1. #3281
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Objectively false statement.

    This is pure opinion with zero basis in the game. And there is evidence Joel isn't the most skilled or most powerful.

    For example:
    Marlene managed to take the same journey Joel and Ellie did and we don't know exactly how many other fireflies she had with her.
    Bill basically lives by himself out in the middle of an area having an entire town rigged up to protect him.
    Tommy is basically like Joel when it comes to skill and strength.
    There are several enemies that are physically larger than joel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCycerwf2Ug - "He ain't even hurt." That man clearly has a larger build than Joel does.

    You even admit that Joel gets taken down by a punch, implying there ARE people physically stronger than Joel ... your own argument is self defeating.

    Also, Joel survive a car accident while in the driver seat with a seat belt. Abby literally survives in a car accident while in the bed of a truck without a seat belt. If you find Joel surviving a car accident unbelievable and not grounded, than that Abby applies too.

    The problem isn't that your points need refuting. The problem is you are NOT applying the same standard to Joel as you do to Abby. You will bend over backwards to make Abby seem more grounded, when she isn't and outright lie about a Joel.
    She managed to take that journey with help... Tommy fortified himself down... Joel complete his journey with no help basically.

    No, I said Joel gets chocked and than takes a guy out with one punch before falling and getting injured. I don't Abby story is just more grounded she gets constant help unlike Joel who is a one man army. He legit gets into a car crash and than proceed to beat up three people afterwards. Joel beats up that bigger guy btw easily.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2020-08-28 at 02:36 AM.
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  2. #3282
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    She managed to take that journey with help... Tommy fortified himself down... Joel complete his journey with no help basically.

    No, I said Joel gets chocked and than takes a guy out with one punch before falling and getting injured. I don't Abby story is just more grounded she gets constant help unlike Joel who is a one man army. He legit gets into a car crash and than proceed to beat up three people afterwards. Joel beats up that bigger guy btw easily.
    Abby literally beats an enemy that was bigger and stronger than anything Joel faced in the first game ... single handed. The Rat King alone is worse than anything Joel face. Joel had no help? Bill helped Joel. Ellie helped Joel. etc ... Joel had tons of help. This is the problem with your argument, you are outright lying about Joel to make it.

    Abby is literally in a car crash and then gets into a firefight with more than three people shortly afterward. How you can't see that you are wrong here is beyond me. You lie about Joel and give Abby every benefit of the doubt. You can't do that.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #3283
    I just went through it to the end, the game seemed to be not finished normally ...

  4. #3284
    This thread is so dissapointing. One of the best games of all time when being objective and you're discussing one man army's and how much muscle tone a female character got. This thread is patient zero on why you should not listen to feedback from the Internet and make your vision. This game was intense. The narrative was always there to supplement the gameplay. And the way it unfolds and ratchets up the tension was hugely enjoyable. One of the best games of the year easily
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  5. #3285
    This thread is so disappointing. One of the worst games of all time when being objective and yet we have people praising it endlessly and without rest. This thread is patient zero on why you should not listen to feedback from the Internet and make your vision. This game was intensely boring. The narrative was always out of sync with the gameplay. And the way it unfolds and tries to ratchet up the tension was falling flat. One of the worst games of the year, no doubt.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  6. #3286
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    I wonder how long people will keep bumping the thread out of pure salt I’d have thought people would have gotten over it by now but I guess I didn’t factor in how invest people are in the first game or how salty they would be about this one as they are both meh to me.

  7. #3287
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    This thread is so dissapointing. One of the best games of all time when being objective and you're discussing one man army's and how much muscle tone a female character got. This thread is patient zero on why you should not listen to feedback from the Internet and make your vision. This game was intense. The narrative was always there to supplement the gameplay. And the way it unfolds and ratchets up the tension was hugely enjoyable. One of the best games of the year easily
    I am currently arguing with a person that did not play either game and "watched" playthrough. The only side "listening to the internet" is the side praising the game.

    There are a lot of fundamental story flaws.

    Ellie's story was fine, it was building up to a climax. Had a turning point where you realized that the WLF was fighting another enemy and thus maybe their behavior is because they are in a constant state of fighting with another group. And when you get to what should be the climax of the game, you get 10 hours as Abby that is basically flat story telling. Broken up into 3 parts: Find Owen, Fetch quest, and Go save Lev. It feels like side quests, rather than meaningful to the story at all.

    Even the last part with Abby where we see her get captured was completely not needed because all it did was confirm the Fireflies were rebuilding.

