1. #3101
    I miss when the argument about someone being too muscular in a video game was about a guy who punched a giant boulder. At least then, it was amusing.

  2. #3102
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.
    It's cute how dismissive you are like your opinion is somehow more valid than a scientist, or just your average random internet poster. You also seem to love strawmen. It's really what your posting history tends to show.

    You seem to compare the plausibility of an unknown, and a known as one and the same when they're not.

    The limits and abilities of the CBI is an unknown. The game sets up the plausibility, and then it's up them to stay consistent with its portrayal. The Rat King was formed in a small room. It's not like it formed in that room, sat there for 25 years, Abby opened the door, and then they had a throw down. It formed there, was in the room for an undetermined period of time, and then has been in the hospital area since. It's not impossible to imagine several fungi of the same species merging. Overall though, no, I'm not really a fan of the Rat King. I think it starts to stretch CBI a little thin.

    The physique of Abby is not a mystery. It's been clearly established who it was based on (Colleen Fotsch), and it is clearly established what it takes to create and maintain that physique (2-3 hours of training per day, 5 days a week, 2 rest days, 3000+ balanced calories per day with supplements). The issue with Abby's physique is they don't establish why she trains so hard and long, how she manages to maintain a consistent training / eating routine while still doing all the other patrol / training requirements of other soldiers, and why she is seemingly the only person who does. For me, and others, this seems out of place. Not a "gamebreakingly this is why the game is bad' way, but just a wrinkle. For you, it's perfectly plausible. You're entitled to think that way. Immersion is a personal subjective opinion.
    Last edited by Krastyn; 2020-08-11 at 10:04 PM.

  3. #3103
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sure show me the insect rat king based off current known fungal infections. It's possible so link the scientific basis for it huh? Should be so easy right?

    Imagine being worried about the size of muscles in a world that literally has a fucking rat king, brock lesnar sized bloaters throwing acid grenades at you, stalkers that are as nimble and quick as an AC protag etc.

    Suspension of disbelief for all this crazy ass non sense going on, but you're worried about the size of muscles from a woman who trains in the Seahawks training facility and has a community self sufficient on food supply is an issue. You really can't make this shit up.
    So what you are saying is that part 2 is a far less realistic and believable universe than the original? Seems like you both agree that TLOU2 has many more suspension of disbelief moments than the original but are disagreeing with which parts are the least believable as I don't remember the rat king being in the original.

  4. #3104
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    So what you are saying is that part 2 is a far less realistic and believable universe than the original?.
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.

  5. #3105
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.
    Having increased fungal growth isn't realistically possible? There are living real life blind humans who have developed their own type of echolocation.


  6. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The original still had clickers and bloaters... which are still beyond anything realistically possible. So no.
    They are only beyond realistically possible because you claim to be so. You have merely declared "Nope, that is not remotely possible." I don't care about your personal incredulity. We know the woman that was the body model of Abby, we know what her diet and exercise routine is. It doesn't follow that Abby would be able to do that routine and be on patrol/in combat enough to be labeled the WLF Number 1 Scar Killer. This not even getting into the fact how someone her age knew how to even approach a body building routine ... and no her Dad being a doctor is not evidence she would know because her father's expertise was surgery and in general while he may have known the requirements, I don't believe for a second he would tell his daughter how to do it.

    So Abby would have to have not only the desire to get as jacked as she was, but have the ability to find a routine several decades after body building would have likely been a thing people even considered. Convinced the WLF to let her have that food and supplements needed to be that jacked. As well as being out on patrol/in combat enough to both NOT hurt the required workout regiment but also be able to be classified as Number 1 Scars Killer.

    But, yes, too much fungal growth for you despite people get fungal growths on their skin in the real world is obviously less realistic /eyeroll
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  7. #3107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    I don't get your point about suspension of disbelief. It's completely inapplicable.

    It is a zombie game - so we naturally are fine with suspending our disbelief about zombies, DUH. But then it's also a realistic game about real humans in a zombie apocalypse. We have already suspended our disbelief about the whole zombie apocalypse thingy and expect the rest to keep us that way. So unrealistically (BY THE LORE) jacked-up females - are failing us in that regard.

