Viability for M+ / Raid

[Yhcti]

Sup,

I mained Warlock and Ele Shaman throughout majority of my WoW career, currently play Demon Hunter and am just levelling my Warlock to 110 with my Ele to try out M+ and casual Raiding... my query is.. I've read literally nothing about Warlocks so far this expo as focused on the DH... How do we actually perform? and are our rotations all clunky and "meh" ? Destro looked pretty fun with those rifts, but not sure how Affi and Demo play out?

Any tips/helpful pointers appreciated!

[tratra]

There is literally another post on the same forums about it, why don't you read that one.

If you are quite bored of reading, lock is one of the worst classes for m+ unless you are highly geared etc to get accepted and perform.

Same applies with raids, lock undeperforms until high level wep and gear. Also you need a minimum of 2 specs if ur going to be competitive in raiding and m+ id say as destro ST damage is quite low, Demo lacks cleave etc.

Here have a read: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post43833209

[Yhcti]

[QUOTE=tratra;43844208]There is literally another post on the same forums about it, why don't you read that one.

If you are quite bored of reading, lock is one of the worst classes for m+ unless you are highly geared etc to get accepted and perform.

Same applies with raids, lock undeperforms until high level wep and gear. Also you need a minimum of 2 specs if ur going to be competitive in raiding and m+ id say as destro ST damage is quite low, Demo lacks cleave etc.

Here have a read: [url]http://www.mmo


Didn't even bother looking to be honest sorry! i'll take a glance,

ta

[Soulzar]

I personally really enjoy all 3 specs but you will be hard pressed to find people around MMO forums who would admit the same. We perform competitively in all 3 specs. I encourage you to try the classes/specs you are interested in and see what you like.

Biggest struggle in 5 mans is without burning rush you generally feel like the fat kid in gym class trying to keep up to your group that all has baseline sprints and blinks.

[tratra]

I personally really enjoy all 3 specs but you will be hard pressed to find people around MMO forums who would admit the same. We perform competitively in all 3 specs. I encourage you to try the classes/specs you are interested in and see what you like.

Biggest struggle in 5 mans is without burning rush you generally feel like the fat kid in gym class trying to keep up to your group that all has baseline sprints and blinks.

seriously what you on about? you are saying that the fact that lock has absolutely awful to play specs is not true and its just us posters on mmo forums making it seems so?

So you love soul effigy, you love demonic empower and you adore rngjesus destro yes?

[Livnthedream]

So you love soul effigy, you love demonic empower and you adore rngjesus destro yes?

Soul Effigy is aids.

I like Demonic Empowerment. I have more of an issue with Thal'kiel's Consumption. I loved Demo in the prepatch.

Rngjesus Destro is largely fine. I don't have an issue with rng soul shards, but I do find the mastery retarded. It is supposed to even out over time, but you see pretty big swings and it just feels wrong.

And I say this as an 884 with 35 traits in both destro and affliction, with demo catching up rather quickly.

[Lucrece]

Warlock sucks in mythic+ but it's pretty strong in raids as affliction at least thus far (and pretty decent as demo/destro).

The problem with warlock is lack of strong, practical aoe and complete lack of burst. In a raid that hardly matters since few fights involve mass burst aoe and burst checks so far aren't too punishing to penalize a warlock. So the main weaknesses of a warlock are inconsequential in raids but noticeable in mythic+

[Deleted]

Depends on the instance really, their perfectly fine in Nelth, Cos, Arcway, DHT even. Obviously not in Maw ... BRH
Obviously locks dont have uber burst aoe like firemages etc. I can still do upto 1.2mil in arcway w/o even picking aoe talents and some other instances. With the talent changes coming, u will always have 1 aoe ability from the talent tree so might be better. Done multiple 15s for achivements, boosing 7-9s for 3 all the time. I wouldnt say i feel "useles" as a destro lock.

