[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[joltcola1234]

Well Jimmy boy dropped me an ilevel 875 arcanocrystal

That trumps most of the trinkets ill get in ToS

[Hellshout]

Multi-target Legendary Analysis
[indent]
Single legendary ranking:

How is it possible for ED to be higher than Elune when you fight 5 targets for 5 minutes and never cast SS(i'm assuming)? Either you never cast LS/SW or ED is such a high stat stick it's better than 8% dmg for LS... I got 24k more on HecticAdd with Elune compared to ED.

Also, for a fight like Inquisition, is the cheese build better than the standard AoE? I'm mainly using SFall since the bosses are in range of it, but on specials I focus the other with SS.
Thanks.

Well Jimmy boy dropped me an ilevel 875 arcanocrystal

That trumps most of the trinkets ill get in ToS

I keep reading and seeing Booms with UA, but my sims are always lower with it. I got a 865 + socket and it was worse than Metro 890.
Now I have a 900 Whisp and 900 Sentinel. I guess those are my go to, right?

[Slippykins]

How is it possible for ED to be higher than Elune when you fight 5 targets for 5 minutes and never cast SS(i'm assuming)? Either you never cast LS/SW or ED is such a high stat stick it's better than 8% dmg for LS... I got 24k more on HecticAdd with Elune compared to ED.

Also, for a fight like Inquisition, is the cheese build better than the standard AoE? I'm mainly using SFall since the bosses are in range of it, but on specials I focus the other with SS.
Thanks.

Correct it's because ED has much higher stats than Elune, and very little DPS comes from Starfire on AoE cleave. HecticAddCleave will prioritise haste due to spell clipping and movement, the APL isn't optimised to deal with that. Regardless, there's so little between the two that it's within standard error anyway. I would just say they're indistinguishable.

Yeah LatC/OI or LatC/SotA with SotF/ShS/SD is best for inquisition. Definitely a good fight for cleave, and it's worth taking the torment hit during specials to maintain your Starfall.

[Hellshout]

and very little DPS comes from Starfire on AoE cleave

You mean Lunar Strike?
I did some math after a fight with LS+SW and the 8% was like 500k dmg. Sounds stupidly for a stat stick to be better than a lego equip, but whatever.

How do you suggest I sim an add fight if Hectic is not quite good? I'm still out of luck regarding proper legos(ED and IFE are worth noting) and atm I'm using Elune for adds, but your response got me demoralized. Maybe try Sephuz if I can cc adds from mistress/harja etc? Or Cinidaria?
Thanks.

[Fappy]

Damn, the new 4pc feels so good. It really adds another level of play to the spec too. Haven't tried it with ED, but it works fantastically with IO. If you get a string of procs you're in haste heaven for 15+ seconds.

Really not a fan of keeping up with t19 2pc though. Only have 4/6 t20, so I am stuck using my ultra shit 875 helm until I get a t20 one (which will pretty much need to be a bonus roll if I expect to get it any time soon).

[Slippykins]

You mean Lunar Strike?
I did some math after a fight with LS+SW and the 8% was like 500k dmg. Sounds stupidly for a stat stick to be better than a lego equip, but whatever.

How do you suggest I sim an add fight if Hectic is not quite good? I'm still out of luck regarding proper legos(ED and IFE are worth noting) and atm I'm using Elune for adds, but your response got me demoralized. Maybe try Sephuz if I can cc adds from mistress/harja etc? Or Cinidaria?
Thanks.

To sim AoE, go with a patchwerk fight and just change the number of targets to 3 or 5.

And yes, Starfire is the old name for LS.

[earthwormjim]

I keep reading and seeing Booms with UA, but my sims are always lower with it. I got a 865 + socket and it was worse than Metro 890.
Now I have a 900 Whisp and 900 Sentinel. I guess those are my go to, right?

Consistency is king for high end progression guilds. It's really hard to make cutting edge choices about whether or not your DPS can push timers if your DPS varies by +/-20%.

Also Whispers can proc at very inopportune times, causing you to do worse DPS at critical times.

If you're not pushing content, then it's not really a big deal, wear whatever sims higher.

[Myztikrice]

Most people are using Whispers/UA or Whispers/Owl. The conversation has nothing to do with Whispers, the benfits outweigh the RNG factor. The question is about UA vs something like Metronome, and for me the UA pulled out slightly ahead while being more consistent (our T20 4pc slightly devaluing haste)

[Taalyn]

Does Moonkin Form and Circadian Invocation affect Umbral Moonglaives?

[earthwormjim]

Most people are using Whispers/UA or Whispers/Owl. The conversation has nothing to do with Whispers, the benfits outweigh the RNG factor. The question is about UA vs something like Metronome, and for me the UA pulled out slightly ahead while being more consistent (our T20 4pc slightly devaluing haste)

Are we reading the same post? He was asking about using UA period. He then questioned why anyone would use it at all, because his Metronome, which is not one of our best trinkets anymore, sims higher than an 860 UA.