    It doesn't matter if they had agriculture, it doesn't matter if they had gym equipment, it doesn't matter if they had steroids. It is insanely stupid to waste food and time on something NO ONE NEEDS.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  8. #3108
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I don't get your point about suspension of disbelief. It's completely inapplicable.

    It is a zombie game - so we naturally are fine with suspending our disbelief about zombies, DUH. But then it's also a realistic game about real humans in a zombie apocalypse. We have already suspended our disbelief about the whole zombie apocalypse thingy and expect the rest to keep us that way. So unrealistically (BY THE LORE) jacked-up females - are failing us in that regard.

    It doesn't matter if they had agriculture, it doesn't matter if they had gym equipment, it doesn't matter if they had steroids. It is insanely stupid to waste food and time on something NO ONE NEEDS.
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.

  9. #3109
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.
    To be in shape is not the same as being jacked-up. In fact, being jacked-up is detrimental in the field of duty - because if there's a shortage of food in a long op - the performance of a jacked-up (beyond natural weight) soldier will drop significantly. The jacked-up soldier has very little fat, they are mostly lean. Those muscles need energy and you have to CARRY them around as well, they are heavy.

    I understand Hollywood movies educated you otherwise but come on.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  10. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Their soldiers fighting a war, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some of their clearly abundant resources would go towards keeping their soldiers in shape.
    In shape is different than body builder shape.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #3111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The same logic is also applied to Joel, since he is fairly muscular, especially for a man in his 40's. Both are unrealistic, in relation to the environment that the games are set in. Joel could be strong without being muscular, but he'd be more in line with Abby's appearance. For a game that pretends to be realistic, it sure fails at realism in it's character designs.
    Pretty much also applies to everything - tv, movies, video games - done in a zombie apocalypse. Hell, almost every everything done in ANY flavor of apocalypse. Rarely do the characters ever physically change. They never lose/gain weight. They don't get more or less tone or buff. Hell their teeth don't even rot! The most that usually happens is their hair/beards grow out (sometimes).

    Its fine to have issues with that lack of realism. But to single out TLOU2 for not showing that realism isn't really fair. If someone finds it a 'major problem' then I'd expect that person to rarely like anything else in the apocalypse genre, because they all have that problem. *shrugs*
    Last edited by Koriani; 2020-08-12 at 05:53 PM.
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  12. #3112
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    It's not weird at all, we have way more knowledge and personal experiences with how humans work. So we tend to be more critical to human conditions and human behaviours in situations because we can empathise and gauge how we would react and behave and how it would affect us.

    However, the rest, when it comes to zombies or anything that doesn't really exist in OUR world, the suspension of belief is not about that things could work in our world but more about IF our world had these fictional creatures and with the rules that the writer have set them up with, how would it work.
    If zombies exist how would they react based on our observations on similar stuff as well as the mythos explaining the behaviours. Suspension is all about the IF since they don't exist, the rest we can't just suspense the belief, we require explanation for their behaviours otherwise it just becomes a shit story. Even the idea of Zombies are from real-life examples. Hell, even TLoU based their zombies on fungi who does the same thing to bugs and small critters. So, hell even the idea of fungi doing what it does not require much suspension either, only the applications on humans.

    The entire reason why fantasy or sci-fi or anything that tells a story of something that's not possible is based on the notion, we know this can't happen or is the case, but what IF. Then the same critique applies as with her physique. If a story is about to change some human characteristics it absolutely have to gives the audience an explanation of why it is instead of just "lol we got zombies so anything goes". Things still have to make sense in the manner of rules we know beforehand and told during.

    The fact that clickers adapt echolocation is based on our own knowledge of how evolution works and how humans themselves learn echolocation if they are blind or at least have the capability to do so. So we aren't really suspending belief for anything when it comes to clickers except that they came to be. Which is just an example.

    Anyway, I find the entire discussion of her physique to be ridiculous, from both sides, it's a minor thing and it's being blown up by people who want to find another flaw in a character they dislike as well as defenders who try to make critique look more ridiculous to easily shut it down.

    Just bugs me when people act like no rules apply just because it's a story in a fictional setting. In fact the rules are paramount and the most important part to make a believable world.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-08-12 at 06:18 PM.
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  13. #3113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Pretty much also applies to everything - tv, movies, video games - done in a zombie apocalypse. Hell, almost every everything done in ANY flavor of apocalypse. Rarely do the characters ever physically change. They never lose/gain weight. They don't get more or less tone or buff. Hell their teeth don't even rot! The most that usually happens is their hair/beards grow out (sometimes).

