1. #1

    Affliction: AOE dungeon strat?

    Hi guys, I recently started leveling up my warlock and I really love affliction. Only problem is in dungeons everything seems to die too fast to get benefit out of things like seed of corruption.

    Does anyone have a quick primer on how to play affliction in burst AOE situations? Is the idea to burst a seed ASAP, or just spam seed like in the old days, or something else I'm missing?

    What build and rotation would you guys use in a low mythic where you're just farming chests?

    What artifact traits should I go for first if I'm mostly going to be doing dungeons?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Hi guys, I recently started leveling up my warlock and I really love affliction. Only problem is in dungeons everything seems to die too fast to get benefit out of things like seed of corruption.

    Does anyone have a quick primer on how to play affliction in burst AOE situations? Is the idea to burst a seed ASAP, or just spam seed like in the old days, or something else I'm missing?

    What build and rotation would you guys use in a low mythic where you're just farming chests?

    What artifact traits should I go for first if I'm mostly going to be doing dungeons?
    You don't do shit in burst aoe situations because affliction cannot compete in burst aoe outside pulling very large packs and relying on soul flame detonations to carry your damage.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    In burst AOE situations it's a good idea to watch the tanks movement, around 1 second before you think he's/she's pulling cast a UA on a target followed by a seed this will detonate your seed quite quickly, if the trash mobs are low health mobs soul flame will take care of the rest.

    If the trash is going to live awhile use seed first followed by 2-3 agonies on seperate targets (these agonies won't detonate your seed straight away so if you have an abundance of shards pop a UA on a target to set them off quickly), these will help your soul shard generation to keep spamming seed until they die.

    Make sure to drain soul targets that are about to die to try and grab some shards to help with your next pull/more SoC.

    Also a misconception some warlocks have is the importance of mastery in dungeons, seed of corruption is a big deal in dungeons and doesn't benefit off of your mastery neither does soul flame so favouring Crit/haste over mastery for bigger SoC/SF hits and having the ability to cast them SoCs faster can be a big deal to help your SoC damage. Obviously keep your mastery high but try and get your Crit between 20-25%
    Last edited by mmoc61ee5a449a; 2017-01-22 at 04:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by adayinthedark View Post
    In burst AOE situations it's a good idea to watch the tanks movement, around 1 second before you think he's/she's pulling cast a UA on a target followed by a seed this will detonate your seed quite quickly, if the trash mobs are low health mobs soul flame will take care of the rest.

    If the trash is going to live awhile use seed first followed by 2-3 agonies on seperate targets (these agonies won't detonate your seed straight away so if you have an abundance of shards pop a UA on a target to set them off quickly), these will help your soul shard generation to keep spamming seed until they die.

    Make sure to drain soul targets that are about to die to try and grab some shards to help with your next pull/more SoC.

    Also a misconception some warlocks have is the importance of mastery in dungeons, seed of corruption is a big deal in dungeons and doesn't benefit off of your mastery neither does soul flame so favouring Crit/haste over mastery for bigger SoC/SF hits and having the ability to cast them SoCs faster can be a big deal to help your SoC damage. Obviously keep your mastery high but try and get your Crit between 20-25%
    Thanks a lot aditk. Do you recommend taking Phantom Singularity for these or would you stick with Soul Conduit?

  5. #5
    Deleted
    No problem glad I could help, you definitely want to keep soul conduit as it can help greatly with bosses and also with trash as SoC now costs 1 shard.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    In dungeons as Affliction I run with a heavy Crit/haste build, as haste helps casting those SoC faster. IF the mobs will live long enough (as in high m+) you use AC, if not, it's not worth using. SC for SoC+UA spam is way better than PS.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by adayinthedark View Post
    In burst AOE situations it's a good idea to watch the tanks movement, around 1 second before you think he's/she's pulling cast a UA on a target followed by a seed this will detonate your seed quite quickly, if the trash mobs are low health mobs soul flame will take care of the rest.

    If the trash is going to live awhile use seed first followed by 2-3 agonies on seperate targets (these agonies won't detonate your seed straight away so if you have an abundance of shards pop a UA on a target to set them off quickly), these will help your soul shard generation to keep spamming seed until they die.

    Make sure to drain soul targets that are about to die to try and grab some shards to help with your next pull/more SoC.

    Also a misconception some warlocks have is the importance of mastery in dungeons, seed of corruption is a big deal in dungeons and doesn't benefit off of your mastery neither does soul flame so favouring Crit/haste over mastery for bigger SoC/SF hits and having the ability to cast them SoCs faster can be a big deal to help your SoC damage. Obviously keep your mastery high but try and get your Crit between 20-25%
    This is very useful advice, only thing I would like to add is the importance of Artifact traits for afflic aoe. Major players being: Soul flame and wrath of consumption, seeds of doom and hideous corruption also helps.

