1. #3141
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Exactly. Of the eight, only six are ever heard from after the fact, and of them, only Mel is reported to have any misgivings about what they did as a moral question in and of itself. .
    Mel ... that was her name. I totally blanked.

    Even a few minor changes to the story, would have made it better, imo.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  2. #3142
    I completely missed the transgender kid... am I alone in that?

    I just thought he was chosen to be a wife regardless of his sex because religious sects like that tend to be fucked up in that sort of ways...

  3. #3143
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I completely missed the transgender kid... am I alone in that?

    I just thought he was chosen to be a wife regardless of his sex because religious sects like that tend to be fucked up in that sort of ways...
    I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2020-08-02 at 10:20 PM.

  4. #3144
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.
    Constantly? Unless it happened during the chaos on the island and I missed it, it was one encounter with four mobs, and honestly if you were concentrating on killing them it would have been easy to not even notice unless you catch the optional conversation after.

  5. #3145
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Constantly? Unless it happened during the chaos on the island and I missed it, it was one encounter with four mobs, and honestly if you were concentrating on killing them it would have been easy to not even notice unless you catch the optional conversation after.
    Yes constantly, any time he was in combat with one of his own and they noticed him. I'm sorry you have hearing issues. The game has some great accessibility options for issues like this, you should of used them.

    It's about a subtle as a golf club to the head, sorry if that comparison still gets you mad.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2020-08-02 at 10:39 PM.

  6. #3146
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.
    Yeah, shaved his head to be a warrior because he didn't want to be a "wife". He didn't like what he was forced to become so he rebelled. Lev is a neutral name and everyone refered to him as he and he looked like a boy. Can't recall deadnaming in combat, but that is just my memory... And frankly combat "talk" to me is just information of what the enemy is doing and reacting to my actions. If this is the only place they actually point out his gender dysphoria it doesn't surprise me I missed it.

    No one really mentioned it or reacted to him apparently being transgendered. Even his sister just says that he didn't want to become a wife and instead a warrior which has nothing to do with transgenderism on it's own. As I said, I just thought it was a fucked up religious cult which they are so it doesn't surprise me they take small kids, boys and girls and have them as "wifes" for older leaders.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-08-02 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #3147
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yes constantly, any time he was in combat with one of his own and they noticed him. I'm sorry you have hearing issues. The game has some great accessibility options for issues like this, you should of used them.

    It's about a subtle as a golf club to the head, sorry if that comparison still gets you mad.
    It clearly has accessibility options for people who have their head wallpapered in used feminine hygiene products, so they really did think of everything.

    Lev's story and persecution and the kinda buried-lede child abuse underlinging it, the Scars in some ways struck me as actually slightly less degenerate than the Wolves. They had the constructive stretch goal of ridding the world of the infected. Sure, they're willing to kill innocents to achieve it, but when did that ever stop TLOU 2 from whitewashing a faction in the series' mythology? Their default greeting and parting dialogue about guidance and perfection was considerably less creepy than the Wolves "death be swift" Klingon larping. They even got cool ponchos and coded whistling (I wonder what job you got in that community if you just couldn't whistle? Did you have to scavenge a whistle or were you just farming?).

    Gosh, it's almost as if the only community or faction in the entire lore that weren't basically giant assholes at a founding principles level was Jackson.

  8. #3148
    This thread is just Twitter users critiquing the sequel to a game they've never even heard of lmao

  9. #3149
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.
    you sound really angry because someone did not notice it...i recommend talking to a therapist about it.

  10. #3150
    I enjoyed the game. Wouldn’t give a 10/10, but maybe a 7 or an 8. Became too repetitive after a while, but overall I thought it was really fun and worth the money I paid.

  11. #3151


    This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games. But while I don't agree with everything this is still a very well put together review that thankfully stays away from all the drama surrounding the game.

  12. #3152
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games.
    It is the case for every last one of the GOOD story-based games. But you are right, there are very few such games.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  13. #3153
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post


    This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games. But while I don't agree with everything this is still a very well put together review that thankfully stays away from all the drama surrounding the game.
    Difference is most choice-free games don't present themselves as trying to challenge the moral assumptions of the player and face the player with moral consequences. Naughty Dog made TLOU 2 and it's like they wanted the choice-and-consequences gravitas that makes Quantic Dreams, Dontnod, or Telltale games work, without actually giving the player any agency in canonical events in the story. What's worse, they try to fudge by acting like gameplay is made of choices... but then, other than 'guilt over dogs', sticking with the assertion that gameplay isn't canon.

    TLOU 2's only real "trick" - the thing around which they based the structure of the story, the underlying moral assumptions of the plot, how characters are introduced and depicted - is to make you think on some level you were a bad person for having sided with Joel in TLOU and Ellie in first half of TLOU 2. That trick doesn't work when nothing happens in either game that was actually up to the player. Like, if TLOU ended with a binary choice, players would have to own that. I think Naughty Dog would be shocked to see that saving Ellie would be 80%+ take rate by players.

