"Legion has the most unbalanced PvP ever"

[Lightbull]

Wut?

Let's just ignore the fact that triple BM Hunter existed in early MoP, and Arms was able to 1 shot.

Let's just ignore the fact that season 5 DKs were a thing, as well as Ret for most of Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that some casters were able to nearly 1 shot people back in Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that Vanilla PvP was a thing.

Let's just ignore the fact that some eSports games in Wrath ended in 4 seconds due to the immense burst damage the game had back then.

Let's just ignore the fact that before WoD most specs were completely unviable.

Yeah PvP isn't in the best spot right now but it's much more balanced than it was in the past.

EDIT: Also, the first season of an expansion is always shit. I'm saving my judgment for PvP in the later patches.

[Deleted]

Let's just ignore the fact that the game is 12 years old and after all these years we expect PvP being more balanced. But it is not.
Oh, and world PvP is dead because of no PvP gear, so everyone can one, two shot you in open world now.

[Lightbull]

Let's just ignore the fact that the game is 12 years old and after all these years we expect PvP being more balanced. But it is not.

But it is... my post explains why it is, and you haven't made a counterpoint.

World PvP was never balanced. It was better in the past, but it was never truly balanced.

[lolpve]

I would say Legion is the worst pvp has been since season 5. That season (when DKs were implemented) was the most broken the game ever was and I doubt it will ever get that bad again (DKs being able to solo 3v3 at a fairly high rating).

But yeah cataclysm was a lot better, TBC was way better, MoP was way better, even WoD was better depressingly enough. It's really strange how they have control over pvp templates now but it's as if the devs don't play the same game as everyone else, the incompetence is staggering even for Blizzard.

[StopthePrune]

I am enjoying PVP at the moment, but it has never been truly balanced nor will it ever be.

True balance would only be attined by evvery class and spec having the same spells and mechanics. That would truly be boring.

[Lightbull]

But yeah cataclysm was a lot better, TBC was way better, MoP was way better, even WoD was better depressingly enough. It's really strange how they have control over pvp templates now but it's as if the devs don't play the same game as everyone else, the incompetence is staggering even for Blizzard.

No one gives any explanation why it's bad.

They just say "lol wow PvP is the worst it's ever been" despite Frost DK and Monk being slightly more overpowered than the other classes right now. And this is early in the expansion. In previous expansions we had to wait until the later patches to find any decent balance. Even in WoD where class balance was very good at the end of the expansion, at the start of the expansion we had Gladiator Warriors dominating everything, WW Monks were unplayable for most of the expansion, among other things.

Week 1 7.1 Frost DK and Destruction Warlock are probably the worst cases of balance in Legion so far, and not only was that quickly hotfixed, but it's also a really small problem compared to what we've seen in the past.

[solarfallz]

Wut?

Let's just ignore the fact that triple BM Hunter existed in early MoP, and Arms was able to 1 shot.

Let's just ignore the fact that season 5 DKs were a thing, as well as Ret for most of Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that some casters were able to nearly 1 shot people back in Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that Vanilla PvP was a thing.

Let's just ignore the fact that some eSports games in Wrath ended in 4 seconds due to the immense burst damage the game had back then.

Let's just ignore the fact that before WoD most specs were completely unviable.

Yeah PvP isn't in the best spot right now but it's much more balanced than it was in the past.

EDIT: Also, the first season of an expansion is always shit. I'm saving my judgment for PvP in the later patches.

Literally the only thing on here that indicates imbalance is the underlined part. "People doing a lot of damage" does not mean imbalance.

Also, the italicized is completely wrong, though I can't say if you're intentionally lying or just don't have a clue.

[Lightbull]

Literally the only thing on here that indicates imbalance is the underlined part. "People doing a lot of damage" does not mean imbalance.

It kinda does. My eSports point tells us that even pro players were unable to avoid the ridiculous amount of damage that was in the game at the time. I don't understand how that isn't imbalance, since people were crying about the amount of damage Frost DKs and Destro Warlocks were doing at the start of 7.1 and calling that "unbalanced". The burst damage issues in Wrath and MoP were much worse.