    Its fine to have issues with that lack of realism. But to single out TLOU2 for not showing that realism isn't really fair. If someone finds it a 'major problem' then I'd expect that person to rarely like anything else in the apocalypse genre, because they all have that problem. *shrugs*
    There's plenty of other forms of media where I dislike the aesthetics of the characters. Frankly, things like comic books are capable of suspending disbelief because the characters can range from lithe like Spiderman, to muscular and bulky like Batman or Superman. And plenty of female comic book characters are depicted as muscular and strong, then you get Rooster Teeth and that god damn purple fat Wonder Woman, completely disgracing the aesthetic of the character's history, basically making her a caricature in the process. Especially with established characters, I have a problem with them being changed to fit some sort of fabricated quota or agenda. I figure if people want to make new characters, go nuts, but if you are trying to tell a story based on a hypothetical scenario where there's some aspects that are supposed to be realistic, don't be offended when people call you out for being unrealistic.

  14. #3114
    https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/st...58841098452999



    So much for the no one is buying it anymore meme.

  15. #3115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Joel on the edge of what could be possible.
    Abby is so far over the edge of what could be possible that it goes into the unbelievable territory.

    Seriously, the fact she had a compound she lived it with food and a gym doesn't mean she would get a female bodybuilder physique. It isn't natural for men to have a physique akin to Abby, again I would have a problem if a man in was introduced with a bodybuilder physique.
    Aye, the unbelievable territory like being shanked 5 times but survivng then getting ganged up on by mushroom zombies. Pathetic.

  16. #3116
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Aye, the unbelievable territory like being shanked 5 times but survivng then getting ganged up on by mushroom zombies. Pathetic.
    My complaint isn't about game mechanics.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #3117
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Aye, the unbelievable territory like being shanked 5 times but survivng then getting ganged up on by mushroom zombies. Pathetic.
    Hell forget being shanked, dude got impaled and kid Ellie somehow dragged him, a 220+ lb man to a safe house where he spent god knows how long without any real treatment but some penicillin magically turned him into a killing machine again.

    TLOU1 with Joel was the pinnacle of realism!

  18. #3118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Hell forget being shanked, dude got impaled and kid Ellie somehow dragged him, a 220+ lb man to a safe house where he spent god knows how long without any real treatment but some penicillin magically turned him into a killing machine again.

    TLOU1 with Joel was the pinnacle of realism!
    Counterpoint: Yara.

    Has bones in her lower arm shattered but was able to outrun infected despite her pain, a day later has her arm removed in a aquarium with medical supplies that were magically not looted or destroyed who were in an ambulance since before the infection spread. Not only after the surgery, she is able to assist Abby enough through an area of combat and had some level of combat capability both after her arm was shattered and after it had been removed. And managed after being shot, to accurately shoot and kill Isaac so Abby could escape.

    So choices include that we must accept injuries of that level are common place and people survive them (and there are amazing stories of survival in the real world that make both Yara and Joel look reasonable), must determine whether Yara or Joel was more unrealistic, or simply hate the game for building an unbelievable world.

    Also, you complaint is more against Ellie than Joel because she somehow managed to successfully treat Joel and keep him alive while dragging him to safety. But, you got to make Joel look like the unreasonable because he was the main protagonist of the first game right? You are clearly not going to have an obvious bias because you misrepresent arguments or facts, right?

    But, at this point, because of game mechanics, we can see that Joel is a tough individual that is able to survive some pretty serious crap, so even if you are right, they showed us that Joel was a survivor. ... what game mechanics, lore or anything is shown to us before we meet the muscle bound Abby? No, they merely tell us she is jacked because she is jacked.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-14 at 11:52 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #3119
    Bit of interesting news I ran across this morning:

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...tation-history

  20. #3120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Bit of interesting news I ran across this morning:

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...tation-history
    And sales figures have pretty much tanked since. Sold well at release because people were anticipating the game, but after that, the sales have dropped off significantly. But the whatever, 6 million copies that have been sold since launch is pitiful considering the install base of the PS4, and that a kids game like Animal Crossing has sold nearly three times as many copies.

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