  14. #3154
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Difference is most choice-free games don't present themselves as trying to challenge the moral assumptions of the player and face the player with moral consequences. Naughty Dog made TLOU 2 and it's like they wanted the choice-and-consequences gravitas that makes Quantic Dreams, Dontnod, or Telltale games work, without actually giving the player any agency in canonical events in the story. What's worse, they try to fudge by acting like gameplay is made of choices... but then, other than 'guilt over dogs', sticking with the assertion that gameplay isn't canon.

    TLOU 2's only real "trick" - the thing around which they based the structure of the story, the underlying moral assumptions of the plot, how characters are introduced and depicted - is to make you think on some level you were a bad person for having sided with Joel in TLOU and Ellie in first half of TLOU 2. That trick doesn't work when nothing happens in either game that was actually up to the player. Like, if TLOU ended with a binary choice, players would have to own that. I think Naughty Dog would be shocked to see that saving Ellie would be 80%+ take rate by players.
    Or... maybe the game was just trying to tell a story where the player had more interactions with it instead of just taking away control from the player and just played a cutscene instead. All the story does is try to get you thinking about what's actually going on in the story instead of just what you the player are doing. It's no different than if you watched a movie or read a book that tried to tackle the same idea.

    It's not the game's fault if some people are incapable of turning on their brain and instead get insulted at the idea of being forced to think for once in their life.

  15. #3155
    *off

    Nobody's having an issue with the story because they were thinking too much.

  16. #3156
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    *off

    Nobody's having an issue with the story because they were thinking too much.
    The fact that the first response some people seem to have is "that the game tried to make me feel bad and it failed so it sucks" shows that they didn't think about it at all because guess what, the game isn't about you the player it's about the characters and how you view them and their actions because the choices you make are an extension of the character's choices it is not meant to be seen as the other way around.

  17. #3157
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    The fact that the first response some people seem to have is "that the game tried to make me feel bad and it failed so it sucks" shows that they didn't think about it at all because guess what, the game isn't about you the player it's about the characters and how you view them and their actions because the choices you make are an extension of the character's choices it is not meant to be seen as the other way around.
    So it's basically a bad game. There's this clear dissonance between the game and the story. There's no point in actually playing it - just watch the cutscenes on YouTube.
    But even then the story sucks. So it's also a bad movie.

    I'd rather replay Telltale's The Walking Dead, the series in which my choices matter to the story, from start to finish and tell a better story.

    As compared to this "The last of empty drawers" simulator in-between cutscenes directed by a teen.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  18. #3158
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    So it's basically a bad game. There's this clear dissonance between the game and the story. There's no point in actually playing it - just watch the cutscenes on YouTube.
    But even then the story sucks. So it's also a bad movie.

    I'd rather replay Telltale's The Walking Dead, the series in which my choices matter to the story, from start to finish and tell a better story.

    As compared to this "The last of empty drawers" simulator in-between cutscenes directed by a teen.
    Right because this is the only game in existence to have a story where the player's actions have no real effect on what happens. Clearly the only way for a game to be good is to have a narrative that is controlled solely by the player's actions all that gameplay in between is completely irrelevant to the experience.

  19. #3159
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Right because this is the only game in existence to have a story where the player's actions have no real effect on what happens. Clearly the only way for a game to be good is to have a narrative that is controlled solely by the player's actions all that gameplay in between is completely irrelevant to the experience.
    Nice strawman.

    A good story game must have one of these (preferably both):
    1. Gameplay and Story are in sync
    2. Player agency in the story

    Last of us 2 is none of those. It's just a movie with regular interruptions for an interactive ad for some mildly related game in the same universe.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  20. #3160
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.
    I know you have me blocked because you can't handle the fact on how wrong your arguments actually are.

    First off, Warriors of the Seraphites are LITERALLY not all men. We meet Yara ... a woman ... who is a warrior. Lev literally rejects cutting off her arm because she is a warrior. Women can be warriors. Lev wanted to be a warrior like his sister, he rejected his assigned role of a wife.

    The male warriors shave their heads, but the female warriors do not. Lev's entire banishment happens because Lev rejects the role of being a wife. Him shaving his head is not a relevant as you are making it out to me because again, warriors do not have to be male. If Lev was allowed to be a warrior, he may have never shaved his head and had been banned, but because Lev rejected his Prophet given role of being a wife ... he was made an apostate.

    Lev being trans is just the reason given for the rejection of the role, but the reason he was kicked out was because he rejected the role given. If Lev was Lily and Lily rejected the role of a wife, they would still have likely been kicked out. Yara was kicked out because she supported Lev's decision while their mother wasn't because their mother rejected Lev's decision.

    Also, the dead naming is very easy to miss at it is one encountered on the bridges they built with the prompt easy to miss if you are moving fast. And the chaos on the island is also easily missed. If you play the game where you constantly heard them say it, you were talking a very passive role in combat in order to hear it repetitively enough.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

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