Too Many Abilities

[Cempa]

I know this might upset some people but I really think we have far too many abilities on live .. I managed to get past game performance issues (responsiveness is worse than WoW and its clear as day .. ToR character just feels a second slower in game from when I give the order via mouse+keyboard than WoW) ...

I can kind of accept that as well as the occasional frame rate drop (which I do not have with any other video game on my high-end rig) but what is not fun would be the larger number of abilities that just seem like they where added for the sake of bloat ...

[quras]

I can't say I agree.

I like having more options/skills for nearly every class than less. You don't need more than about 6 to play effectively. More if you are hitting some of the harder difficulties which apparently not a lot are doing anyway.

I like to have the option of more skills to use. I'm not a fan when a harder to play class is watered down but to each their own.

[Golden]

I find my shield vanguard still has a bunch of redundant abilities. I assume they are there because one of the other specs needs that ability for it's rotation or something.

The responsiveness of the game is driving me nuts also. It matters a lot more on veteran and mastery difficulties when you have 1 second to get out of something but the server is so slow, you still get hit by stuff whether you move or not.

[Aliven]

I can't say I agree.

I like having more options/skills for nearly every class than less. You don't need more than about 6 to play effectively. More if you are hitting some of the harder difficulties which apparently not a lot are doing anyway.

I like to have the option of more skills to use. I'm not a fan when a harder to play class is watered down but to each their own.

My watchmen got, at the point of 60 lvl, 10 skills in his rotation. The only class close to the mythical 6 skills is Sniper/Gunslinger. The ability bloat is stupid in swtor. My PT got 3 skills i think which are all the same, aoe cd abilities.

[cuafpr]

playing SWTOR shows you why blizzard did the pruning they did , its crazy and annoying give me fewer abilities with more impact vs ones i'd never or rarely use.

[Davemetalhead]

I thought there was an ability pruning coming? Wasn't it with the new expansion (when does that arrive btw?)? Must admit I haven't been paying any attention to SWTOR for a few months now but I'm sure I read somewhere of a pruning inbound.

[quras]

My watchmen got, at the point of 60 lvl, 10 skills in his rotation. The only class close to the mythical 6 skills is Sniper/Gunslinger. The ability bloat is stupid in swtor. My PT got 3 skills i think which are all the same, aoe cd abilities.

Not just that class but sages and sorcs as well. Even commandos. It's definitely not just one class.

As I said, some classes are harder but for the most part, most are around around 6. I guess I should have said roughly but again, I'm not a fan of losing skilsl because someone finds it hard to play. Even for a Sent you don't need all there skills to play them decently. You want to be seen as a great Sent, they sure, you'll have a very tight rotation but that sets you apart and thats a good thing. Maybe I didn't explain that well enough but you can play all the SWTOR classes decently and not have a perfect rotation of all skills. Some can be left out entirely. I'm OK with having those extra skills and button presses instead of watering them down.

I get that it makes it harder for some players to master the class but I'm Ok with that too.

[Aliven]

Not just that class but sages and sorcs as well. Even commandos. It's definitely not just one class.

As I said, some classes are harder but for the most part, most are around around 6. I guess I should have said roughly but again, I'm not a fan of losing skilsl because someone finds it hard to play. Even for a Sent you don't need all there skills to play them decently. You want to be seen as a great Sent, they sure, you'll have a very tight rotation but that sets you apart and thats a good thing. Maybe I didn't explain that well enough but you can play all the SWTOR classes decently and not have a perfect rotation of all skills. Some can be left out entirely. I'm OK with having those extra skills and button presses instead of watering them down.

I get that it makes it harder for some players to master the class but I'm Ok with that too.

Ability bloat dont make anything harder, it make it far more tedious. Only thing this test is "do you have gaming mouse or not" because i simply run out of hotkeys in preferable spots around WSAD. And this is not to mention any defensive or offensive cd.

Complexity isnt deep.

[nnelson54]

Not just that class but sages and sorcs as well. Even commandos. It's definitely not just one class.

As I said, some classes are harder but for the most part, most are around around 6. I guess I should have said roughly but again, I'm not a fan of losing skilsl because someone finds it hard to play. Even for a Sent you don't need all there skills to play them decently. You want to be seen as a great Sent, they sure, you'll have a very tight rotation but that sets you apart and thats a good thing. Maybe I didn't explain that well enough but you can play all the SWTOR classes decently and not have a perfect rotation of all skills. Some can be left out entirely. I'm OK with having those extra skills and button presses instead of watering them down.

I get that it makes it harder for some players to master the class but I'm Ok with that too.

There are three classic blunders:

1. Getting involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
3. Confusing having more buttons to press with depth.

Having 3-4 buttons that all do the same thing with different cooldowns does not make things harder. It just makes it more tedious and makes you press more buttons for no reason.

[Geran]

My watchmen got, at the point of 60 lvl, 10 skills in his rotation. The only class close to the mythical 6 skills is Sniper/Gunslinger. The ability bloat is stupid in swtor. My PT got 3 skills i think which are all the same, aoe cd abilities.

10 skills on rotation?

I regret to inform you that you are playing it wrong.

You use 5-6 skills on rotation(and in those there are priorities) and 1-2 cds often, if you use more, you are not playing optimally. Rest are very situational, or just not valid in x spec.