Also, the italicized is completely wrong, though I can't say if you're intentionally lying or just don't have a clue.

A prime example of an unviable spec in PvP was Combat Rogue in Cata. They simply didn't output enough damage to stand as a threat to anyone that knew how to play. That's just one example among many. Fury Warrior, Arcane Mage, Elemental Shaman, Demo/Destro Warlock, etc all had the same issue, just with different weaknesses. "Most specs" was probably an exaggeration on my part though.

Even though Legion hasn't completely fixed the issue either, the balance is better by miles. I don't think there's a single spec (outside tank specs) that is completely unplayable in rated PvP.

[Aflakk47]

Let's just ignore the fact that Demon hunters can cleave down any comp in 10sec, while having all the defensive CDs of a rogue as well as the mobility of a Monk/Mage, with 100% leech for pretty much the entire time they're in combat

Let's just ignore the fact that certain specs are totally shit out of luck in PvP thanks to normalized stats being completely terrible for class' play-styles as well as sub specs

Let's just ignore the fact that blizzard completely fucked over every stealth-class by allowing DH's to be able to see them immediately out of the gate

|That's just off the top of my head, and yes, I have a huge disdain for Demon hunters in PvP at the moment. Spectral sight needs to be disabled for the first 10-15 sec or at least nerfed to a 10-20yrd radius around them, not unlimited range (which is the entire arena). Damage isn't the biggest issue but a couple numbers need a little tweaking to bring them in line

Normalized stats also needs a rework because a flat 4-5k of each is completely worthless to a lot of specs and is what truely ruined player identity in PvP. You used to be able to actually gear towards a beneficial stat, and it was your choice. If you felt like haste wasn't helping you survive longer or win more engagements, you could go for more vers/mastery/crit and find a healthy balance between the stats, not some prescribed 1 size fits all diet that will never show actual balance

[Cyanu]

seriously lol with this DH are OP nonsense, do you guys even play the class? DH is actually getting buffed in ptr due to low representation in high ranked arenas, it's a totally one trick pony, he will simlpy open meta and go full mongo at you, if you escape/cc/survive him he's stuck with a bad toon for the rest of the match

i play Mage,DK,lock,priest,shaman and DH and i assure you that frost DK,frost Mage and any shaman spec is simply superior to DH in 3v3, in fact i find killing stuff alot easier with my DK

Legion's balance is decent save some issues that are actively being corrected, compared to the total BS balance we had before it's a huge improvement, especially in 3v3s they did some pretty good job, the only thing i dislike is that some classes counter others a bit too hard but it's probably either that or homogenisation, so...

[Tyrannica]

seems you never played a rogue in legion, he started out to be pretty op in all 3 specs in the beta, even late beta. was still very strong in the prepatch and is now considered dead in all 3 specs due to insane template nerfs.

Just stop whatever you are currently doing and READ the pvp templates of the rogue, and how this class was nerfed to the ground in the last 3-4 months. We are talking about a legion of nerfs and some had nerfs were as high as 80%(soothing darkness for example) 20k ticks from 100k ticks, no dmg, cc prun hard on assassin, no preperation(2x vanish), hp removed ----------> dancing naked.

how do you dare to say this is more balanced than previous xpacks? previous xpack never nerfed a class to the ground like this, in those times we only had to deal with 1-2 bad specs in a class not a class completetly gutted?

Devs and pvp team had ample time to balance classes, and a failure like what happened with the rogue class should have never happened. They com pletely failed to balance a single thing. OP --------> UP is not the kind of balance i am looking forward, too. Or changing the meta by will for no reasion, other than boredom.

Besides, its not fun either. Its boring as fuck to have only a template stat and no customization how to gear your toon.

The paritcipation in anything pvp is the lowest in the history of wow, even in unrated bgs, i saw in a warsong last time 5 frost dks and no rogues....and it does not take much brain cells to understand why.

I fail to see how S5 was more unbalanced than this, actually. The only difference is in S5 the dks were unholy dks and not frost dks. lol.

