The Last of Us Part II

[Edge-]

And sales figures have pretty much tanked since.

Tanked since...yesterday when the NPD report was out?

The game was gonna be dead at launch because of the spoilers.

Sales fell off hard after the first week and it's not gonna reach any milestones because people finally played it.

Now that it's the third best selling PS game of all time in the US, the sales will stop.

The evolving arguments on how the game is going to "fail" are fascinating.

But the whatever, 6 million copies that have been sold since launch is pitiful considering the install base of the PS4

6 million copies sold for a first party in less than a quarter title is pitiful? I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to be informed of that information.

and that a kids game like Animal Crossing has sold nearly three times as many copies.

"Kids game" played by huge number of adults, and is an outlier in how crazy the number of copies sold has been and is a cultural phenomenon in a way that few games have ever become.

I mean, I kinda gotta commend you for sticking to your "This game is a failure" position despite literally all evidence to the contrary but like...you're still wrong, and I'm not sure why you're so determined to hate the game.

[Fencers]

And sales figures have pretty much tanked since.

Is this sarcasm? I am not sure how to read this. TLOUS was in the top 5 overall game sales for the past 2 months. The game was released in June. It's August.

But the whatever, 6 million copies that have been sold since launch is pitiful

Not sarcasm, but a troll? This is a wild statement. This kinda argument ought to be clipped.

The purpose of proving a link (not checking this thread for every new update natch) was for those interested in how the game's sales have been considering it is still a hotly talked about game.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Hell forget being shanked, dude got impaled and kid Ellie somehow dragged him, a 220+ lb man to a safe house where he spent god knows how long without any real treatment but some penicillin magically turned him into a killing machine again.

TLOU1 with Joel was the pinnacle of realism!

TLOU1 joel was a gary stu.

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Counterpoint: Yara.

Has bones in her lower arm shattered but was able to outrun infected despite her pain, a day later has her arm removed in a aquarium with medical supplies that were magically not looted or destroyed who were in an ambulance since before the infection spread. Not only after the surgery, she is able to assist Abby enough through an area of combat and had some level of combat capability both after her arm was shattered and after it had been removed. And managed after being shot, to accurately shoot and kill Isaac so Abby could escape.

So choices include that we must accept injuries of that level are common place and people survive them (and there are amazing stories of survival in the real world that make both Yara and Joel look reasonable), must determine whether Yara or Joel was more unrealistic, or simply hate the game for building an unbelievable world.

Also, you complaint is more against Ellie than Joel because she somehow managed to successfully treat Joel and keep him alive while dragging him to safety. But, you got to make Joel look like the unreasonable because he was the main protagonist of the first game right? You are clearly not going to have an obvious bias because you misrepresent arguments or facts, right?

But, at this point, because of game mechanics, we can see that Joel is a tough individual that is able to survive some pretty serious crap, so even if you are right, they showed us that Joel was a survivor. ... what game mechanics, lore or anything is shown to us before we meet the muscle bound Abby? No, they merely tell us she is jacked because she is jacked.

Nah its against joel lol he was a gary stu. Which is why killing him off is impossible. They made him just way to good at surviving both he and Ellie are honestly.

[Rennadrel]

Is this sarcasm? I am not sure how to read this. TLOUS was in the top 5 overall game sales for the past 2 months. The game was released in June. It's August.

Not sarcasm, but a troll? This is a wild statement. This kinda argument ought to be clipped.

The purpose of proving a link (not checking this thread for every new update natch) was for those interested in how the game's sales have been considering it is still a hotly talked about game.

The only people who are still talking about the game are the people who think g*mers are offended by Abby. In the end, I find it highly unlikely that TLOU2 surpasses it's predecessor in overall sales lifetime. I don't know anyone who has played it more than once through, and the overall story and tone of the game are so depressing that I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to play it more than once. I'm not sure why people can't understand that this game failed to meet expectations of the fans for a variety of reasons and the only people actively praising it are the usual suspects in game journalism. I think it's more telling that there's so much bias from the journos and ignoring the blatant troll low scores, most consumers have rated the game far more in line with where I see it, which is a 6 or 7 out of 10. There's nothing innovative about the game, either. Everything is just a jack of all trades and master of none of them.

[Darththeo]

TLOU1 joel was a gary stu.

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Nah its against joel lol he was a gary stu. Which is why killing him off is impossible. They made him just way to good at surviving both he and Ellie are honestly.

Your level of sarcasm is not needed. Please actually address posts, it makes the sarcasm less obvious.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Your level of sarcasm is not needed. Please actually address posts, it makes the sarcasm less obvious.