    With artifact traits it becomes extremely important to have reap up when using seed.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    You don't do shit in burst aoe situations because affliction cannot compete in burst aoe outside pulling very large packs and relying on soul flame detonations to carry your damage.
    You clearly have no idea what youre talking about.

    to OP. In most larger pulls, especially moving quickly in m+ where there is no setup time, but just chaining, i throw out agony/corr and cast seed on tuat target. I the spread agonys and weave in seeds. They will keep popping, you refresh agonys, your damage shoots through the roof. Even if its low level, ill tag one and get a seed out asap because it will pop if that dies and soul flame will do the rest. It isnt hard to do over 1 mil dps on any pull where i expect to be chain cast seeds or soul flmae to be popping off.

    i only ever use 1 m+ spec. Same for 2s as 15+, fort or tyrannical. Mg, contagion (you can use any here though), x (been using mortal coil for snap heal if i need it. Its a mini healthstone and good cc), sts, burning rush, supremacy, conduit. Packs 3 or fewer spread dots and tunnel uas, 4 or more spam seed like crazy.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BannedForViews View Post
    You clearly have no idea what youre talking about.

    to OP. In most larger pulls, especially moving quickly in m+ where there is no setup time, but just chaining, i throw out agony/corr and cast seed on tuat target. I the spread agonys and weave in seeds. They will keep popping, you refresh agonys, your damage shoots through the roof. Even if its low level, ill tag one and get a seed out asap because it will pop if that dies and soul flame will do the rest. It isnt hard to do over 1 mil dps on any pull where i expect to be chain cast seeds or soul flmae to be popping off.

    i only ever use 1 m+ spec. Same for 2s as 15+, fort or tyrannical. Mg, contagion (you can use any here though), x (been using mortal coil for snap heal if i need it. Its a mini healthstone and good cc), sts, burning rush, supremacy, conduit. Packs 3 or fewer spread dots and tunnel uas, 4 or more spam seed like crazy.
    OP is clearly talking about dungeon leveling, aka everything dies in literally 5-8 seconds, not about m+

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by woitseck View Post
    OP is clearly talking about dungeon leveling, aka everything dies in literally 5-8 seconds, not about m+
    While I don't disagree that leveling 5 man content dies faster, the person BFV quoted made a generalized statement that aff locks cant burst AoE, which I agree with BFV is complete nonsense. Yes, there are classes than can burst faster... but Aff is well above the curve in that department.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If a tank is engaging mobs and I am already in range, I will precast seed and immediately follow it up with UA to pop seed and get corruption up.
    If I am not in range and the tank has already pulled, I will use Agony as a feeler spell to know when I am in range since it is instant and can be cast while moving. Once Agony applies and I know I am in range I will Seed+UA to get corruption up.

    After that, it depends on my shard count and how fast the packs are dieing. If trash is dieing fast fast... you can just chain cast a few seeds into your UA/Agony target and then get those shards backs sniping the adds as they die. If its longer lived trash you will want to get 2-3 agonies out to fuel seed spam until the mobs are low enough that you can then regain shards back. Longer lived trash you will want to weave Agony refreshes in between you seeds, however many times you wont really want to bother refreshing Agony as the mobs will be dieing sooner than later and those globals would be better spent on another seed or two.

    Always always always be sniping shards from the dieing mobs to fuel your next pull. You don't need to rely on setting up agonies in many situations if you go into a pull with 5 shards.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    While I don't disagree that leveling 5 man content dies faster, the person BFV quoted made a generalized statement that aff locks cant burst AoE, which I agree with BFV is complete nonsense. Yes, there are classes than can burst faster... but Aff is well above the curve in that department.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If a tank is engaging mobs and I am already in range, I will precast seed and immediately follow it up with UA to pop seed and get corruption up.
    If I am not in range and the tank has already pulled, I will use Agony as a feeler spell to know when I am in range since it is instant and can be cast while moving. Once Agony applies and I know I am in range I will Seed+UA to get corruption up.

    After that, it depends on my shard count and how fast the packs are dieing. If trash is dieing fast fast... you can just chain cast a few seeds into your UA/Agony target and then get those shards backs sniping the adds as they die. If its longer lived trash you will want to get 2-3 agonies out to fuel seed spam until the mobs are low enough that you can then regain shards back. Longer lived trash you will want to weave Agony refreshes in between you seeds, however many times you wont really want to bother refreshing Agony as the mobs will be dieing sooner than later and those globals would be better spent on another seed or two.