[Lightbull]

how do you dare to say this is more balanced than previous xpacks? previous xpack never nerfed a class to the ground like this, in those times we only had to deal with 1-2 bad specs in a class not a class completetly gutted?

I said this in a previous post, Combat Rogue during Cata among other classes were completely unviable in PvP. Wrath and below also had a lot of unviable classes that were left unviable for months. The imbalance was there. Don't even get me started on Vanilla.

Like I said, PvP isn't the best right now, but it's still early in the expansion and it's already better than other xpacs.

seems you never played a rogue in legion, he started out to be pretty op in all 3 specs in the beta, even late beta. was still very strong in the prepatch and is now considered dead in all 3 specs due to insane template nerfs.

Just stop whatever you are currently doing and READ the pvp templates of the rogue, and how this class was nerfed to the ground in the last 3-4 months. We are talking about a legion of nerfs and some had nerfs were as high as 80%(soothing darkness for example) 20k ticks from 100k ticks, no dmg, cc prun hard on assassin, no preperation(2x vanish), hp removed ----------> dancing naked.

Devs and pvp team had ample time to balance classes, and a failure like what happened with the rogue class should have never happened. They com pletely failed to balance a single thing. OP --------> UP is not the kind of balance i am looking forward, too. Or changing the meta by will for no reasion, other than boredom.

My Rogue friend isn't happy with the current state of Rogue either, but with the frequent balance changes, Rogues will get buffed soon. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't think that with how Blizzard is handling balance this xpac. Every single change so far (unless there's 1 or 2 I missed) has been to tone down overpowered specs and bring underpowered specs up.

I keep hearing this trend about how Blizzard had "time" to balance classes. If they really had the "time" to balance classes they would have done it years ago. But it never happened.

And no, Rogues are not unplayable. Look at the 3v3 ladders and you will see plenty of Rogues in the top 100. The only class not in the top 100 is Demon Hunter, which is being buffed in 7.1.5.

Besides, its not fun either. Its boring as fuck to have only a template stat and no customization how to gear your toon.

Subjective. Also not related to class balance.

The paritcipation in anything pvp is the lowest in the history of wow, even in unrated bgs, i saw in a warsong last time 5 frost dks and no rogues....and it does not take much brain cells to understand why.

You shouldn't judge PvP participation on one BG. I'd like to see the source of your claims.

I fail to see how S5 was more unbalanced than this, actually. The only difference is in S5 the dks were unholy dks and not frost dks. lol.

I have nothing to say to this. S5 is widely known as the most broken PvP season ever. These minor issues of overpowered and underpowered we have now are nothing compared to S5.

[Deleted]

seriously lol with this DH are OP nonsense, do you guys even play the class? DH is actually getting buffed in ptr due to low representation in high ranked arenas, it's a totally one trick pony, he will simlpy open meta and go full mongo at you, if you escape/cc/survive him he's stuck with a bad toon for the rest of the match

i play Mage,DK,lock,priest,shaman and DH and i assure you that frost DK,frost Mage and any shaman spec is simply superior to DH in 3v3, in fact i find killing stuff alot easier with my DK

Legion's balance is decent save some issues that are actively being corrected, compared to the total BS balance we had before it's a huge improvement, especially in 3v3s they did some pretty good job, the only thing i dislike is that some classes counter others a bit too hard but it's probably either that or homogenisation, so...

let's just ignore that you are a 1500 rated player that has no clue about pvp balance...wait let's not ignore that actually, you shouldnt talk when you dont even know jack shit ur saying, dh's 100% leech? this is pvp not pve we are talking about.
As for the op, people always find ways to complain...pvp is alright and people whine too much.

[Teri]

They really should add pvp template stats in the active world pvp World quest areas, pvp talents are already active there so I imagine the code that detects "pvp area" is already in the game in some form.

Might as well add templates to duels too.

Maybe it will get complicated when you have to fight pve mobs like the warden towers/darkbrul/bareback brawl/murloc freedom so on those npc "regular" stats should still apply.

