1. #3221
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sure show me the insect rat king based off current known fungal infections. It's possible so link the scientific basis for it huh? Should be so easy right?

    Imagine being worried about the size of muscles in a world that literally has a fucking rat king, brock lesnar sized bloaters throwing acid grenades at you, stalkers that are as nimble and quick as an AC protag etc.

    Suspension of disbelief for all this crazy ass non sense going on, but you're worried about the size of muscles from a woman who trains in the Seahawks training facility and has a community self sufficient on food supply is an issue. You really can't make this shit up.
    The Rat King wasn't just cause by the fungal infection. I suggest you look up what can happen to rats that live too close to each other.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  2. #3222
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    No, I can fully believe she could have a muscular physique ... I cannot believe she would be more jacked than pretty much everyone else in her faction.
    Hell, the only people more jacked than her in the game are some of the Seraphites that I can recall.
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.

  3. #3223
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    I feel like this game was intended to have choices in it, but they were removed during development because Naughty Dog knew it would make writing a sequel harder.
    Quite a fucking conspiracy theory when ND has never had choices in their games, and had to argue their vision for the first one when people where mad about not having a choice at the end of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The Rat King wasn't just cause by the fungal infection. I suggest you look up what can happen to rats that live too close to each other.
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.

  4. #3224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    Because it matters what parts are used to build up to that point. There is no comments of Abby working out, eating a lot, etc ... she is jacked because she is jacked. The workout equipment is there, but we don't see her using it and we only see her eat a burrito. Then she is somehow in Combat enough, despite being gone for months on her Joel quest to still be treated as Number 1 Scar killer.

    The parts that are used to build up the infection are not as weak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.
    Except it is clearly not one orgasm at all given that one part of it breaks off during the fight. Did you play the game?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #3225
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.
    https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Rat_King

    It appears to have formed by being sealed in a room so full of spores that as the fungal growths bloomed and spread, the Infected were merged into each other.
    The Rat King is based on a real life phenomenon, where numerous rats are found constrained together because their tails intertwine or bound together

  6. #3226
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.

  7. #3227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.
    In the Rat King fight, part of it BREAKS AWAY. They are not "behaving as a single organism." And given the infected naturally swarm noninfected, it is clear that working together is a thing they do. Again I ask you, did you really play the game?

    Take your own advice, cut your bullshit and not bother to reply outside to apologize for you lying.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #3228
    TLOU2 spoilers(and Battlestar Galactica):

    Did Lev play a role in Ellie deciding to let Abby live? If you don't know, tell me what you think the reason was, please. I personally think it was a heavy influence on her decision, because IRL it would be a heavy influence on that decision, for almost anyone. Yes, Ellie knew of Lev before the ending, but also the condition of Lev and Abby played a huge role in her decisions. If they were eating and laughing and fart/belching playing cards when she showed up, I think she makes a different decision. Circumstances mattered here.

    What if they had found the fireflies before Ellie showed up, with Ellie's history, what would she have done then? Would she have attacked the fireflies again, in their upstart delicate state, for revenge(ending the organization once and for all)?

    In the new battlestar galactica, the Cylons occupy the colony on New Caprica, and after they(the humans) escape, a jury takes it upon themselves(with secret permission) to hunt down and kill the humans who worked with the cylons. Mr. Gaeta had been sneaking info to the resistance in a dead drop(a dog bowl to be precise), but the jury didn't know it(and Gaeta refused to beg for his life and tell the whole story because he expected death anyway) and sentenced him to death anyway. Luckily they found out that he was the reason they got rescued in the first place. Are the act's that Abby did to save Lev not her dog bowl dead drop? She didn't save everyone, but she gave up herself to save just one, like Joel, and like Joel, she was redeemed.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2020-08-11 at 10:15 PM.

  9. #3229
    I miss when the argument about someone being too muscular in a video game was about a guy who punched a giant boulder. At least then, it was amusing.

