Shrunken British army fears Russia could destroy it in an afternoon!

[Deleted]

Defence cuts have “effectively removed” Britain’s ability to “deliver and sustain” an effective fighting force against a “competent” enemy such as Russia, according to the army’s think tank. Report adds that cuts have hollowed out and depleted the army's capabilities.

'The prospect of "losing the division in an afternoon" will weigh heavily on the chain of command, with strategic-to-tactical command compression almost inevitable as politicians appreciate the stakes involved in committing the division to battle.'

The report was compiled by the Centre for Historical Analysis and Conflict Research (CHACR), the army's own think tank, which is based at the royal military academy in Sandhurst.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ne...noon-3jlbwgq3t (paywall)

European countries need to wake up now. With Trump in power and his view that the US shouldn't have to pay for other countries defences (and rightfully so imo) it's up to European countries themseles to start investing in military power again.

[Deleted]

It's in Europe's interest to be able to defend itself, no?

[Deleted]

It's in Europe's interest to be able to defend itself, no?

It should be, but after decades of having the US pay for it we are in no shape to defend ourselves against any real threat.

The only countries that are really investing are the Eastern European countries that already feel Putin/Russia breathing in their necks.

[Kalis]

I think they always come out with stuff like this when they want increased funding.

Britain spends more on its military than most countries in the world, 5th overall, the highest of any European nation bar Russia. France, the other European nuclear power, also spends quite a bit, it is the rest of Europe that needs to up their defence contributions.

[Deleted]

any why should Russia do that?

There are probably like 3 billion people in this world who could beat me up, but that doesn't mean I am going to waste my time on working out and increasing my strength. I am just too busy surfing the internet ^^

[Deleted]

I think they always come out with stuff like this when they want increased funding.

Britain spends more on its military than most countries in the world, 5th overall, the highest of any European nation bar Russia. France, the other European nuclear power, also spends quite a bit, it is the rest of Europe that needs to up their defence contributions.

Youre right, the UK spends more than most other Western-EU countries. And that it's not enough makes me worry about the rest of the EU even more.
My own country is one of those examples. We couldnt even hold off another country for an hour.

[Zeta333]

It should be, but after decades of having the US pay for it we are in no shape to defend ourselves against any real threat.

The only countries that are really investing are the Eastern European countries that already feel Putin/Russia breathing in their necks.

then maby europe should do a little less crying and a little more building up.

[Daws]

If the Russians ever went on the move against the UK and it came down to ground forces of course they would win they have 700,000 odd personnel and 2 million reserves vs the UK 150,00 troops and 80,000 reserves. Here's the thing though Russia would likely have to go through half of Europe to do this and at that point it would quickly be the world vs Russia and they'd loose.

[Breccia]

I still firmly believe that Putin does not want war. He wants his people to think war could come at any time, because that keeps him in power.

He's not actually interested in testing how far his aging military infrastructure could go by launching an unprovoked attack. China does not have Russia's back on such.

Plus, Trump's golf course is over there, so...

[Kalis]

Youre right, the UK spends more than most other Western-EU countries. And that it's not enough makes me worry about the rest of the EU even more.
My own country is one of those examples. We couldnt even hold off another country for an hour.

I think the Army Chiefs may be exaggerating their plight. Admittedly we don't have any aircraft carriers at the moment, but that is a weakness in power projection, not defensive capability. We are a nuclear power, no conventional army is going to threaten the UK itself.

2015 military budgets, in USD Billions, for reference:

1 United States 597.5
2 China 145.8
3 Saudi Arabia 81.9
4 Russia 65.6
5 United Kingdom 56.2
6 India 48.0
7 France 46.8
8 Japan 41.0
9 Germany 36.7
10 South Korea 33.5
11 Brazil 24.3
12 Australia 22.8
13 Italy 21.6
14 Iraq 21.1
15 Israel 18.6

One of these kids is doing his own thing.

[Cybran]

It's in Europe's interest to be able to defend itself, no?

This whole Trump and Russia fear mongering is just a ploy to surrender more power to the European Parliament and eventually to Germany. It's a sham.

[HumbleDuck]

The idea have always been for European countries to depend on US, so US can have leverage over EU, with trump plans to give EU up, they better increase their budget ( on average, and not UK in particular as they are doing OK) or seek shelter under Russians reign.

[Deleted]

This whole Trump and Russia fear mongering is just a ploy to surrender more power to the European Parliament and eventually to Germany. It's a sham.

The Fourth Reich incoming?

[Deleted]

Its probably about money, not bullshit written in article.

Military is massive industry. As any other industry, they would do anything to make money. So they make up imaginary threats and blow existing threats out of proportion. Works well for US military companies, so why not try it for UK companies?

[Tomyris]

Why would anyone think that a European country is supposed to fight Russia alone? All are small compared to US, Russia, China. Let's talk about an european army if you think the threat is real.

[Kalis]

Why would anyone think that a European country is supposed to fight Russia alone? All are small compared to US, Russia, China. Let's talk about an european army if you think the threat is real.

A European Army would be a logistical nightmare. It struggles on basics, such as what language would they communicate in and the fact that France and Britain have non-European territories they would need to protect, so they would still need national armies, or you could come across issues like Spanish troops are having to defend the Falkland Islands from Argentina.

[Elim Garak]

Every second person on this photo is Russian covert operative-hacker. Also UK is surrounded by Russian stealthy submariny thingies with nukies and Putin's finger is slowly moving to press the big red "FOR THE BREXIT" button.

[Zippoflames]

Without going into too much detail my work is directly involved in the UK military budget and it is a bit of a this time every year put out a story about lack of funds affair.
What we see happen is the budget for example is £1,000,000 for the year, If they don't spend every single penny the budget drops to £900,000 etc,
So say we are coming up for the end of year and we still have £200,000 left we would contact a supplier and quickly spend it so end of year we have no money left so please increase the budget look how skint we are.

[Deleted]

Wars are not fought conventionally between Nuclear nations. The threat from Russia isn't going to change having another few divisions of pissed up 20 somethings knocking about.

The British Army is essentially a branch of the US military (britian can't really do anything without them ever since the Suez canal incident really), that the US rolls its eyes at when they can't keep order in a single province of afganistan and have to call in the Yanks for help.

The Raf is still pretty outstanding. most armys ground troops from the west kind of suck, but air forces are on fucking point and kick ass.

[Dezerte]

We need to make it last at least 2 afternoons.