Could add a tab on the character sheet that displays your "pvp template" stats.

[Krusza]

Wut?

Let's just ignore the fact that triple BM Hunter existed in early MoP, and Arms was able to 1 shot.

Let's just ignore the fact that season 5 DKs were a thing, as well as Ret for most of Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that some casters were able to nearly 1 shot people back in Wrath.

Let's just ignore the fact that Vanilla PvP was a thing.

Let's just ignore the fact that some eSports games in Wrath ended in 4 seconds due to the immense burst damage the game had back then.

Let's just ignore the fact that before WoD most specs were completely unviable.

Yeah PvP isn't in the best spot right now but it's much more balanced than it was in the past.

EDIT: Also, the first season of an expansion is always shit. I'm saving my judgment for PvP in the later patches.

It's not balance thats the issue, it's the entire game as a whole that's absolutely disgusting dogshit.

The fact that now all it requires to be a 2300 player is literally:

Play any mongo melee
Run after someone and do a PvE rotation

That's literally it. No exaggeration. Even from people who are at 2700+ CR, I've heard them say there was barely any difference from 2300 to 2700.

There is nothing left in the game. The only way you can enjoy the current state of PvP is if you're shit.

[xZerocidex]

It's not balance thats the issue, it's the entire game as a whole that's absolutely disgusting dogshit.

The fact that now all it requires to be a 2300 player is literally:

Play any mongo melee
Run after someone and do a PvE rotation

That's literally it. No exaggeration. Even from people who are at 2700+ CR, I've heard them say there was barely any difference from 2300 to 2700.

There is nothing left in the game. The only way you can enjoy the current state of PvP is if you're shit.

Pretty much this, and pruning is one of the main reason here because there's no potential outplay anymore. You join arena and PvE your opponent to death, yeah there might be a lil CC here and there time from time but it doesn't help with the fact that PvP is at it dullest in Legion. Blizzard even stated it themselves that if a new player was to join PvP they would be overwhelmed with all the abilities/buttons they would have to push in order to PvP.

Legion PvP is barebones now.

[Mohangz]

The pruning has made the game take less skill in general s7-s8 wotlk had its problems but the difference between players from 2200-2400-2700 to rank 1 was highly noticeable, as a returning player from wotlk playing legion i literally have no idea how monks work or what class buffs and procs to look for still sitting at 2100-2250 3v3 as ww/mage/pally just sheeping people juking hitting my damage buttons

[Tyrannica]

And no, Rogues are not unplayable. Look at the 3v3 ladders and you will see plenty of Rogues in the top 100. The only class not in the top 100 is Demon Hunter, which is being buffed in 7.1.5.

What? you mean those few that were rate sitting when assassin was still viable? Along with a PvE rotation to max dps in arena? That wasn't a good pvp design nor was it balanced. Rogue this expansion is shit by design due to cc pruning, and later in the expansion, shit to pvp templates nerfs so rogues are not able to burst anymore. Since prepatch they are either too op or too weak, but the design is always crap for pvp, they turned all specs into dragonslayer specs. No outplays anymore or strong synergy in rmp and similar comps. This is not just a case of class balance, but a perfect example what the legion design in pvp is all about.

This expansion is only about tunnel pve dps and no outplays. And it shows.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...lass_filter=12

2,6k+ if you call rank11 in class represantion viable or a class designed primary for pvp i call that BS, whenever i am playing any other classes with a low artifact i am enjoy free kills when seeing a rogue he can't even run away probery due to preperation pruning and outside of arenas there is the pruned BoS. As solution blizz nerfs their hp in all 3 specs./golfclap

Also read it correctly: 23 rogues, but 65-70 frost dks in high rated 3s.(maybe the 5 dks are unholy or maybe they just switched for reasions, unholy does shit dmg atm)

I play both these clases and many more for almost 10 years.....i can tell this is not balanced in any way for form and the design went away from anything considered pvp play for a once smart class.



Look at a video how balanced and how much pvp you got on high rating when assassin was considered strong prior to 7.1. patch.