[Dismembered]

Warlock sucks in mythic+ but it's pretty strong in raids as affliction at least thus far (and pretty decent as demo/destro).

The problem with warlock is lack of strong, practical aoe and complete lack of burst. In a raid that hardly matters since few fights involve mass burst aoe and burst checks so far aren't too punishing to penalize a warlock. So the main weaknesses of a warlock are inconsequential in raids but noticeable in mythic+

Looks like you never played with seeds etc. Warlocks are pretty good in m+ period

[Gaidax]

Warlocks are fine and perform adequately to the skill of a player in both M+ and raiding.

The gripes are mostly over particular nuances with resource management and some disliked mechanics such as Soul Effigy and Demonic Empowerment.

7.1.5 introduces various changes and improvements to address some of the issues and my expectation is that performance will be good and consistent with skill level of the user.

[muto]

Depends on the instance really, their perfectly fine in Nelth, Cos, Arcway, DHT even. Obviously not in Maw ... BRH
Obviously locks dont have uber burst aoe like firemages etc. I can still do upto 1.2mil in arcway w/o even picking aoe talents and some other instances. With the talent changes coming, u will always have 1 aoe ability from the talent tree so might be better. Done multiple 15s for achivements, boosing 7-9s for 3 all the time. I wouldnt say i feel "useles" as a destro lock.

Uh what. Black Rook Hold is my favorite instance as Affliction. Never have any trouble keeping up in Maw either. Affliction is highest sustained AoE in the game.

[Lucrece]

Looks like you never played with seeds etc. Warlocks are pretty good in m+ period

If you go sow the seeds, you are trash in single target (or let's say, even more trash than usual). If you don't go sow the seeds, you won't touch a half competent havoc demonhunter, windwalker monk, frost DK or combat rogue on aoe.

Not only is havoc demonhunter higher single target than the standard affliction ST build, but you just specced into seeds so you could compete on AoE but be left in the dust on bosses.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...90&keystone=15

15

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...90&keystone=12

12

Notice the warlock and warrior specs that happen to rank very high are the single target specialists which do extremely well on the shorter dungeon fights with heroism (basically taking the slot of the shadow priest in the comp with the other two high cleave/aoe classes carrying the trash).

The two warlock cleave/aoe specs trail behind demo (and the other prominent specs for that matter) by quite a margin.

[Soulzar]

seriously what you on about? you are saying that the fact that lock has absolutely awful to play specs is not true and its just us posters on mmo forums making it seems so?

So you love soul effigy, you love demonic empower and you adore rngjesus destro yes?

No no, what are you going on about? I said I personally like them, and most here wouldnt agree with me. Do you find something wrong with that statement? Your reply seems to back it up pretty well. I did not claim in any way that my enjoyment of a class I've mained for 10 years invalidates how you or anybody else around here feels. I do not agree with you that our specs are awful to play, period. Can you handle that or do you need to go to your safe place?

I don't love Effigy, but I don't dislike it either. Siphon life not being baseline bothers me more than Effigy's implementation. I don't have any issue with Demonic Empowerment but understand how some could. I don't enjoy the change from Burning Embers to how destro plays now which is why its my 3rd fav spec currently. I've found that I have been able to play all 3 specs in my daily play time which is somethign that I really enjoy.

[muto]

If you go sow the seeds, you are trash in single target (or let's say, even more trash than usual). If you don't go sow the seeds, you won't touch a half competent havoc demonhunter, windwalker monk, frost DK or combat rogue on aoe.

No you're not. You run Sow the Seeds in conjunction with Soul Effigy unless you're doing something like BRH or Arcway then you go Phantom Singularity. Only time I run Siphon Life is in a place like Maw of Souls or Nelth's Lair where there's a lot of 2 to 3 target cleave.

[VooDsXo]

Soul Effigy is aids.

I like Demonic Empowerment. I have more of an issue with Thal'kiel's Consumption. I loved Demo in the prepatch.