    Always always always be sniping shards from the dieing mobs to fuel your next pull. You don't need to rely on setting up agonies in many situations if you go into a pull with 5 shards.
    Affliction outside very large and short lived pulls won't ever qualify as burst aoe. With sow the seeds, you could dump 3+ shards worth of seeds (which would involve the cast time and detonation delay) and still come far short of what a half competent windwalker, havoc demonhunter, or combat rogue could burst aoe for.

    Affliction is a strong sustained aoe class, but in the OP's question there is no other answer than to tell him, no, you will never hang in there with havoc/WW/combat/fire mage in burst aoe in normal dungeons.

    The good news is affliction can beat all of those except havoc and combat (with legendary bracers only) in single target, and has the luxury of being a ranged DPS so they can actually aid the group in dealing with mechanics without significant DPS loss.

    Pros and cons. Melee bring more burst, but they're melee with all the baggage that brings.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by woitseck View Post
    OP is clearly talking about dungeon leveling, aka everything dies in literally 5-8 seconds, not about m+
    "Does anyone have a quick primer on how to play affliction in burst AOE situations? Is the idea to burst a seed ASAP, or just spam seed like in the old days, or something else I'm missing?

    What build and rotation would you guys use in a low mythic where you're just farming chests?

    What artifact traits should I go for first if I'm mostly going to be doing dungeons? "


    The above is a direct copy/paste of the OP.

    How do you guys, who are not leveling a warlock, handle burst aoe? How do you farm chests in mythics? Maybe take a second and familiarize yourself with the 10 post thread before you flame me for a response.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Affliction outside very large and short lived pulls won't ever qualify as burst aoe. With sow the seeds, you could dump 3+ shards worth of seeds (which would involve the cast time and detonation delay) and still come far short of what a half competent windwalker, havoc demonhunter, or combat rogue could burst aoe for.

    Affliction is a strong sustained aoe class, but in the OP's question there is no other answer than to tell him, no, you will never hang in there with havoc/WW/combat/fire mage in burst aoe in normal dungeons.

    The good news is affliction can beat all of those except havoc and combat (with legendary bracers only) in single target, and has the luxury of being a ranged DPS so they can actually aid the group in dealing with mechanics without significant DPS loss.

    Pros and cons. Melee bring more burst, but they're melee with all the baggage that brings.
    What is your evidence/experience to say that we cannot provide quality aoe burst? What is your metric? How much damage do I have to pull on a pack of 3, 4, 5, 6 to get you to think that I'm able to do enough damage to "hang with the big boys"? How much overall dps do I have to do for a dungeon for you to think that I'm capable of doing viable damage?

    I would seriously like to know what some of you think counts as good dps for a warlock, or what you seem to believe other classes are pulling over the course of a dungeon.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BannedForViews View Post
    "Does anyone have a quick primer on how to play affliction in burst AOE situations? Is the idea to burst a seed ASAP, or just spam seed like in the old days, or something else I'm missing?

    What build and rotation would you guys use in a low mythic where you're just farming chests?

    What artifact traits should I go for first if I'm mostly going to be doing dungeons? "


    The above is a direct copy/paste of the OP.

    How do you guys, who are not leveling a warlock, handle burst aoe? How do you farm chests in mythics? Maybe take a second and familiarize yourself with the 10 post thread before you flame me for a response.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What is your evidence/experience to say that we cannot provide quality aoe burst? What is your metric? How much damage do I have to pull on a pack of 3, 4, 5, 6 to get you to think that I'm able to do enough damage to "hang with the big boys"? How much overall dps do I have to do for a dungeon for you to think that I'm capable of doing viable damage?

    I would seriously like to know what some of you think counts as good dps for a warlock, or what you seem to believe other classes are pulling over the course of a dungeon.
    You disregarded the second paragraph. I never said affliction aoe is bad, or overall damage is bad.

    I said affliction cannot compete in BURST aoe with burst aoe classes in the OP's scenario.

    I never said affliction does not do viable damage or is not desirable in m+.

    I said affliction aoe burst outside some very niche scenarios like oozes/rats in arcway or imps/treasure demons in vault, cannot compete with the burst of WW or havoc or combat. Because they simply do not have ramp up. They vomit it straight out. They don't have to set up agony on 2-3 targets, cast a a 2 second cast projectile, and detonate that projectile with another 1-2 seconds of drain soul or a UA tick.

