Many State legislatures trying to Consolidate Power By Weakening Unions

[Kellhound]

Right to Work laws abridge freedom of association by restricting the ability of unions to form contracts.

They can make contracts, they just cant make you join the union in said contract.

[Fugus]

Oh good, shithole red states are pushing to become bigger shitholes. Can't wait for more tax money from my state to bail them out!

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/31...l-higher-taxes

They are already beating you too it.

They cut taxes on the rich, their states went into the shitter due to lack of funding, now they are planning on raising taxes that target the poor and middle class. So your tax money will be going to help them either way you cut it.

For the party of Fiscal Responsibility, they seem to be the most fiscally irresponsible groups I have ever seen.

[Wells]

They can make contracts, they just cant make you join the union in said contract.

RtW laws tell unions what kind of contracts they are allowed to seek, to the benefit of employers. Its explicitly government intervention in union/company negotiations in favor of one party.

[Kellhound]

RtW laws tell unions what kind of contracts they are allowed to seek, to the benefit of employers. Its explicitly government intervention in union/company negotiations in favor of one party.

It is giving employees the choice to belong or not. If people chose not to join, that just means the union has not given them sufficient reason to.

[Barnabas]

Ok so you don't have to join a union to work at certain places anymore since they can't bar employment if you don't join. What is the problem?

[Glorious Leader]

Ok so you don't have to join a union to work at certain places anymore since they can't bar employment if you don't join. What is the problem?

The problem is that this undermines the unions strength in collective bargaining. Strong unions could potentially be an obstacle to the neo liberal agenda so they have to be weakened.

[Unhinged]

Said the entire midwest and south.

Said the enitre country.

[Kellhound]

The problem is that this undermines the unions strength in collective bargaining. Strong unions could potentially be an obstacle to the neo liberal agenda so they have to be weakened.

It only affects it if the union cannot show its worth to the majority of the workers.

[Wells]

It is giving employees the choice to belong or not. If people chose not to join, that just means the union has not given them sufficient reason to.

Closed shops don't violate rights because you have no right to an employment contract solely on the terms you desire. RtW does however prevent unions from negotiating for a contract based purely on what government would prefer for the sake of employers.

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It only affects it if the union cannot show its worth to the majority of the workers.

This ignores the entire nature of commons and how they're a frequent form of market failure. Allowing free riders presents everyone with a financial incentive to not pay into the union while benefiting from its work. Its fisheries, but for labor markets.

[Kellhound]

Closed shops don't violate rights because you have no right to an employment contract solely on the terms you desire. RtW does however prevent unions from negotiating for a contract based purely on what government would prefer for the sake of employers.

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This ignores the entire nature of commons and how they're a frequent form of market failure. Allowing free riders presents everyone with a financial incentive to not pay into the union while benefiting from its work. Its fisheries, but for labor markets.

Which of course is exactly what unions want with a closed shop. RtW prevents a union from forcing employees that didnt want the union in the first place from being part of it.

Simple solution, dont make unions responsible in any manner for non members. No more free riders on either side.

[Exedore]

Legislatures aren't consolidating power - they're helping everyone by making the market more free and fair. Unions can be positive in some aspects, but most major unions in the US are a detriment because they engage in protectionism and prevent healthy competition. Just look at Detroit if you want to see the long-term consequences of labor union power.

The core of Right-to-Work is the elimination of mandatory union membership and dues. If a worker feels that the union isn't representing their interests or isn't needed, they don't join or contribute. If that worker feels that the union will benefit them, they can contribute. Nothing about right-to-work is stopping unions from existing.

And although unions are formed with good intentions, they never stick to them. Once a union is established, they have a position of power. When competition inevitably comes along, the union uses labor contracts and disruptions to production (strikes) to prevent it from taking hold. Lack of competition causes prices to remain high and discourages innovation. A larger unions becomes even more entrenched and uses government to maintain its position. Large entrenched unions also breed terrible worker behavior. I'm not saying all union workers are bad, but there's certainly enough examples of unproductive employees who should have been fired long ago, but are still around earning an above-market wage because the unions protect them. Forced membership and forced dues just maintains the vicious cycle. At the same time, these practices also hurt the productive workers - limits to number of hours, practices based on seniority rather than ability. And they hurt the consumer - process improvements which might eliminate jobs and make the cost of a product cheaper are shunned.

When the burden of unions becomes too large, businesses just up and leave - or go bankrupt and shut down.

[Darththeo]

Legislatures aren't consolidating power - they're helping everyone by making the market more free and fair. Unions can be positive in some aspects, but most major unions in the US are a detriment because they engage in protectionism and prevent healthy competition. Just look at Detroit if you want to see the long-term consequences of labor union power.