  10. #3230
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.
    It's cute how dismissive you are like your opinion is somehow more valid than a scientist, or just your average random internet poster. You also seem to love strawmen. It's really what your posting history tends to show.

    You seem to compare the plausibility of an unknown, and a known as one and the same when they're not.

    The limits and abilities of the CBI is an unknown. The game sets up the plausibility, and then it's up them to stay consistent with its portrayal. The Rat King was formed in a small room. It's not like it formed in that room, sat there for 25 years, Abby opened the door, and then they had a throw down. It formed there, was in the room for an undetermined period of time, and then has been in the hospital area since. It's not impossible to imagine several fungi of the same species merging. Overall though, no, I'm not really a fan of the Rat King. I think it starts to stretch CBI a little thin.

    The physique of Abby is not a mystery. It's been clearly established who it was based on (Colleen Fotsch), and it is clearly established what it takes to create and maintain that physique (2-3 hours of training per day, 5 days a week, 2 rest days, 3000+ balanced calories per day with supplements). The issue with Abby's physique is they don't establish why she trains so hard and long, how she manages to maintain a consistent training / eating routine while still doing all the other patrol / training requirements of other soldiers, and why she is seemingly the only person who does. For me, and others, this seems out of place. Not a "gamebreakingly this is why the game is bad' way, but just a wrinkle. For you, it's perfectly plausible. You're entitled to think that way. Immersion is a personal subjective opinion.
    Last edited by Krastyn; 2020-08-11 at 10:04 PM.

  11. #3231
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sure show me the insect rat king based off current known fungal infections. It's possible so link the scientific basis for it huh? Should be so easy right?

    Imagine being worried about the size of muscles in a world that literally has a fucking rat king, brock lesnar sized bloaters throwing acid grenades at you, stalkers that are as nimble and quick as an AC protag etc.

    Suspension of disbelief for all this crazy ass non sense going on, but you're worried about the size of muscles from a woman who trains in the Seahawks training facility and has a community self sufficient on food supply is an issue. You really can't make this shit up.
    So what you are saying is that part 2 is a far less realistic and believable universe than the original? Seems like you both agree that TLOU2 has many more suspension of disbelief moments than the original but are disagreeing with which parts are the least believable as I don't remember the rat king being in the original.

  12. #3232
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So what you are saying is that part 2 is a far less realistic and believable universe than the original?.
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.

  13. #3233
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.
    Having increased fungal growth isn't realistically possible? There are living real life blind humans who have developed their own type of echolocation.


  14. #3234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.
    They are only beyond realistically possible because you claim to be so. You have merely declared "Nope, that is not remotely possible." I don't care about your personal incredulity. We know the woman that was the body model of Abby, we know what her diet and exercise routine is. It doesn't follow that Abby would be able to do that routine and be on patrol/in combat enough to be labeled the WLF Number 1 Scar Killer. This not even getting into the fact how someone her age knew how to even approach a body building routine ... and no her Dad being a doctor is not evidence she would know because her father's expertise was surgery and in general while he may have known the requirements, I don't believe for a second he would tell his daughter how to do it.

    So Abby would have to have not only the desire to get as jacked as she was, but have the ability to find a routine several decades after body building would have likely been a thing people even considered. Convinced the WLF to let her have that food and supplements needed to be that jacked. As well as being out on patrol/in combat enough to both NOT hurt the required workout regiment but also be able to be classified as Number 1 Scars Killer.

    But, yes, too much fungal growth for you despite people get fungal growths on their skin in the real world is obviously less realistic /eyeroll
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #3235
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    I don't get your point about suspension of disbelief. It's completely inapplicable.

    It is a zombie game - so we naturally are fine with suspending our disbelief about zombies, DUH. But then it's also a realistic game about real humans in a zombie apocalypse. We have already suspended our disbelief about the whole zombie apocalypse thingy and expect the rest to keep us that way. So unrealistically (BY THE LORE) jacked-up females - are failing us in that regard.

