Trump's Victory Explained: The Loss of Faith in the Institutions

[THE Bigzoman]

Trump didnt win the majority. He only won because of a old voting system.

Why people voted for him? No idea. Those who voted him voted a racist bigot fascist into office, while it is not clear if americas democracy will survive his presidency.

If you ask who is responsible: The voters. Those who voted for trump. They helped to probably destroy what made america great: Its liberal democracy. Those who voted for trump followed right ideas, which never worked actually. Right ideas which have been disproven in european history.

Right wing populism only works with the uneducated. And it seems, america got many uneducated people. Only uneducated people are easy victims for populism working with fake news and propaganda.

It's a damn shame that someone who uses the term fascism to the degree that you do lacks a understanding of the circumstances that cultivate and enable it. If you're taking the fascist route, then it doesn't take much to draw historical parallels to your own country.You're German. Nobody should have to explain that to you

[Fugus]

Trump won because the independent voters rejected Hilary and the craziness of liberal identity politics.

It really is that simple.

Trump could only beat Hillary.

Actually anyone could have beat Clinton as this had proved. They were legitimizing each other. If you changed out anyone else on the Republican side at that point, they would have had better chance of beating Clinton than Trump as Trump still lost in the popular vote by record setting numbers and literally the only reason the Electoral College went for him was because 48 of them were winner take all which disenfranchises voters in large and small states to great degrees. If you changed out Clinton, Trump would have folded. There were both the 2 more hated candidates in US history.

And the independent Voters rejected her in the primaries to and voted overwhelmingly for Sanders any state they could vote in and Clinton had to actually cheat to beat him. And Sanders was projected to kill the entire board by bigger margins than they hoped Clinton could and he was closer to a liberal than Clinton.

Clinton did not go on liberal identity politics. She cheated the liberals and then antagonized them as did her supporters just like they did against Trump. Clinton lost because the liberals, progressives, and the moderates she relied on stayed home rather than vote for the candidate that screwed them out of their choice in the primaries.

Sorry, but equating Clinton with the liberals is incorrect as she actually cheated the liberals to get past the primaries and the more liberal candidate would have been an easy victory for the Democrats against Trump and the entire Republican party, he just wasn't what the establishment wanted.

[mage21]

In trying to put him down so that Clinton would get the vote, the media have turned Trump into such an all encompassing bogeyman (and his team now too) that even months after the election, people over the world over are clinging onto the belief of this fictional exaggerated hitler-like caricature. It doesn't help that the media-version of Obama is so perfect and awesome that in a lot of circles it's hard to make ANY criticism of Obama or his policies without being branded a racist.

So in comparison, everything Trump says has been taken out of context or blown up to ridiculous levels (even if what he said was already completely ridiculous). Every throw away line is held up as inevitable policy. People are terrifying themselves. There's little wonder; they think they've gone from black-super-Jesus to a Russian controlled Satan.

I think it was good for people to protest the proposed cuts to PP. I think it's a huge backwards step. It's more an indictment of the problems of having religion as such a large force of governance in the US still, rather than for the misogynistic reasons that people seem to believe. It's when you actually start to read all of the other banners that you start to see a greater picture of this insane terrifying visions that people seem to believe will happen.

You have gay people that seem genuinely fearful for their lives, as if they'll all be rounded up into camps. You have people genuinely believing Trump will be rounding up ALL migrants onto trains and throwing them out of the country (or worse). You have people genuinely believing he's going to take away womens rights to vote and step back gender equality 70 years. You have people that GENUINELY believe there's the chance he'll just start nuclear war with a random country because he's "hot headed". This shit's all utter nonsense but people won't listen to reason anymore. Eventually this fear is going to lead to things a lot more serious than peaceful protests.

It doesn't help that Trump is so free with his bombastic remarks that he gives those who wish to spin these yarns plenty of ammunition.

[Deleted]

You're German. Nobody should have to explain that to you

Even because i am german i can tell you we had politicians like trump in the past already. And we both know how it worked out.

The question is if the american political system is able to survive him. Everything depends on the question if the american people want democracy, or not. At the end no check and balance can stop a majority of people being tired of democracy.

Losing democracy is so easy. Trying to get it back is so hard.

[CostinR]

It doesn't help that Trump is so free with his bombastic remarks that he gives those who wish to spin these yarns plenty of ammunition.

In an era of deep rank partisanship there's no such thing as moderation.