Rngjesus Destro is largely fine. I don't have an issue with rng soul shards, but I do find the mastery retarded. It is supposed to even out over time, but you see pretty big swings and it just feels wrong.

And I say this as an 884 with 35 traits in both destro and affliction, with demo catching up rather quickly.

I mean Thal'kiel usage is key, some say have 6 imps up + stalkers at least, Im saying you can get 8 everytime w/o waiting except first TC then its 8 always easily, at 852 I saw a 1.7m TC in a mythic 4 so I'd be curious to see a high end lock.

Still Locks damage in Demo is fine, you have to spec for AoE which is kinda normal if you think about it for a second. Destro is no where on par, maybe "per cast" damage looks good but shard generation is horrible.

Affliction...well yea ok multi dotting is fun, having a fake add to summon is weak.

Warlocks are fine and perform adequately to the skill of a player in both M+ and raiding.

The gripes are mostly over particular nuances with resource management and some disliked mechanics such as Soul Effigy and Demonic Empowerment.

7.1.5 introduces various changes and improvements to address some of the issues and my expectation is that performance will be good and consistent with skill level of the user.

DE is quit annoying and not a good mechanic when you have to reapply it basically every summon for it to be effective. If your demons got the buff as long as it was up and running, it'd be taken a bit different. Even the devs have said Warlock gameplay isn't where it should be, it isn't compelling enough. I personally love the Demo idea, I love the demon spam and so on, but I dont like having to reapply a buff thats got 10+ seconds remaining because it just doesn't apply to new summons.

[Lucrece]

The problem with DE isn't the duration of the buff, it's that it creates further interruption and ramp up in the set up of your DPS.

You're trying to line up that 10 imp, 2 dreadstalker+ Doomguard Thal'Kiel's Consumption with grimoire of synergy up, and the demon windows are super tight with no room for having to move or getting targeted by a raid wide knockback or spear spawning under you or getting an orb, and it just fucks you over royally because you spent 2 of the casts on fucking Demonic Empowerment while praying you had procced Demonic calling and the planets aligned for your TKC.

You just summoned your set of demons and you need to cast demonic empowerment immediately but a raid mechanic just targeted you, and your demons lose out on 50%+ of their fucking damage because you had to move or die/fuck up the raid.

So much damage is baked into demonic empowerment, that's what angers people. It's a humongous, short lived maintenance buff with a stationary cast time to boot.

And it also happens to be your mana hog driving you to life tap so frequently, because demo doesn't have reverse entropy (rip destro quality of life come 7.1.5)

Demo is lovely when you can afford to turret, but that simply isn't the case for most raid fights.

[Gaidax]

(rip destro quality of life come 7.1.5)

Just a side note, Destruction is pretty tame on mana consumption, tapping once per 20 secs or so to upkeep buff is all you will need there.

[Sjeletyven]

I personally really enjoy all 3 specs but you will be hard pressed to find people around MMO forums who would admit the same. We perform competitively in all 3 specs. I encourage you to try the classes/specs you are interested in and see what you like.

Biggest struggle in 5 mans is without burning rush you generally feel like the fat kid in gym class trying to keep up to your group that all has baseline sprints and blinks.

Haha! especially when you want to take skin/pact for survivability. I agree though! Im absolutely in LOVE with affliction atm.

Spread THE AIDS!

- - - Updated - - -

Warlock sucks in mythic+ but it's pretty strong in raids as affliction at least thus far (and pretty decent as demo/destro).

The problem with warlock is lack of strong, practical aoe and complete lack of burst. In a raid that hardly matters since few fights involve mass burst aoe and burst checks so far aren't too punishing to penalize a warlock. So the main weaknesses of a warlock are inconsequential in raids but noticeable in mythic+

This statement is absolutely false. At least for affliction is really good for m+ and you have low ramp up aoe and single target dmg with correct gear and talents in addition to REALLY high artifact uptime during the instance because of how you gain souls. 750k on a 1 min 30 fight is bad burst?