Drape of shame

[Lagavulin]

What are resto shamans thoughts on this cloak? Worth using over a cloak from Emerald Nightmare that is 15 ilvls higher and has crit and mastery instead of versatility?

[Nythiz]

What are resto shamans thoughts on this cloak? Worth using over a cloak from Emerald Nightmare that is 15 ilvls higher and has crit and mastery instead of versatility?

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Mate of mine got this cloak and asked if I wanted it. I ignorantly passed on it at the time; but I think it's actually a really good cloak.

10% more healing done on critical heals is quite nice if you realize that our heals are going to be critting a lot. Especially for 5 man content, where the large majority of your heals are Tidal Wave driven Healing Surges you're looking at a 5-8% healing done increase from the bonus alone.
To get the same amount of extra healing done through raw stats will require quite a few item levels I would say.

[Deleted]

.
Mate of mine got this cloak and asked if I wanted it. I ignorantly passed on it at the time; but I think it's actually a really good cloak.

10% more healing done on critical heals is quite nice if you realize that our heals are going to be critting a lot. Especially for 5 man content, where the large majority of your heals are Tidal Wave driven Healing Surges you're looking at a 5-8% healing done increase from the bonus alone.
To get the same amount of extra healing done through raw stats will require quite a few item levels I would say.

its a 5% increase to crits, it's on par with an 880 crit/mast cloak

[JonBeMerkin]

its a 5% increase to crits, it's on par with an 880 crit/mast cloak

Great because I have an 880 one and i don't want to drop it for a 855 one or w/e the base ilvl of the cloak is.

[mittacc]

Great because I have an 880 one and i don't want to drop it for a 855 one or w/e the base ilvl of the cloak is.

Don't listen to him. He says mastery > intellect point for point.

[Deleted]

Don't listen to him. He says mastery > intellect point for point.

This is also true, if this guy wants to provide proofs to the contrary I'd like to see them.

[ItsTiddles]

This is also true, if this guy wants to provide proofs to the contrary I'd like to see them.

I've seen plenty of stat weight calculators with convincing details over the last few months and not a single one has considered mastery to be higher than intellect unless your average raid hp is sub-35% (which is basically never), but I don't think I've seen any proof for your argument.

[Deleted]

I've seen plenty of stat weight calculators with convincing details over the last few months and not a single one has considered mastery to be higher than intellect unless your average raid hp is sub-35% (which is basically never), but I don't think I've seen any proof for your argument.

I'll pm you in a few minutes, if your raid was constantly at 35% or below Mastery would outweigh int 2:1 or more

[mittacc]

I'll pm you in a few minutes, if your raid was constantly at 35% or below Mastery would outweigh int 2:1 or more

How about you post them here instead?

[dadev]

I'll pm you in a few minutes, if your raid was constantly at 35% or below Mastery would outweigh int 2:1 or more

Realistically you'd need to have over 60k int for it to happen. With low mastery, like 5k, you can do that in 50k. Not realistic.
With about as much int as you can have now, roughly 43k, you'd need less than 1k mastery to have 2:1 weight. But at that point, your total healing modifier would be quite low (compared to what it can be).

Denote ratings: i=int, c=crit, m=mastery, z=% of hp, v=versatility, h=haste.
Your healing modifier (assuming no overhealing) can be written as: Mod = i*F(c,v,h)*f(m,z)
With f(m,z)=1+(24/100 + 3*m/350/100)*(1-z)
Mastery weight is:
d(i)/d(m) = (d(Mod)/d(m)) * (d(i)/d(Mod)) = D(Mod,m)/D(Mod,i) = i*F(c,v,h)*D(f(m,z),m) / (F(c,v,h)*f(m,z))
= i/f * d(f)/d(m)
Plug in some values with not high mastery, int=43k, m=6k, z=0.35 and you get a 1.6 weight for mastery. Better than int, about 3:2, but not 2:1.

But this is so for quite high item levels and not entirely realistic parameters. If you have 35k int or something, hp% is about 50%, and mastery is roughly 9k then mastery and int are the same point for point. While if you're going with 5k mastery then it's 1.12, but then again, your overall healing is not as good as it could be.
Some analysis I did (not entirely perfect, and resembles healing patterns as I see them) showed that secondaries are balancing out as follows:
When you have 22k total secondaries (I think it's the most you can get now) then you should divide them like this, c=8500, m=8900, h=4600, v=0.
For instance, with these stats and 40k int, at 53% hp secondaries are about 1.1 of int.

[Deleted]

Realistically you'd need to have over 60k int for it to happen. With low mastery, like 5k, you can do that in 50k. Not realistic.
With about as much int as you can have now, roughly 43k, you'd need less than 1k mastery to have 2:1 weight. But at that point, your total healing modifier would be quite low (compared to what it can be).