Romney, an actual genuine moderate with a superb cabinet and transition team ready to go who cast himself as such, should have become president but he was branded a racist, a bigot, a nutjob and a crazy war monger even though he was NONE of these things. Even I believed it at the time and was relieved he lost back then and I deeply regret that. I learned my lesson after ISIS/Al-Nusra, Syria all became what they are today because Obama.

Trump did the following, whatever his personal private views are it's irrelevant. He's a reality star and salesman, he sold something to people: Anger.

When everyone's a racist, brand yourself a racist.
When everyone's a sexist, brand yourself a sexist.
When everyone's corrupt, brand yourself corrupt.
When everyone's a fat rich scumbag, brand yourself a fat rich scumbag.

Which one of these Trump actually is not the debate, I personally am disgusted by his treatment of his first two wives, but the point is this:

When you keep electing people painting their enemies as radicals like Obama, Bush and Clinton did, then don't be surprised if an actual radical wins.

[rogueMatthias]

In an era of deep rank partisanship there's no such thing as moderation.

Romney, an actual genuine moderate with a superb cabinet and transition team ready to go who cast himself as such, should have become president but he was branded a racist, a bigot, a nutjob and a crazy war monger even though he was NONE of these things. Even I believed it at the time and was relieved he lost back then and I deeply regret that. I learned my lesson after ISIS/Al-Nusra, Syria all became what they are today because Obama.

Trump did the following, whatever his personal private views are it's irrelevant. He's a reality star and salesman, he sold something to people: Anger.

When everyone's a racist, brand yourself a racist.
When everyone's a sexist, brand yourself a sexist.
When everyone's corrupt, brand yourself corrupt.
When everyone's a fat rich scumbag, brand yourself a fat rich scumbag.

I've talked about a similar thought before the actual election result. Everybody "knows" that politicians lie, are two-faced, flip-flop on policies, etc - So Trump made himself a bonafide satire of a politician. Telling lies to the point people aren't sure if you're even meant to belive him, and giving completely polar views on issues within 24 hours of eachother. It made him untouchable by the media, because pointing out when he was making a lie or had reversed his viewpoint was like pointing out when a comedian makes a joke. His supporters are already proverbially "in on the joke".

[CostinR]

It made him untouchable by the media, because pointing out when he was making a lie or had reversed his viewpoint was like pointing out when a comedian makes a joke. His supporters are already proverbially "in on the joke

Precisely. People always ask how can Trump supporters not see X, Y, Z....because we saw right through Trump. I look at Trump and I don't see the rethoric. I see Ivanka, Jared Kushner. I don't see the modern equivalent of the KKK, I see a rich New Yorker who was a lifelong democrat and danced in black churches to win Michigan.

A con man? That would assume he wasn't clearly transparent on what he was. I knew from the start having watched his Mexican speech that he was doing this: No one goes and gives a speech like that in front of the media WITHOUT seeking to get the headlines.

[Halicia]

Military said they wouldn't follow such orders.

Just because individuals in the military said they would disobey such orders, doesn't invalidate the orders.

If I choose to break the speed limit, that doesn't change the speed limit.

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It's a damn shame that someone who uses the term fascism to the degree that you do lacks a understanding of the circumstances that cultivate and enable it. If you're taking the fascist route, then it doesn't take much to draw historical parallels to your own country.You're German. Nobody should have to explain that to you

Mussolini was a fascist, yeah ? And Trump took credit for Mussolini quotes.

[Kallisto]

Actually anyone could have beat Clinton as this had proved. They were legitimizing each other. If you changed out anyone else on the Republican side at that point, they would have had better chance of beating Clinton than Trump as Trump still lost in the popular vote by record setting numbers and literally the only reason the Electoral College went for him was because 48 of them were winner take all which disenfranchises voters in large and small states to great degrees. If you changed out Clinton, Trump would have folded. There were both the 2 more hated candidates in US history.

And the independent Voters rejected her in the primaries to and voted overwhelmingly for Sanders any state they could vote in and Clinton had to actually cheat to beat him. And Sanders was projected to kill the entire board by bigger margins than they hoped Clinton could and he was closer to a liberal than Clinton.

Clinton did not go on liberal identity politics. She cheated the liberals and then antagonized them as did her supporters just like they did against Trump. Clinton lost because the liberals, progressives, and the moderates she relied on stayed home rather than vote for the candidate that screwed them out of their choice in the primaries.