There are quite a few moonkins in top 20 world guilds who replaced their Whispers with UA by the way on a few fights. The benefits of Whispers do not always outweigh the RNG factor in all cases. Whispers sucked on Mythic Harjatan. It repeatedly would proc 15 seconds before it was time to kill egg adds, so I had the debuff during critical AOE parts of the fight. This made it much harder to get my dots set up due to the extra long GCD.

Similarly on Mythic Sisters, it would proc when the owl add was at high %, then I would be stuck with the debuff when it was critical to kill the owl add quickly. If I had a good UA, not a baseline 860 one, I would definitely dump Whispers for fights with critical timers.

[joltcola1234]

I managed to grab the 2pc tier 20 tonight - the 130 astral power is nice

Is it still optimal to build up to 120+ astral power before using Starsurge?

Using a lot more SW and LS that are unempowered now that I have 130 AP

I'm using OI and IFE for most fights

[Myztikrice]

Are we reading the same post? He was asking about using UA period. He then questioned why anyone would use it at all, because his Metronome, which is not one of our best trinkets anymore, sims higher than an 860 UA.

Irony?

Are we reading the same post? He was asking about using UA period.

The conversation has nothing to do with Whispers, the benfits outweigh the RNG factor. The question is about UA

He then questioned why anyone would use it at all, because his Metronome, which is not one of our best trinkets anymore, sims higher than an 860 UA.

for me the UA pulled out slightly ahead while being more consistent

I addressed everything you said I supposedly never addressed, you seem to have read the incorrect post of mine.

There are quite a few moonkins in top 20 world guilds who replaced their Whispers with UA by the way on a few fights. The benefits of Whispers do not always outweigh the RNG factor in all cases. Whispers sucked on Mythic Harjatan. It repeatedly would proc 15 seconds before it was time to kill egg adds, so I had the debuff during critical AOE parts of the fight. This made it much harder to get my dots set up due to the extra long GCD.

Similarly on Mythic Sisters, it would proc when the owl add was at high %, then I would be stuck with the debuff when it was critical to kill the owl add quickly. If I had a good UA, not a baseline 860 one, I would definitely dump Whispers for fights with critical timers.

There are 9 logs in the top 100 that didn't use Whispers. Also your personal experience with the trinket isn't a factor in the discussion.

[joltcola1234]

There are 9 logs in the top 100 that didn't use Whispers. Also your personal experience with the trinket isn't a factor in the discussion.

I'm pretty sure that most top world guilds aren't using public logs at the moment, unless they are and I'm wrong...well then I'll show myself out.

[Hellshout]

I did have some unfortunate experiences with Whispers. It proc-d from dots right when we were running towards Maiden, by the time I could stand and cast, I got debuff and BL was up. Bad RNG I guess.
Anyway, SotA simmed lower for me than Elune in a fight, I think 2 targets AoE, I forgot. And I was baffled why, because SotA gives 20% dmg and Elune gives 8%. But Elune gives me 1600 int over what I have and SotA nothing
So all things considered, unless I'll ever get a 880+ UA, I'll keep using Whispers. I'm also considering the on use trinket with haste if I get it 920+. I dislike the randomness of Whispers so much...

[earthwormjim]

There are 9 logs in the top 100 that didn't use Whispers. Also your personal experience with the trinket isn't a factor in the discussion.

Private logs do not exist apparently.

[vorchun]

Private logs do not exist apparently.

Unless you have access to all those private logs and can prove that nobody in those private logs use Whispers it's still bis trinket. Do you have that access?

[earthwormjim]

Unless you have access to all those private logs and can prove that nobody in those private logs use Whispers it's still bis trinket. Do you have that access?

You're asking me to post private logs for a pissing contest? Grow up.

I never said it wasn't BIS, simply stated it is inconsistent, hence why it is not always appropriate to use on every fight.

[Malmmoc]

Some people think simcraft is the only thing you should base decisions on. It isn't.

[vorchun]

You're asking me to post private logs for a pissing contest? Grow up.

I never said it wasn't BIS, simply stated it is inconsistent, hence why it is not always appropriate to use on every fight.

I don't need your logs, get over yourself, all I'm asking is for you to stop posting bullshit like "No good player uses Whispers, but you can't see it because their logs are private". Trinket is inconsistent? Maybe so, but there's no situation on any boss where one boomkin having Whispers debuff in critical moment will be deciding factor of boss being killed or not.

[earthwormjim]

I don't need your logs, get over yourself, all I'm asking is for you to stop posting bullshit like "No good player uses Whispers, but you can't see it because their logs are private". Trinket is inconsistent? Maybe so, but there's no situation on any boss where one boomkin having Whispers debuff in critical moment will be deciding factor of boss being killed or not.

Now I see you're just trolling, I like your quotes, implying that is exactly what I said...

How about let's agree that you do not care about consistency, and I and other people do on certain fights.