    You could cut out ALL the chapters with Abby and the final Ellie section, and this game would have a better more cohesive story. It also doesn't necessarily end happily as you could have had Abby live, leaving it open ended with Ellie suffering from PTSD and guilt. And then of course, you have the infection take even a further backseat in the story telling and setting where it pretty much doesn't matter.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-29 at 11:20 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am currently arguing with a person that did not play either game and "watched" playthrough. The only side "listening to the internet" is the side praising the game.

    There are a lot of fundamental story flaws.

    Ellie's story was fine, it was building up to a climax. Had a turning point where you realized that the WLF was fighting another enemy and thus maybe their behavior is because they are in a constant state of fighting with another group. And when you get to what should be the climax of the game, you get 10 hours as Abby that is basically flat story telling. Broken up into 3 parts: Find Owen, Fetch quest, and Go save Lev. It feels like side quests, rather than meaningful to the story at all.

    Even the last part with Abby where we see her get captured was completely not needed because all it did was confirm the Fireflies were rebuilding.

    You could cut out ALL the chapters with Abby and the final Ellie section, and this game would have a better more cohesive story. It also doesn't necessarily end happily as you could have had Abby live, leaving it open ended with Ellie suffering from PTSD and guilt. And then of course, you have the infection take even a further backseat in the story telling and setting where it pretty much doesn't matter.
    The story was great actually. Going to the hospital through a giant apartment building that was gutted from the inside with infected was one of the most intense segments in any game I've played and couldn't put the controller down. Watching this game is not the same as wearing headphones on a higher difficulty at All. There was much more gameplay than expected of course some of the story elements serve as going from A to B like damn near every video game. You make abby a dude and 99% of complaints go away
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  9. #3289
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The story was great actually. Going to the hospital through a giant apartment building that was gutted from the inside with infected was one of the most intense segments in any game I've played and couldn't put the controller down. Watching this game is not the same as wearing headphones on a higher difficulty at All. There was much more gameplay than expected of course some of the story elements serve as going from A to B like damn near every video game. You make abby a dude and 99% of complaints go away
    How is the story "great" because the action is intense? That doesn't follow to me. That's all gameplay, not story. The gameplay is good, it is pretty much the same as the first game with no huge shake ups. Most combat areas are decent enough to allow multiple ways of handling encounters, even the tighter areas have options.

    Tell me, what did the going to the hospital section add to the overall story of the game? In Abby's section, what is her goal ... what is she building to. Why should we be invested in her sections. Abby's motivation go from Soldier following orders to go AWOL to find Owen to gotta save the kids she just met to track down Ellie to Find the Fireflies. Ellie's story is find Abby, it is simple yes, but they are able to show how her actions are tracking down where Abby is.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #3290
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    How is the story "great" because the action is intense? That doesn't follow to me. That's all gameplay, not story. The gameplay is good, it is pretty much the same as the first game with no huge shake ups. Most combat areas are decent enough to allow multiple ways of handling encounters, even the tighter areas have options.

    Tell me, what did the going to the hospital section add to the overall story of the game? In Abby's section, what is her goal ... what is she building to. Why should we be invested in her sections. Abby's motivation go from Soldier following orders to go AWOL to find Owen to gotta save the kids she just met to track down Ellie to Find the Fireflies. Ellie's story is find Abby, it is simple yes, but they are able to show how her actions are tracking down where Abby is.
    You're focusing on the trees and missing the forest. It's all about context. How they make you care for a character that took a golf club to Joel. Annnd they made it a beefed up laydee. What a writers challenge! And they succeeded. You realise that ellie is wrong to go on this massive revenge mission and it brings her nothing but pain and misery. Abbys story high lighted the horrors of the end of the first game and expanded on those themes. Would you say abby and ellie were happy while hunting each other?

    And narrative does serve to assist the game play. Why do you think you start off clearing out outposts with 2 or 3 people/undead to rushing head first into entire camps full of hostiles as you try catch up to someone they care about. Also the sniper segment being Tommy? Genius

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also through abby we learn more about the wolves and scars so they are not just one dimensional mindless bad guys like the zombies. You're like oh shit yeah that area I just blitzed through were people and I just killed a pregnant top surgeon. It's good story telling
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  11. #3291
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    You're focusing on the trees and missing the forest. It's all about context. How they make you care for a character that took a golf club to Joel. Annnd they made it a beefed up laydee. What a writers challenge! And they succeeded. You realise that ellie is wrong to go on this massive revenge mission and it brings her nothing but pain and misery. Abbys story high lighted the horrors of the end of the first game and expanded on those themes. Would you say abby and ellie were happy while hunting each other?
    Abby didn't even know Ellie followed her until they confronted each other. She knew Tommy was there and was hunting him after she found Owen and Mel dead. And of course Ellie wasn't happy hunting Abby ... she was hunting her because she killed Joel.