[Aliven]

10 skills on rotation?

I regret to inform you that you are playing it wrong.

You use 5-6 skills on rotation(and in those there are priorities) and 1-2 cds often, if you use more, you are not playing optimally. Rest are very situational, or just not valid in x spec.

Abilities
There are 10 essential abilities which you will use on a regular basis. Our core abilities based on total damage done per activation are:

1. Master Strike (uses 2 GCDs)

2. Overload Saber

3. Merciless Slash

4. Cauterize

5. Dispatch

6. Twin Saber Throw

7. Force Melt

8. Slash

9. Strike

10. Strike

Those all require keybind in a easy to rach space on your keyboard. And this is basic rotation, not some uber powerfull dps cd. Do you research. Opening rotation consist of 20 gcd. Bear in mind those are not all avaible skills to watchmen that deals dmg, just the best of them.

[Misaligned]

I agree there is too much bloat. It's a big issue I have with FFXIV, too. I have 3 hotbars of abilities that I feel all need to be keybound to play optimally. A couple I end up clicking because I'm just literally out of keybinds that are comfortable to use for my fingers.

[Geran]

Abilities
There are 10 essential abilities which you will use on a regular basis. Our core abilities based on total damage done per activation are:

1. Master Strike (uses 2 GCDs)

2. Overload Saber

3. Merciless Slash

4. Cauterize

5. Dispatch

6. Twin Saber Throw

7. Force Melt

8. Slash

9. Zealous Strike

10. Strike

Those all require keybind in a easy to rach space on your keyboard. And this is basic rotation, not some uber powerfull dps cd. Do you research. Opening rotation consist of 20 gcd. Bear in mind those are not all avaible skills to watchmen that deals dmg, just the best of them.

Pls, don't copy me the oofalong guide on dulfy, unless you read it fully.

I didn't say they didn't need to be keybinded, i said they weren't on the usual rotation. You need 6 for the core, you should NEVER use slash or strike for optimal rotation (as watchman), dispatch is only under 30% and twin saber throw just when it procs.

Also... those are for lvl 65 (i suppose we will get a new guide in the future for 70), since you told us "at 60" (when force melt and twin saber throw didn't exist and you had to use force leap as focus builder)

[Aliven]

Pls, don't copy me the oofalong guide on dulfy, unless you read it fully.

I didn't say they didn't need to be keybinded, i said they weren't on the usual rotation. You need 6 for the core, you should NEVER use slash or strike for optimal rotation (as watchman), dispatch is only under 30% and twin saber throw just when it procs.

Also... those are for lvl 65 (i suppose we will get a new guide in the future for 70), since you told us "at 60" (when force melt and twin saber throw didn't exist and you had to use force leap as focus builder)

At lvl 70 nothing change because there is no new skills.

Problem with ability bloat is exactly what i described - you need to have them keybinded. I run out of keybinds. In pvp it is even more evident where you get all utility skills.

[Treeba]

If you mean too many rotational abilities I can get behind that with certain classes. I do think Watchmen is one of those specs. The sweet spot for rotational abilities is probably somewhere in the 6-8 range, but by that I mostly mean the abilities I would generally use fighting 1-2 mobs. I don't count aoe abilities (that aren't also used single target) as part of that. I also don't count cooldowns or abilities that have cooldowns longer than 30-40 seconds.

I wouldn't mind some rotational pruning for several classes/specs. I don't want to see utility/cooldown pruning from anyone. Sadly most developers don't seperate the two and cutting one ends up cutting both. Removing cooldowns or utility DOES reduce depth. Using the Watchman example... taking away strike and slash isn't going to cut down on depth.. taking away pacify, saber throws, awe, etc does.

[Fkiolaris]

If you mean too many rotational abilities I can get behind that with certain classes. I do think Watchmen is one of those specs. The sweet spot for rotational abilities is probably somewhere in the 6-8 range, but by that I mostly mean the abilities I would generally use fighting 1-2 mobs. I don't count aoe abilities (that aren't also used single target) as part of that. I also don't count cooldowns or abilities that have cooldowns longer than 30-40 seconds.

I wouldn't mind some rotational pruning for several classes/specs. I don't want to see utility/cooldown pruning from anyone. Sadly most developers don't seperate the two and cutting one ends up cutting both. Removing cooldowns or utility DOES reduce depth. Using the Watchman example... taking away strike and slash isn't going to cut down on depth.. taking away pacify, saber throws, awe, etc does.

Thank you, at least another one that bloody gets it. The way Blizzard fucked the pruning in WoD/Legion is that they went after all the utility and relatively little of the rotation bloat (where it existed, that is). BW has been going after both in SWTOR for quite some time. I am not sure where they stand now but when I last played in the previous expansion my scrapper felt like an bad imitation of what it used to play like.

[Super Kami Dende]

I find Swtor has a near perfect amount of abilities. I can Bind all my important abilities on my Guardian easily yet each ability feels useful.

[Dakhath]

You must not tank on your Guardian because on my Jugg, I need a ton of keybinds to play the spec to its full potential.

[Racthoh]

did they not just prune a bunch of abilities off of classes?

[Triggered Fridgekin]

did they not just prune a bunch of abilities off of classes?

Not sure if it was a prune or more of a skill shuffle. Could be wrong though.