE NEAR HALF


    and on the final point... idk THEY ARE A FUCKING COMPANY, WHO HAVE JOBS, AND NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR FAMALIES so its pretty obvious they are going to make something... for idk... money?

    but again weve been begging for DH since before vanilla

    - - - Updated - - -



    can you give me a list?
    looking back i see immolation aura
    metamorph
    and i guess demonic leap
    there is also the melee attack you had as old metamorph but thats just really a auto attack
    and shadowflame i guess could be eye beam, but thats really stretching it

    uhhhhh no metamorphasis was a huge part of the demon hunter class fantasy, we just got it because come wrath blizz whent (well we just did a legion expansion... i dont see us adding DH any time soon... lets give it to locks" it and immolation aura were both demon hunter abilities, that we took because demon hunters were not in the game

    the only reason you liked the BRF demo was because it was super OP, its play style was meh at best
    but thats opinions

    thats your opinion, i liked the wotlk demo the best

    but yeah we need embers back for destro, soulshards fucking suck
    we shoulda had demonic energy for demo
    embers for destro
    soulshards for affliction

    - - - Updated - - -



    wait so your saying
    "if you dont agree with me fuck off, i only want people who agree with me here so devs think everyone wants these"
    is 100% what your saying here...

    - - - Updated - - -



    and thats the fucking issue, we dont all want the same thing
    is it finally starting to set in WHY game devolping for millions of players is hard?
    what do warlocks want? no one fucking knows, cause every warlock player wants something slightly differant
    I think you just need to calm down a bit. We do know, Most of the things I suggested I see requested for frequently.

    To respond to that too, I'm not telling anyone to fuck off. As I said feel free to post your own suggestions but the more we can agree on the better the chance of it being implemented.

    Take a look at malefic grasp it's a perfect example of the community agreeing on something.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They actually do read the forums here and on other 3rd party sites, they've been incredibly open and clear about that. Remember, the benefits of 3rd party sites over the Blizzard ones is that they allow for discussion across regions.
    I remember community manager of blizzard in some reddit post but that was long time ago in fact they don't even respond the ptr forum and the mage one is empty

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post


    and on the final point... idk THEY ARE A FUCKING COMPANY, WHO HAVE JOBS, AND NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR FAMALIES so its pretty obvious they are going to make something... for idk... money?
    And it is not our concern in any way as customers how much better Blizz can boost their profit margins, usually at the expense of screwing up the product from our viewpoint - the people who have paid for the game and play it.

    We don't and shouldn't give a rat's ass about THEIR FUCKING COMPANY AND JOBS AND FAMALIES [sic]. That is their...fucking...problem. Not ours. If they aren't doing well enough at Blizz they can quit and move on. But the fact is they're making money hand-over-fist.

    Our concern is to get the best product for the best price that we can. As it is Blizz is in no way hurting as a company. They're simply trying to squeeze maximum profit out of everything they can, and will do and say anything in pursuit of it. It is nothing but blind greed to please shareholders that is never enough.

    This bullshit about, "oh it's so HARD for Blizz to make everyone happy, everyone wants something differant. [sic]" is childish, and it's ridiculous to think you will ever please everyone. But you can make a product that most players will be at least fairly satisfied with, not what they've been doing since WoD.

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