Survival - Waylay: are we going to use this in PvE?

[Rosinante]

That's my only question...

[Puupi]

Tested it on PTR today. What utter bollocks, shittiest design I've come across in a very long time. Especially the out of combat part of it with steel trap, it's a joke.

[Flurryfang]

It is a thing, which will only affect PVP. You are never going to be able to hit most mobs with the waylay traps. And yes, the waylay steel trap is complete bullshit and will not work in PVE at all.

[Derian]

No. No tank will waste their time to LET you use it. No raid group will be ok with the boss being dragged around so you can use it. Also there are too many fat, stationary bosses like helya to use it.

It's fuckall bad in pvp too aside from cheesing people in random bgs and world pvp. Competent enemies will see where you dropped your trap and not go there.

They nerfed explosive trap down to a 32 second CD from 12, and added waylay because fuck us, that's why. They also drastically reduced it's radius (about 2 yards, now) so you can barely even aoe with it.

Waylay is quite positively the shittiest idea the devs have ever had. Ever.

edit: some assholes whined in the "Let's Talk!" thread that traps didn't feel like traps when you use them rotationally. Blame them.

[Feanoro]

Is that the 2 sec arming time I've noticed glancing over the notes? Those who do not learn from history...

[Derian]

Is that the 2 sec arming time I've noticed glancing over the notes? Those who do not learn from history...

Yeah, Explosive trap went from a 12 to a 32s cooldown, same damage; if it's on the ground for 2 seconds before detonating, it gets buffed, doing 50% more damage, or 200% with the new talent they gave us. It can still go off during that arm time though, so you have to put it somewhere safe and then have the tank drag things to it, which is absolutely fucking stupid.

it's roughly a 67% nerf to ET from live, 42% if you successfully Waylay every trap, and like a .9% gain if you have the talent. Just with the added joy of requiring someone else to move the mob to the right place for you, a much longer cooldown so it'll be available less often for trash in m+, a much smaller radius so it'll hit less even when you DO land it.

And in pvp, one person will eat a waylayed steel trap and die to the bleed that does more than 3 million damage over its duration. Then blizzard will push a template fix to make it minor at best. So you'll switch back to Freezing trap, only to, surprise, reflect a waylayed freezing trap at yourself, for a 6 second incapacitate that doesn't break on damage but doesn't DR with stuns!

[Viking]

Probably the dumbest mechanic they've added to the game in a long time. Maybe ever. smfh...

[DeicideUH]

I don't understand. No one was complaining about Survival traps. No. One.
Instead of fixing the many other problems of the spec, Blizzard decides to make this weird change that will probably be too cluncky to be useful outside of very specific situations.

So many things to fix, let's break the things that work instead!

[Puupi]

Well that didn't last long. Thank god.

[Baneador]

Thats makes my favorite spec even worst than already is. Thanks Blizzard for make Survival melee, its awesome, but you make it weak, now you share the traps with the other specs and do it worst with this aberration, thanks for ruin us.

[MatDaemon]

Survival has been answered:

Sorry for the delay in replying to this. Long story short, we agree with the concerns laid out in this thread: Waylay as a damage mechanic isn’t playing well, and the increased trap cooldown is a nerf that undermines other utility upgrades. We’ve been discussing exactly what we want to do about it, and can share some details:

For starters, the Trap cooldown is going back to a baseline of 30 seconds, just like it is in Patch 7.1. We had initially increased it to 40 based on some concerns that Hunter crowd control might end up too powerful in some situations, but after further consideration, we don’t think that’ll be necessary.

Regarding Waylay, the original intent of the passive was to reinforce Survival’s niche as trap experts (especially with other Hunter specializations getting traps again) by rewarding clever placement of traps when you’re able to anticipate your enemy’s movement. After all, the very nature of a trap is a hazard set ahead of time for an unsuspecting victim, whereas traps today often end up feeling more like lobbed explosives. However, in group gameplay, the movement of your targets is largely outside of your direct control, and any sort of rotational damage benefit of Waylay is likely to be far more frustrating than fun. We’re going to remove the damage-increasing benefit that Waylay provided to Explosive Trap and let its bonuses focus purely on utility. With the Freezing Trap and Tar Trap cooldown now unchanged, this makes Waylay simply a new utility perk over what Survival has on live, and we’re excited about some of the potential ways Hunters can make use of it in both PvE and PvP.

As an aside (and this is relevant to all classes and specs), part of our goal to keep patches coming at a steady pace in Legion means that you’re likely to see more half-completed ideas and strange experiments on PTR than even veteran testers might be used to in previous expansions. Just because a change shows up in a PTR build does not mean that it’s something the team views as a final design (or even a design we’re necessarily happy with). This has been especially true with 7.1.5, and we’ve done a poor job of communicating that thus far. We’d like to apologize for that failing, and it’s something we’re actively working to correct.

[Deleted]

Outside of stealthing and laying a trap in pvp as someone came by.. this ability was never going to work/be fun.. good to see they listened

[parkerlewis]

Well.. it's a start and I'm glad it's being reverted.

But it still feels strange that devs looked at the current state of Survival (and its absence/bottom ranking in any kind of competitive PVE) and decided that nefing traps was the best place to start.

[Bepples]

Nonsensical design changes for a nonsensical spec. Fitting.

[Deleted]

Blizzard headquarter: Give me a list of things that are not broken at once, we must "fix" them.

In recent days Blizzard has a tendency of "fixing" things that are not broken at all but they wont touch actual broken systems.

[Gurg]

Blizzard headquarter: Give me a list of things that are not broken at once, we must "fix" them.

In recent days Blizzard has a tendency of "fixing" things that are not broken at all but they wont touch actual broken systems.

Im supreme hater of waylay design, however i dont see anything against it in PvP. On PvE side.. good riddance.