The core of Right-to-Work is the elimination of mandatory union membership and dues. If a worker feels that the union isn't representing their interests or isn't needed, they don't join or contribute. If that worker feels that the union will benefit them, they can contribute. Nothing about right-to-work is stopping unions from existing.

And although unions are formed with good intentions, they never stick to them. Once a union is established, they have a position of power. When competition inevitably comes along, the union uses labor contracts and disruptions to production (strikes) to prevent it from taking hold. Lack of competition causes prices to remain high and discourages innovation. A larger unions becomes even more entrenched and uses government to maintain its position. Large entrenched unions also breed terrible worker behavior. I'm not saying all union workers are bad, but there's certainly enough examples of unproductive employees who should have been fired long ago, but are still around earning an above-market wage because the unions protect them. Forced membership and forced dues just maintains the vicious cycle. At the same time, these practices also hurt the productive workers - limits to number of hours, practices based on seniority rather than ability. And they hurt the consumer - process improvements which might eliminate jobs and make the cost of a product cheaper are shunned.

When the burden of unions becomes too large, businesses just up and leave - or go bankrupt and shut down.

Wow, did you drink the Anti-Union koolaid ... none of that is true.

[Masark]

It only affects it if the union cannot show its worth to the majority of the workers.

Or if the company can propagandize/threaten said workers into not being part of the union.

[Stormdash]

In other words, you are okay with employers paying people unequally for equal work.

Show me two employees whose work is of genuinely equal value, and I'll show you a unicorn driving santa's sleigh across the brooklyn bridge I have for sale.

I think I pay less than 30 dollars a pay check (which is for 80 hrs work) to my union. I don't know anyone who pays a ridiculous fees.

If you wish to join a union, bully for you, but nobody should be forced to, ever, in any context, or under any circumstance, in any industry

[Kellhound]

Or if the company can propagandize/threaten said workers into not being part of the union.

If the employees are that weak minded, they deserve what they get.

[Fugus]

If the employees are that weak minded, they deserve what they get.

If the employees are weak minded, that is even more of a reason to have a union to fight on their behalf. Not only for the collective bargaining for them but also to keep them from being taken advantage of by employers trying to get over.

These right to freeload laws honestly are crap and allow scabs to profit off unions without supporting them till they collapse due to lack of funding which was the entire point.

And as far as the unions being banned from donating to political causes, I am in complete agreement so long as PACs, SuperPACs and all donations are banned as well and the entire thing is changed into a publicly funded campaign where no one can pay for their campaigns and they can not self fund their campaign either and the only ones exempted from the donations and self funding ban would be those who polled too low to qualify for the public funding and even they would be capped at the self funding levels.

They shouldn't be able to sell out for funding while they are in and if they can't manage the money they are given in their campaign, how can we expect them to manage the finances of a nation.

It should come down to the will of voters, not the will of the donors and their ability to drown out the other guys with money.

[Machismo]

Individuals should not be forced to pay dues to a union they do not wish to join. If you want to be a part of a union, good for you. If you want to force your fellow workers into a union, you are a shitty human being.

[Fugus]

Individuals should not be forced to pay dues to a union they do not wish to join. If you want to be a part of a union, good for you. If you want to force your fellow workers into a union, you are a shitty human being.

If you don't want to join a union, then don't go to a job that has a union.

Just like the whole "If you don't like the pay of the job find a new job" it kinda goes both ways especially when unions are there to actually help serve a purpose to help offset the power imbalance between the employer and employees to get some equitable kind of compensation.

[Machismo]

If you don't want to join a union, then don't go to a job that has a union.

Just like the whole "If you don't like the pay of the job find a new job" it kinda goes both ways especially when unions are there to actually help serve a purpose to help offset the power imbalance between the employer and employees to get some equitable kind of compensation.

If a company demands that all its employees be a part of a union, then that is something the employee would agree upon when joining that company. If a company does not require it, then any co-worker who does try to force someone into it is a shitty human being. If a union does not like it, they can simply choose not to have any of their employees work for that company. A job should be between an employer and an employee. If neither the company or the employee wants union involvement, then there's no reason at all to have the union involved, even if other employees choose to be a part of a union.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Arent you from Canada? How does this affect you?

I have no strong opinion on this thread's subject, but to your post, anything that happens in the US, directly and indirectly, has an impact here in Canada.

It is only logical then that Canadians have a thorough interest in being up-to-date about everything related to the US. Just so you know, the US elections gathered more interest here than our federal elections, which is the first time in history this happen.