    I guess I needed to clarify under what definition of burst I'm operating in. If the mobs are dying within an eyebeam+fury of the illidari channel or serenity/SEF fists of fury, which they are in the OP's scenario, affliction is playing the losing game because Affliction AoE has delay built in its delivery.

    Look at the top scorpyron parses, or any video with an affliction lock doing 4 million DPS. It takes time for the warlock to climb up, the first 10 seconds all you see are the mages/demonhunters/hunters spiking up, after which some time affliction overtakes them because mobs finally starts to die and proc soul flame and the corruptions from seed detonations get rolling on top of the detonations themselves go off.

    I don't see what's wrong with that. For most of the content that matters right now, affliction's even slower delivery still works great. The OP is just going through irrelevant pains. Affliction locks aren't built to top charts on some normal or random heroic dungeon speed runs. Classes like ret pally are. But we are better than ret paladin in mythics and raids once the burst stops skewing figures on longer fights.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2017-01-23 at 09:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    You disregarded the second paragraph. I never said affliction aoe is bad, or overall damage is bad.

    I said affliction cannot compete in BURST aoe with burst aoe classes in the OP's scenario.

    I never said affliction does not do viable damage or is not desirable in m+.

    I said affliction aoe burst outside some very niche scenarios like oozes/rats in arcway or imps/treasure demons in vault, cannot compete with the burst of WW or havoc or combat. Because they simply do not have ramp up. They vomit it straight out. They don't have to set up agony on 2-3 targets, cast a a 2 second cast projectile, and detonate that projectile with another 1-2 seconds of drain soul or a UA tick.

    I guess I needed to clarify under what definition of burst I'm operating in. If the mobs are dying within an eyebeam+fury of the illidari channel or serenity/SEF fists of fury, which they are in the OP's scenario, affliction is playing the losing game because Affliction AoE has delay built in its delivery.

    Look at the top scorpyron parses, or any video with an affliction lock doing 4 million DPS. It takes time for the warlock to climb up, the first 10 seconds all you see are the mages/demonhunters/hunters spiking up, after which some time affliction overtakes them because mobs finally starts to die and proc soul flame and the corruptions from seed detonations get rolling on top of the detonations themselves go off.

    I don't see what's wrong with that. For most of the content that matters right now, affliction's even slower delivery still works great. The OP is just going through irrelevant pains. Affliction locks aren't built to top charts on some normal or random heroic dungeon speed runs. Classes like ret pally are. But we are better than ret paladin in mythics and raids once the burst stops skewing figures on longer fights.

    I was more interested in what parameters you were talking about. If you mean the leveling dungeons the OP is doing then yes you're right, but I don't have trouble doing damage in my daily heroics, or in a +15. It isn't always the same, or as effective, but I don't ever feel like I'm uncompetitive. The real issue is who can get their damage their first, and if you're a slow moving warlock who's last to get damage out, then yes, you will look weaker on the meters.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BannedForViews View Post
    I was more interested in what parameters you were talking about. If you mean the leveling dungeons the OP is doing then yes you're right, but I don't have trouble doing damage in my daily heroics, or in a +15. It isn't always the same, or as effective, but I don't ever feel like I'm uncompetitive. The real issue is who can get their damage their first, and if you're a slow moving warlock who's last to get damage out, then yes, you will look weaker on the meters.
    Yeah, that's all I meant to say. Which is why I don't do the whole 2 souls per drain because I can simply inflate my numbers on short fights by dumping 3-4 shards and the boss dies in like 30-45 secs and my numbers look a lot better than if I played properly.

    Affliction warlock is in a ridiculously good spot, and I don't mind ramp up because unlike shit ass moonkins there is a payoff to everything we do. We got great ST and sustained aoe, we're not a gimmick class.

    I just don't come into affliction expecting it to be a burst spec. So I tell people that the spec is not there for burst on meaningless content, it does damage where it matters.

  16. #16
    Nice tips, I find positioning and planning out when to get a head start on your damage helps. But even that can be really unpredictable, especially when there is melee mongoloiding things. I never understand why blizz gives them more damage by default, with the amount of gap closers they give out it's kind of redundant.
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2017-01-24 at 02:30 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by woitseck View Post
    OP is clearly talking about dungeon leveling, aka everything dies in literally 5-8 seconds, not about m+
    I am not leveling through dungeons (Just been doing the 1 dungeon per legion zone for the big xp reward). I am not at M+ stage yet but I wanted this info for when I ding 110 and for the questline dungeons (currently level 107).

    Thanks a lot for the great replies so far.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2017-01-24 at 10:33 AM.

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