    It doesn't matter if they had agriculture, it doesn't matter if they had gym equipment, it doesn't matter if they had steroids. It is insanely stupid to waste food and time on something NO ONE NEEDS.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  16. #3236
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I don't get your point about suspension of disbelief. It's completely inapplicable.

    It is a zombie game - so we naturally are fine with suspending our disbelief about zombies, DUH. But then it's also a realistic game about real humans in a zombie apocalypse. We have already suspended our disbelief about the whole zombie apocalypse thingy and expect the rest to keep us that way. So unrealistically (BY THE LORE) jacked-up females - are failing us in that regard.

    It doesn't matter if they had agriculture, it doesn't matter if they had gym equipment, it doesn't matter if they had steroids. It is insanely stupid to waste food and time on something NO ONE NEEDS.
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.

  17. #3237
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.
    To be in shape is not the same as being jacked-up. In fact, being jacked-up is detrimental in the field of duty - because if there's a shortage of food in a long op - the performance of a jacked-up (beyond natural weight) soldier will drop significantly. The jacked-up soldier has very little fat, they are mostly lean. Those muscles need energy and you have to CARRY them around as well, they are heavy.

    I understand Hollywood movies educated you otherwise but come on.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  18. #3238
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.
    In shape is different than body builder shape.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #3239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The same logic is also applied to Joel, since he is fairly muscular, especially for a man in his 40's. Both are unrealistic, in relation to the environment that the games are set in. Joel could be strong without being muscular, but he'd be more in line with Abby's appearance. For a game that pretends to be realistic, it sure fails at realism in it's character designs.
    Pretty much also applies to everything - tv, movies, video games - done in a zombie apocalypse. Hell, almost every everything done in ANY flavor of apocalypse. Rarely do the characters ever physically change. They never lose/gain weight. They don't get more or less tone or buff. Hell their teeth don't even rot! The most that usually happens is their hair/beards grow out (sometimes).

    Its fine to have issues with that lack of realism. But to single out TLOU2 for not showing that realism isn't really fair. If someone finds it a 'major problem' then I'd expect that person to rarely like anything else in the apocalypse genre, because they all have that problem. *shrugs*
    Last edited by Koriani; 2020-08-12 at 05:53 PM.
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  20. #3240
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    It's not weird at all, we have way more knowledge and personal experiences with how humans work. So we tend to be more critical to human conditions and human behaviours in situations because we can empathise and gauge how we would react and behave and how it would affect us.

    However, the rest, when it comes to zombies or anything that doesn't really exist in OUR world, the suspension of belief is not about that things could work in our world but more about IF our world had these fictional creatures and with the rules that the writer have set them up with, how would it work.
    If zombies exist how would they react based on our observations on similar stuff as well as the mythos explaining the behaviours. Suspension is all about the IF since they don't exist, the rest we can't just suspense the belief, we require explanation for their behaviours otherwise it just becomes a shit story. Even the idea of Zombies are from real-life examples. Hell, even TLoU based their zombies on fungi who does the same thing to bugs and small critters. So, hell even the idea of fungi doing what it does not require much suspension either, only the applications on humans.

    The entire reason why fantasy or sci-fi or anything that tells a story of something that's not possible is based on the notion, we know this can't happen or is the case, but what IF. Then the same critique applies as with her physique. If a story is about to change some human characteristics it absolutely have to gives the audience an explanation of why it is instead of just "lol we got zombies so anything goes". Things still have to make sense in the manner of rules we know beforehand and told during.

    The fact that clickers adapt echolocation is based on our own knowledge of how evolution works and how humans themselves learn echolocation if they are blind or at least have the capability to do so. So we aren't really suspending belief for anything when it comes to clickers except that they came to be. Which is just an example.

    Anyway, I find the entire discussion of her physique to be ridiculous, from both sides, it's a minor thing and it's being blown up by people who want to find another flaw in a character they dislike as well as defenders who try to make critique look more ridiculous to easily shut it down.

    Just bugs me when people act like no rules apply just because it's a story in a fictional setting. In fact the rules are paramount and the most important part to make a believable world.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-08-12 at 06:18 PM.

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