Joel was a gary stu lol for his universe... He was a one man army with a solution to every problem. Killing him off in a believable way is unrealistic because he is basically batman.

[Darththeo]

Joel was a gary stu lol for his universe... He was a one man army with a solution to every problem. Killing him off in a believable way is unrealistic because he is basically batman.

Except he wasn't, by any measure. Hence, your level of sarcasm isn't needed.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Except he wasn't, by any measure. Hence, your level of sarcasm isn't needed.

Not at all he know everything and basically killed an army of solider solo.

[Darththeo]

Not at all he know everything and basically killed an army of solider solo.

If you are going to be a troll, troll better. No one who played the game would even believe this BS is remotely true.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

If you are going to be a troll, troll better. No one who played the game would even believe this BS is remotely true.

I'm sorry joel takes down entire groups of people solo. He kill the fireflies guarding the hospital and manages to carry ellie back to a car. I know the games fiction but joel is that series batman. He is super human lol.

[Darththeo]

I'm sorry joel takes down entire groups of people solo. He kill the fireflies guarding the hospital and manages to carry ellie back to a car. I know the games fiction but joel is that series batman. He is super human lol.

The Fireflies aren't soldiers. They are a militia at best, they aren't highly trained or highly skilled. They are people.

The most militarized group in the series is the WLF ... which was in the sequel.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

The Fireflies aren't soldiers. They are a militia at best, they aren't highly trained or highly skilled. They are people.

The most militarized group in the series is the WLF ... which was in the sequel.

They're as well trained as joel and had the chance to get just as much experience but joel was special-er or w/e. The whole series isn't very well grounded or logical in a lot of areas.

[Stardrift]

They're as well trained as joel and had the chance to get just as much experience but joel was special-er or w/e. The whole series isn't very well grounded or logical in a lot of areas.

It's not trying to be. It's a mushroom zombie video game where you blast heads, living or dead, with shotguns. Just like all other video games, it's for fun.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

It's not trying to be. It's a mushroom zombie video game where you blast heads, living or dead, with shotguns. Just like all other video games, it's for fun.

but people are trying to criticize a lack of realism when it comes to stuff they don't like. The first last of us was an 8/10 game it was just well executed but did nothing new. Your choices don't matter in either and it something I hope they address in 3. This on the rails morality lesson shit is old.

The last of us 2 is almost a masterpiece but poor execution fucked it up. Same with mass effect 3 that spoiler ending where the antagonist aren't really the bad guys is good story telling. The build up and planning to it was just ass.

[Stardrift]

but people are trying to criticize a lack of realism when it comes to stuff they don't like. The first last of us was an 8/10 game it was just well executed but did nothing new. Your choices don't matter in either and it something I hope they address in 3. This on the rails morality lesson shit is old.

The last of us 2 is almost a masterpiece but poor execution fucked it up. Same with mass effect 3 that spoiler ending where the antagonist aren't really the bad guys is good story telling. The build up and planning to it was just ass.

I'll agree with you there. I hope they address it in TLOU3 as well.

[Tech614]

I'll agree with you there. I hope they address it in TLOU3 as well.

They're not going to address it because it's not a problem. Not every game needs to give "player choice" on the story and games doing it for the sake of it cheapens the story overall. The ending of Ghost of Tsushima is atrocious because of a random choice thrown into a game that previously had none. Sucker Punch should of grown some balls and just had Jin finish off his uncle instead of not committing to it with a terrible choice that makes no sense based on everything else.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

They're not going to address it because it's not a problem. Not every game needs to give "player choice" on the story and games doing it for the sake of it cheapens the story overall. The ending of Ghost of Tsushima is atrocious because of a random choice thrown into a game that previously had none. Sucker Punch should of grown some balls and just had Jin finish off his uncle instead of not committing to it with a terrible choice that makes no sense based on everything else.

It does when you want them to learn from the game. Killing is bad but not allowing the player to change along the way hurts that experience. Both games do that and I just want it to change. Like if I kill less people they spend less resources on me and focus on other threats. Let the game difficulty adjust with kill count at the very least. It would make the world feel more real and honestly shouldn't be to hard. Except tlou likes to have unique models for humanoids. That can be workaround with blend shapes though and clothing. You can make clothing fit around the actual part of the mesh with a skin renderer and use blend shapes to change forms at runtime.

[Tech614]

It does when you want them to learn from the game. Killing is bad but not allowing the player to change along the way hurts that experience. Both games do that and I just want it to change. Like if I kill less people they spend less resources on me and focus on other threats. Let the game difficulty adjust with kill count at the very least. It would make the world feel more real and honestly shouldn't be to hard. Except tlou likes to have unique models for humanoids. That can be workaround with blend shapes though and clothing. You can make clothing fit around the actual part of the mesh with a skin renderer and use blend shapes to change forms at runtime.

