What Item Level is ok to switch to sub

[shinji2009]

Hey guys so I been getting pretty bored with sin and after searching the forums I am hearing people say sub is okay with a higher ilevel. I had seen some posts say ilvl 860 is ok and some say ilvl 880 with legendary boots, so has anybody tested with and without boots at different ilvls? My ilvl is at 866 and I only have the crappy neck legendary (my rng is awful) do you think I could get away playing sub and still pulling close to or the same numbers as sin after regemming and enchanting?

[lobocito]

It isn't really about pure ilvl. Sub almost doesn't work without the boots. Even without my sin legendary I lose nearly 30% of my dps switching to sub, and thats at 884.

[Richie311]

As of right now the gear lvl is mid way through nighthold, maybe a bit earlier with the buffs to ToV ilvl. The only way you can switch right now is if you get the leggo sub boots.

[shinji2009]

It isn't really about pure ilvl. Sub almost doesn't work without the boots. Even without my sin legendary I lose nearly 30% of my dps switching to sub, and thats at 884.

That's why I am asking here because I keep hearing mixed reviews saying you need the boots, and sub is ok even without the boots. I hate that in order for the spec to work you need 1 legendary item. It had taken me a FOREVER to get my one legendary and its just the garbage neck one.

[elfporn]

That's why I am asking here because I keep hearing mixed reviews saying you need the boots, and sub is ok even without the boots. I hate that in order for the spec to work you need 1 legendary item. It had taken me a FOREVER to get my one legendary and its just the garbage neck one.

Im one of the top dps without boots. 886ilvl. I have ring and belt. Our top has boots and ring.

[shinji2009]

Im one of the top dps without boots. 886ilvl. I have ring and belt. Our top has boots and ring.

Yea I only have the neck that gives you a shield. My ilvl is 866 its good to know you don't need the boots. I miss raiding as sub (haven't raid since cata).

[elfporn]

Yea I only have the neck that gives you a shield. My ilvl is 866 its good to know you don't need the boots. I miss raiding as sub (haven't raid since cata).

The boots are absolutely amazing, but not required to rank, or keep up with other dps.

If you're in a world class guild on the other hand, competition is much steeper and the boots are needed for the edge they give.

It's just as important to get high agility trinkets and balanced stats. I use an EoC with the chest, coupled with a newly acquired urn (i had an 880 hunger of the pack). I finally have brought my crit down to 39% ooc, and ~44% in combat, which is where i want to be. My next goal is to figure out a way to increase mastery with little to no loss of crit.

Tldr: balance your stats. Get good trinkets. Gear up over 880, and in the meantime keep loot spec set to sub. Play any spec while gearing up.

[Hellbourn]

Why set loot spec to sub for a 1/8 (if you have no legendaries) chance to get the boots ? Why not keep sin loot spec - get one of the 2 good (ring shared with sub) sin legendaries? Why not reward the already well performing spec, rather than leaving loot spec to something that for the most part only works with a 1 chance item ? I like sub , I hate that it is that way thou. I think there will be more change if blizz wants us to play Sub early - if not - well there are 2 more tiers after NH that we can probably have enough gear to be sub without the boots or have the boots after securing our current raiding spec with much deserved legendaries!

[warstry]

As of right now the gear lvl is mid way through nighthold, maybe a bit earlier with the buffs to ToV ilvl. The only way you can switch right now is if you get the leggo sub boots.

This. Sub will not pass sin until a decent amount of nighthold gear has been obtained unless you get the boots. At 883 ilvl with 0 dps legendaries, sin greatly outperforms sub for me. Sub feels to clunky without the guaranteed 4 SS in every dance.

[mauserr]

That's why I am asking here because I keep hearing mixed reviews saying you need the boots, and sub is ok even without the boots. I hate that in order for the spec to work you need 1 legendary item. It had taken me a FOREVER to get my one legendary and its just the garbage neck one.

Welcome to Legion, where specs are made viable only because of a particular BiS legendary item and where specs are balanced around having a legendary item being balanced around another legendary item rather than a set bonus. (dh ring & dh shoulders, top kek). Oh, what joy!

[Clinkzthebonerogue]

I'm 870ilvl and I keep up in dps like top 3 (only have the bracers legendary). If I had the boots then I would definitely be number one. So you don't need the boots to be competitive at all.

The main thing is that if your gear/relics aren't optimized then your dps will surely be on the low-end. But that's for a lot of classes/specs.

[mauserr]

I'm 870ilvl and I keep up in dps like top 3 (only have the bracers legendary). If I had the boots then I would definitely be number one. So you don't need the boots to be competitive at all.

The main thing is that if your gear/relics aren't optimized then your dps will surely be on the low-end. But that's for a lot of classes/specs.

You can be top3 in your raid even in 860 if the rest of your group is shit. You should measure competetive by percentiles on warcraftlogs, not your own raid group & guild rogue players.

[T18Z]

You can be top3 in your raid even in 860 if the rest of your group is shit. You should measure competetive by percentiles on warcraftlogs, not your own raid group & guild rogue players.

Pretty much this.

Without the boots you're not going to compete with top players on logs unless there is some serious cheesing going on.

[Clinkzthebonerogue]

You can be top3 in your raid even in 860 if the rest of your group is shit. You should measure competetive by percentiles on warcraftlogs, not your own raid group & guild rogue players.

my bad 70-80% on my ilvl