    No, I am looking at the forest. That's why I said you can cut it out and still have the same quality story. Abby's entire section is poorly paced, unneeded and adds nothing but more world building that could have been done with fleshing out Ellie's side more. Ellie's story is harmed because Abby's story exists as playable.

    ---

    Also through abby we learn more about the wolves and scars so they are not just one dimensional mindless bad guys like the zombies. You're like oh shit yeah that area I just blitzed through were people and I just killed a pregnant top surgeon. It's good story telling
    I would argue that we learn the WLF is all assholes and the Scars are religious zealots. Honestly, Abby's story made me feel those factions were one dimensional.

    And I got they were people and Ellie killed a pregnant surgeon all with just Ellie's story ... I didn't need additional crap to know that.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-29 at 09:30 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  12. #3292
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Abby didn't even know Ellie followed her until they confronted each other. She knew Tommy was there and was hunting him after she found Owen and Mel dead. And of course Ellie wasn't happy hunting Abby ... she was hunting her because she killed Joel.

    No, I am looking at the forest. That's why I said you can cut it out and still have the same quality story. Abby's entire section is poorly paced, unneeded and adds nothing but more world building that could have been done with fleshing out Ellie's side more. Ellie's story is harmed because Abby's story exists as playable.

    ---



    I would argue that we learn the WLF is all assholes and the Scars are religious zealots. Honestly, Abby's story made me feel those factions were one dimensional.

    And I got they were people and Ellie killed a pregnant surgeon all with just Ellie's story ... I didn't need additional crap to know that.
    "additional crap" sure you don't have an agenda there at all. If you missed all the sub text on alpha bros and people just joining for protection and creating a military/family unit or the religious group of the scars that in doctrine thier kids into it then that's on you
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  13. #3293
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    "additional crap" sure you don't have an agenda there at all. If you missed all the sub text on alpha bros and people just joining for protection and creating a military/family unit or the religious group of the scars that in doctrine thier kids into it then that's on you
    There was no sub text in Abby's story. Seriously, none. They were very open about what they were showing and why they were showing it.

    That could have worked sub textually in improving Ellie's side of the story, which suffered because they decided to devote 10 hours to Abby and add nothing of substance.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #3294
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    There was no sub text in Abby's story. Seriously, none. They were very open about what they were showing and why they were showing it.

    That could have worked sub textually in improving Ellie's side of the story, which suffered because they decided to devote 10 hours to Abby and add nothing of substance.
    The game only covers 3 days how much more guitar playing with Ellie and Joel did you need? They could have just done the first game again I guess but they took creative risks instead.

    Are you reading the notes laying around in the world? Maybe you are just watching the cut scenes? I dunno how the story can be so lost on you it was pretty cut and dry really
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  15. #3295
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The game only covers 3 days how much more guitar playing with Ellie and Joel did you need? They could have just done the first game again I guess but they took creative risks instead.

    Are you reading the notes laying around in the world? Maybe you are just watching the cut scenes? I dunno how the story can be so lost on you it was pretty cut and dry really
    Debating with that guy is a lost cause he has been trying to convince everyone the story is bad for months now and it's quite obvious the entire thing boils down to "buff female killed my male protag OUTRAGE". He believes his own farts so much he thinks Abby's physique is less realistic then a fucking clicker, which says it all.

  16. #3296
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The game only covers 3 days how much more guitar playing with Ellie and Joel did you need? They could have just done the first game again I guess but they took creative risks instead.

    Are you reading the notes laying around in the world? Maybe you are just watching the cut scenes? I dunno how the story can be so lost on you it was pretty cut and dry really
    It isn't lost on me. You are going "How can you not love this story" when you aren't arguing any point that is directly the story of the game ... you are arguing for gameplay and world building aspects of the game. The world building could have been put in Ellie's section. Help develop Dina and Jesse's characters more.

    You think there is sub text when they isn't any. You think Abby shows that WLF and Serephites aren't one dimensional despite the fact they do NOTHING but show that the WLF are assholes and aggressive. And do nothing but show the Seraphites as religious zealots ... Yara and Lev are apostates.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Debating with that guy is a lost cause he has been trying to convince everyone the story is bad for months now and it's quite obvious the entire thing boils down to "buff female killed my male protag OUTRAGE". He believes his own farts so much he thinks Abby's physique is less realistic then a fucking clicker, which says it all.
    The world building supports clickers. The world building doesn't support Abby's physique. Hell, even changing some story line aspects could have made her bulking up make sense. Take Isaac, rather than Abby being his "Number 1 scar killer" if he changed it to "It is about time we had you using that muscle of your more." Or even, you have wasted enough time and resources, it is about time you start paying us back in full. It shows that she was focused more on bulking up/using resources, etc, I would have less of a problem.