Failing to differentiate narrative from gameplay is not my thing sorry. The gameplay is there to make it a good game, the narrative is there to be a narrative. No game that ever tried to link the two did it without one or the other suffering in some way. The ludo-narrative dissonance argument was shit in 2013 for Bioshock Infinite and it's still shit today for TLOU2 and for any game in between that tried to go there. The narrative in RDR2 for example is great and also quite grounded in reality, the gameplay on the other hand is quite the opposite with massive shoot outs and a super power in dead eye. Is this a problem? Absolutely not, the gameplay is there to be fun and give you action. For anyone who makes this argument I think you have the wrong hobby.

You're barking up the wrong dev's tree if you ever think ND is going to give you some branching choice narrative. If you want that Obsidia, CDPR, Arkane or Bethesda are your guys... not ND.

[Darththeo]

They're as well trained as joel and had the chance to get just as much experience but joel was special-er or w/e. The whole series isn't very well grounded or logical in a lot of areas.

No evidence for your claim.

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It's not trying to be. It's a mushroom zombie video game where you blast heads, living or dead, with shotguns. Just like all other video games, it's for fun.

The individual is arguing that gameplay = exactly what happens in the story. And that isn't the case. His argument that Joel is a Gary Stu is just a lame attempt at trolling because his only argument is "nah!" Joel doesn't look out of place with the rest of the cast, Joel doesn't do things beyond what we see other characters do. Joel isn't beloved by everyone in the game in comes across. Joel's victories don't come easy. No one is arguing Abby is a Mary Sue so arguing Joel is Gary Stu is just an attempt to troll.

I honestly like Abby as a character concept, but I feel they fucked up the execution and when she is the only one that looks the way she does AND such a physique actually would HARM her chances of surviving rather than help ... it takes me out of the game. No one is arguing that Abby slaughtering dozens of people single handedly is a problem ... that's just gameplay. Replace Abby with someone who looked like The Rock, I would be having the same complaints. It is out of place, I don't have a problem with jacked characters in say a game like gears of war where basically everyone is jacked as hell (even if it doesn't make sense) because that world isn't attempting to ground itself in realism.

Abby could have worked as a character, I am just baffled by the choices they made with how they handled her as a character and how they chose to tell her side of the story ... it just didn't work for me.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

No evidence for your claim.

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The individual is arguing that gameplay = exactly what happens in the story. And that isn't the case. His argument that Joel is a Gary Stu is just a lame attempt at trolling because his only argument is "nah!" Joel doesn't look out of place with the rest of the cast, Joel doesn't do things beyond what we see other characters do. Joel isn't beloved by everyone in the game in comes across. Joel's victories don't come easy. No one is arguing Abby is a Mary Sue so arguing Joel is Gary Stu is just an attempt to troll.

I honestly like Abby as a character concept, but I feel they fucked up the execution and when she is the only one that looks the way she does AND such a physique actually would HARM her chances of surviving rather than help ... it takes me out of the game. No one is arguing that Abby slaughtering dozens of people single handedly is a problem ... that's just gameplay. Replace Abby with someone who looked like The Rock, I would be having the same complaints. It is out of place, I don't have a problem with jacked characters in say a game like gears of war where basically everyone is jacked as hell (even if it doesn't make sense) because that world isn't attempting to ground itself in realism.

Abby could have worked as a character, I am just baffled by the choices they made with how they handled her as a character and how they chose to tell her side of the story ... it just didn't work for me.

It is Joel is 5"9 an not even that muscular but he takes down armies of people while protecting Ellie. There was nobody in that game capable of doing what he did despite surviving just as long...

They did mess up her appearance bigger arm doesn't mean stronger. Your torso and legs generate more power. Abby needed smaller arms and massive thighs. Abby killed nowhere near as many people as Joel... She also ran into to people that could take her 1v1. Joel never ran into any of that... Abby keeps Ellie grounded unlike Joel who was the batman of his game. You know on sight if Abby grabs Ellie she is fucking dead.

Was he ever threatened physically in the first the last of us? He had no equal in that game. Abby ran into that giant of a man and Tommy to keep her in check unlike Joel. She was also captured and tortured twice.

It's not out of place she and her group had a farm and found workout equipment. They were literally raising animals to eat for protein. Abby was what the first game lacked competent enemies and competitive enemies not just cannon fodder. In the first game Joel was never outmached 1v1 unlike lee from the walking dead. There were several people capable of kicking his ass.