Sorry, but equating Clinton with the liberals is incorrect as she actually cheated the liberals to get past the primaries and the more liberal candidate would have been an easy victory for the Democrats against Trump and the entire Republican party, he just wasn't what the establishment wanted.

Ok how did Clinton cheat.

I ask this again and I don't want any "Go read emails." I want proof that people were not allowed to vote for Sanders, had their sanders vote not count or going so far as to not have Sanders on the ballot.

That's cheating.

Not "But they preferred her and let her have some more media time or somehow she knew a question."

Actual blocking of Sanders votes please.

[CostinR]

Actual blocking of Sanders votes please.

Brooklyn

http://www.ibtimes.com/new-york-demo...-purge-2385367

Arizona

http://usuncut.com/politics/arizona-...fraud-primary/

[Raelbo]

Trump's Victory can be explained pretty easily. Hillary Clinton.

<snip>

They had a choice of winning with Sanders or losing with Clinton, they chose to lose.

In the end Hillary lost by a narrow margin. Which means that all she needed was to find a relatively small number of votes somewhere which she lost.

When I read comments like yours, it is pretty clear to me that Sanders and his supporters are responsible for losing that number of votes. Yes, true, there are likely other areas where she could have picked up some votes and the blame lies with those areas for those votes, but it doesn't change the fact that had Bernie supporters, and Bernie himself, decided to put their support behind Hillary, then she would have won. Which effectively means that Bernie and his supporters cost her and the Democrats, the election and are thus directly responsible for allowing Trump to win.

It's ridiculous the amount of airtime Bernie has gotten since his defeat in the primaries. I can taste the sour grapes across from across an entire ocean. It's like the Bernie supporters just couldn't let go, and like a bunch of petulant children, refused to vote Democrat if they couldn't get have their candidate. As a result the democrats went into the election divided. Well done Bernie! You ensured that Trump won by being the worst team player you could be. That alone tells me that Bernie is not a good leader, nor a desirable candidate for the presidency, because he allowed his own ambition and personal quest for victory to cause him to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Regardless of what people may think of Hillary, the Republicans at least had the good sense to recognise that infighting was counter-productive. What is telling to me is that in almost every thread on every social media platform asking the question "Hillary or Trump", there would always be a Bernie topic running through it. I never saw Republicans arguing for Cruz or Rubio etc.

Stop harping on about Bernie. Because honestly, it cost you guys the election.

[May90]

Everybody comes up with deep explanations of his victory... I think, the reason is much simpler: he just succeeded at appealing to the lowest common denominator, the main goal of populists. He happened to be more in touch with that denominator, than his opponent happened to be in touch with the rest of the population.

I could understand the "loss of faith in the institutions" argument, say, in the explanation of why Nazi party won in Germany: there the governmental policies had led the country to the brick of mass starvation. The US, however, is doing better than almost at any other point in history, so I doubt people care all that much about what uptight lasses and dudes argue about in the congress.

[Raelbo]

Everybody comes up with deep explanations of his victory... I think, the reason is much simpler: he just succeeded at appealing to the lowest common denominator, the main goal of populists. He happened to be more in touch with that denominator, than his opponent happened to be in touch with the rest of the population.

I can't argue with this. Which is for me the scariest thing about Trump winning. It demonstrates just how many people in the US actually share Trump's values (or rather the lack thereof).

It's why all the scandals against Trump had no effect. Those issues weren't issues for his supporters, and in some cases probably even raised their opinion of the guy.

[May90]

I can't argue with this. Which is for me the scariest thing about Trump winning. It demonstrates just how many people in the US actually share Trump's values (or rather the lack thereof).

It's why all the scandals against Trump had no effect. Those issues weren't issues for his supporters, and in some cases probably even raised their opinion of the guy.

I liked John Steward's opinion on this. He said that democracy is not a very natural state, that the vast majority of countries in the world are not democratic, and even the democratic ones experience a lot of relapses over time. It is a constant struggle, with victories and losses. In this context, Trump's support might not be all that scary, as long as it is temporal. Trump happened to be a very successful populist, but he only has a top of 8 years to spend in the White House, and it is unlikely that another similar populist will manage to do what he has done any time soon.

There is always a lot of people with traditionalist views in any society. What keeps a society from falling back to older, more barbaric, times is the progressive, thinking people offering a better alternative. But, again, it is a constant discussion, constant struggle, and sometimes barbarism temporarily wins. I don't think Trump's victory has revealed something new to America or the world, it just once again reminded us how strong certain human fears and insecurities are and how difficult it is to maintain an edge over them.