Denote ratings: i=int, c=crit, m=mastery, z=% of hp, v=versatility, h=haste.
Your healing modifier (assuming no overhealing) can be written as: Mod = i*F(c,v,h)*f(m,z)
With f(m,z)=1+(24/100 + 3*m/350/100)*(1-z)
Mastery weight is:
d(i)/d(m) = (d(Mod)/d(m)) * (d(i)/d(Mod)) = D(Mod,m)/D(Mod,i) = i*F(c,v,h)*D(f(m,z),m) / (F(c,v,h)*f(m,z))
= i/f * d(f)/d(m)
Plug in some values with not high mastery, int=43k, m=6k, z=0.35 and you get a 1.6 weight for mastery. Better than int, about 3:2, but not 2:1.

But this is so for quite high item levels and not entirely realistic parameters. If you have 35k int or something, hp% is about 50%, and mastery is roughly 9k then mastery and int are the same point for point. While if you're going with 5k mastery then it's 1.12, but then again, your overall healing is not as good as it could be.
Some analysis I did (not entirely perfect, and resembles healing patterns as I see them) showed that secondaries are balancing out as follows:
When you have 22k total secondaries (I think it's the most you can get now) then you should divide them like this, c=8500, m=8900, h=4600, v=0.
For instance, with these stats and 40k int, at 53% hp secondaries are about 1.1 of int.

This is, as usual with most mmoc posters, entirely off base and wrong. I'll be happy to post it shortly.

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How about you post them here instead?

It's not ready for plebian use.

[dadev]

This is, as usual with most mmoc posters, entirely off base and wrong. I'll be happy to post it shortly.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not ready for plebian use.

Is this another case of feelcraft?

[Deleted]

Realistically you'd need to have over 60k int for it to happen. With low mastery, like 5k, you can do that in 50k. Not realistic.
With about as much int as you can have now, roughly 43k, you'd need less than 1k mastery to have 2:1 weight. But at that point, your total healing modifier would be quite low (compared to what it can be).

Denote ratings: i=int, c=crit, m=mastery, z=% of hp, v=versatility, h=haste.
Your healing modifier (assuming no overhealing) can be written as: Mod = i*F(c,v,h)*f(m,z)
With f(m,z)=1+(24/100 + 3*m/350/100)*(1-z)
Mastery weight is:
d(i)/d(m) = (d(Mod)/d(m)) * (d(i)/d(Mod)) = D(Mod,m)/D(Mod,i) = i*F(c,v,h)*D(f(m,z),m) / (F(c,v,h)*f(m,z))
= i/f * d(f)/d(m)
Plug in some values with not high mastery, int=43k, m=6k, z=0.35 and you get a 1.6 weight for mastery. Better than int, about 3:2, but not 2:1.

But this is so for quite high item levels and not entirely realistic parameters. If you have 35k int or something, hp% is about 50%, and mastery is roughly 9k then mastery and int are the same point for point. While if you're going with 5k mastery then it's 1.12, but then again, your overall healing is not as good as it could be.
Some analysis I did (not entirely perfect, and resembles healing patterns as I see them) showed that secondaries are balancing out as follows:
When you have 22k total secondaries (I think it's the most you can get now) then you should divide them like this, c=8500, m=8900, h=4600, v=0.
For instance, with these stats and 40k int, at 53% hp secondaries are about 1.1 of int.

Shouldn't it be something like Mod = A*i*F(c,v,h)*f(m,z)
where A is a spell dependent coefficient and as most spells scale better than 1:1 with int, including this will skew results more towards Int.

[dadev]

Shouldn't it be something like Mod = A*i*F(c,v,h)*f(m,z)
where A is a spell dependent coefficient and as most spells scale better than 1:1 with int, including this will skew results more towards Int.

You can of course put A there, but it'll disappear when you divide, because it persists when deriving by i and m.

[Deleted]

Is this another case of feelcraft?

It's a case of developing a tool that looks at logs, then extracts and attributes the amount of healing each point of each stat gave you. Your method is nonsense because it assumes absolutely no overhealing and completely lacks any consideration for damage patterns or the presence of other healers.

[dadev]

It's a case of developing a tool that looks at logs, then extracts and attributes the amount of healing each point of each stat gave you. Your method is nonsense because it assumes absolutely no overhealing and completely lacks any consideration for damage patterns or the presence of other healers.

Where's the tool?

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...

You still didn't explain how you get 2:1 mastery to int with current gear levels and normal levels of mastery. Feelcraft?

[Deleted]

Where's the tool?

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You still didn't explain how you get 2:1 mastery to int with current gear levels and normal levels of mastery. Feelcraft?

if your raid was constantly at 35% or below Mastery would outweigh int 2:1 or more

https://alison.com/learn/english

here's a good resource

[dadev]

https://alison.com/learn/english

here's a good resource

So do it with 35% hp.