    We see nothing in Abby's character that support her having the build she has other than she has it. And no, the fact they have a gym isn't evidence for it, we never see her in the gym. She makes no references to the gym. They literally could have walked by cakes, and that entire thing is the same. The fact they grow their own food isn't evidence either. Imagine rather than finding her passed out reading a book, Manny found her passed out in the gym instead. Minor things they COULD have done to help build Abby physique into the world ... they chose not to do it.

    And I am literally okay with her killing Joel. I don't have a problem with Joel dying, I have a problem with how the death was handled. You are lying and proving you haven't listen to anything I have said.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-29 at 11:46 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #3297
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Debating with that guy is a lost cause he has been trying to convince everyone the story is bad for months now and it's quite obvious the entire thing boils down to "buff female killed my male protag OUTRAGE". He believes his own farts so much he thinks Abby's physique is less realistic then a fucking clicker, which says it all.
    Starting to realise that when he talked about killing the surgeon as other crap.

    Also there are like at least two references that I can think of that refer to how she got big. They eat meat and are well fed and she's gym obsessed and they even comment on her skipping training and would she be OK with that. IE she never misses a gym session. Next they will be saying wolves don't reward meat. Actually pay attention to the game

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It isn't lost on me. You are going "How can you not love this story" when you aren't arguing any point that is directly the story of the game ... you are arguing for gameplay and world building aspects of the game. The world building could have been put in Ellie's section. Help develop Dina and Jesse's characters more.

    You think there is sub text when they isn't any. You think Abby shows that WLF and Serephites aren't one dimensional despite the fact they do NOTHING but show that the WLF are assholes and aggressive. And do nothing but show the Seraphites as religious zealots ... Yara and Lev are apostates.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The world building supports clickers. The world building doesn't support Abby's physique. Hell, even changing some story line aspects could have made her bulking up make sense. Take Isaac, rather than Abby being his "Number 1 scar killer" if he changed it to "It is about time we had you using that muscle of your more." Or even, you have wasted enough time and resources, it is about time you start paying us back in full. It shows that she was focused more on bulking up/using resources, etc, I would have less of a problem.

    We see nothing in Abby's character that support her having the build she has other than she has it. And no, the fact they have a gym isn't evidence for it, we never see her in the gym. She makes no references to the gym. They literally could have walked by cakes, and that entire thing is the same. The fact they grow their own food isn't evidence either. Imagine rather than finding her passed out reading a book, Manny found her passed out in the gym instead. Minor things they COULD have done to help build Abby physique into the world ... they chose not to do it.

    And I am literally okay with her killing Joel. I don't have a problem with Joel dying, I have a problem with how the death was handled. You are lying and proving you haven't listen to anything I have said.
    It would be pretty boring if they made us lift dumb bells and do squats. I'd rather do the much more interesting shit like in her story like being close with the wolves then getting close with the scar runaways than learn more about her weight/cardio gym break down. And they do make references to it anyway so you're the one lying
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  18. #3298
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Starting to realise that when he talked about killing the surgeon as other crap.

    Also there are like at least two references that I can think of that refer to how she got big. They eat meat and are well fed and she's gym obsessed and they even comment on her skipping training and would she be OK with that. IE she never misses a gym session. Next they will be saying wolves don't reward meat. Actually pay attention to the game

    - - - Updated - - -



    It would be pretty boring if they made us lift dumb bells and do squats. I'd rather do the much more interesting shit like in her story like being close with the wolves then getting close with the scar runaways than learn more about her weight/cardio gym break down. And they do make references to it anyway so you're the one lying
    I mean people are saying "There's no proof she ever went to the Gym." when there's her own filled in Gym form showing one of her sessions.

  19. #3299
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I mean people are saying "There's no proof she ever went to the Gym." when there's her own filled in Gym form showing one of her sessions.
    Yeah it's pretty lame they get hung up on such trivial stuff. I guess you're not allowed to be buff in the apocalypse with all that free time. You just sit around by the camp fire singing show tunes
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  20. #3300
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah it's pretty lame they get hung up on such trivial stuff. I guess you're not allowed to be buff in the apocalypse with all that free time. You just sit around by the camp fire singing show tunes
    Hey man she didn't hit the gym in the whole 3 days the game takes place in. By my math she should of lost about 75% of her mass, skipping 3 days of gym while shit is hitting the fan makes it impossible to be buff!

    You know if they model swapped her to starving Abby from end of game these people would of never complained. I think they are intimidated by a woman with more mass then them, but they could fix that with a trip to the gym... oh but they would probably see women there that look like Abby and claim it was fake or they're on roids and get kicked out.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2020-08-30 at 04:06 AM.

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