[Deleted]

Whole system needs to be changed. It was taken over by career politicians who only care about themselves.

the people are the ones to blame for the state of their government. voter apathy played a large role in trump's victory, and the same old people were voted in further down the line.

Its not like they had a choice. Choice between two terrible candidates is not a choice. Can't blame people for not wanting for vote when there is nobody to vote for.

In many proper democratic countries there are more than 2 parties, more than 2 candidates. President is chosen in not one vote, but multiple votes: first vote for all candidates, then vote among 2-3 winners of first vote. Different parties make coalitions. In the end they are way more representative of people that voted for them than US fake democracy.

[volkanik]

Trump won cause of the pussification of America with all thse SJWs, Feminists, Special Snowflakes needing their Safe Spaces. Most people that voted for Trump were probably alive during the 60s when the real Civil Rights era was going on, and don't want a repeat. All these SJWs think things are so bad. They should go back to the era when blacks couldn't even drink from the same fountain as whites. Don't worry all those protesters will have to get a job soon when Trump pulls their Food Stamps, and Welfarecare.

[Gestopft]

Here's how I explain a Trump victory: globalization + traditional Republicans voted for Trump en masse.

Globalization makes people afraid of losing their jobs and people afraid of losing their jobs are frantic for a solution and will follow anyone who says they can solve the problem

I thought some traditional Republicans, small business owners etc, would change sides and vote for Hillary because Trump was so awful, They didn't. I guess Hillary was just as bad in their minds so they went with the Republican.

Not only did Hillary scare away a lot of establishment/traditional Republicans that might've gone Democrat AND scare away millennial voters, I think you have to credit Mitch McConnell some for bringing many conservative voters home by keeping the Supreme Court vacancy open.

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Trump won cause of the pussification of America with all thse SJWs, Feminists, Special Snowflakes needing their Safe Spaces. Most people that voted for Trump were probably alive during the 60s when the real Civil Rights era was going on, and don't want a repeat. All these SJWs think things are so bad. They should go back to the era when blacks couldn't even drink from the same fountain as whites. Don't worry all those protesters will have to get a job soon when Trump pulls their Food Stamps, and Welfarecare.

And Trump's "American Carnage" isn't telling people to think that things are so bad?

Most Democratic politicians are not college students. Stop conflating the two. And there are plenty of us on the Left that think SJWs and Safe Spaces are ridiculous. Again- stop conflating the two.

[zorkuus]

Trump won cause of the pussification of America with all thse SJWs, Feminists, Special Snowflakes needing their Safe Spaces. Most people that voted for Trump were probably alive during the 60s when the real Civil Rights era was going on, and don't want a repeat. All these SJWs think things are so bad. They should go back to the era when blacks couldn't even drink from the same fountain as whites. Don't worry all those protesters will have to get a job soon when Trump pulls their Food Stamps, and Welfarecare.

"I hate SJW's. I know, I'll vote for the man who can't take criticism, that'll show 'em!"

[Wyrt]

Trump won cause of the pussification of America with all thse SJWs, Feminists, Special Snowflakes needing their Safe Spaces. Most people that voted for Trump were probably alive during the 60s when the real Civil Rights era was going on, and don't want a repeat. All these SJWs think things are so bad. They should go back to the era when blacks couldn't even drink from the same fountain as whites. Don't worry all those protesters will have to get a job soon when Trump pulls their Food Stamps, and Welfarecare.

"America never wins anymore!" "China invented global warming!" "The Mexicans are sending their rapists and criminals to steal our jobs!" "Muslims are terrorists and we should ban them!" "Violent crime is at an all time high" "Make America great again!"

Yeah, it's the big evil liberals that are making America seem worse than it is.

[Mormolyce]

Ironically, Republicans are both the cause and beneficiaries of cynicism about government.

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Trump won cause of the pussification of America with all thse SJWs, Feminists, Special Snowflakes needing their Safe Spaces. Most people that voted for Trump were probably alive during the 60s when the real Civil Rights era was going on, and don't want a repeat. All these SJWs think things are so bad. They should go back to the era when blacks couldn't even drink from the same fountain as whites. Don't worry all those protesters will have to get a job soon when Trump pulls their Food Stamps, and Welfarecare.

Pssssst.

Those durn elitists in universities aren't on food stamps and welfare.