A R1 rogue talks about how to outdps the other team and had dps meter running in the background. Same person showed excellent sub streams in wod, outsmarting various top players. in arena and duels and it looked like an art. This here looks like the worst shit i have ever seen in wow pvp.
How can you defend this disgusting legion "gameplay"?

A cc class with precision turned into a mongo cleave melee?

Good design......legion is top.


Not!

And i do not think that dmg caused here could be fixed anytime soon, it needs a miracle, because its the legion design, that went wrong. And when devs say we bring back group concealment and not preperation you see how they are not in touch with the problems at all. Do you expect a good pvp game designed by Everquest Dragonslayers? Because you shouldn't.

And what is Holinka the great savior of all pvp doing?

He made the pvp templates that are responsible for the imbalances right now in instanced pvp? Better remove this shit and roll back pvp gear, do not fix what wasn't broken, its a base rule for life.

[JackHunter42]

And what is Holinka the great savior of all pvp doing?

He made the pvp templates that are responsible for the imbalances right now in instanced pvp? Better remove this shit and roll back pvp gear, do not fix what wasn't broken, its a base rule for life.

I hope the will admit pvp templates were and ugly idea sooner or later.
I really do...

[Lightbull]

It's not balance thats the issue, it's the entire game as a whole that's absolutely disgusting dogshit.

The fact that now all it requires to be a 2300 player is literally:

Play any mongo melee
Run after someone and do a PvE rotation

That's literally it. No exaggeration. Even from people who are at 2700+ CR, I've heard them say there was barely any difference from 2300 to 2700.

There is nothing left in the game. The only way you can enjoy the current state of PvP is if you're shit.

Disagree entirely. This game is still skill based, and there's still room for outplaying the enemy. My friend is a prime example of that.

My friend is not that good. His maximum rating was 1800 in the past, when the game "took skill". With your logic, he should be above 2000 rating now because he's playing a mongo class (Feral Druid).

Nope, he's 1600. Living breathing proof that there are distinct differences between good players and shit players.

Pruning did a number to World PvP, and 1v1. Which I agree should change. But 3v3 is still alive and well. And Legion is only improving as the expansion progresses.

- - - Updated - - -

What? you mean those few that were rate sitting when assassin was still viable? Along with a PvE rotation to max dps in arena? That wasn't a good pvp design nor was it balanced. Rogue this expansion is shit by design due to cc pruning, and later in the expansion, shit to pvp templates nerfs so rogues are not able to burst anymore. Since prepatch they are either too op or too weak, but the design is always crap for pvp, they turned all specs into dragonslayer specs. No outplays anymore or strong synergy in rmp and similar comps. This is not just a case of class balance, but a perfect example what the legion design in pvp is all about.

This expansion is only about tunnel pve dps and no outplays. And it shows.

See above.

2,6k+ if you call rank11 in class represantion viable or a class designed primary for pvp i call that BS, whenever i am playing any other classes with a low artifact i am enjoy free kills when seeing a rogue he can't even run away probery due to preperation pruning and outside of arenas there is the pruned BoS. As solution blizz nerfs their hp in all 3 specs./golfclap

Good! Rogues should not be able to run away forever. I don't want to go back to the days where games lasted forever because each team was just hiding/peeling and resetting CDs each time the opponent went for a kill. Rogues should have a weakness, and now they do.

Look at a video how balanced and how much pvp you got on high rating when assassin was considered strong prior to 7.1. patch.

All I see in that video is a salty Rogue trying to tell us that 2v2 is unbalanced by training a low mobility class that was being countered by RDruid HoTs. /noshit

In 3v3, Rogues can be peeled. They can be countered. They can no longer spam CC on the enemy team and leave them helpless while they run around spamming Eviscerate on the kill target. And that apparently takes more skill? I call that having too much utility.

I'm by no means saying that Rogue should stay weak. It's clear Rogue needs some number/mechanical fixes if they need to be viable again. But for god sake, they do not need an overloaded kit with 5 different CCs. That's just making the problem worse.