I pity you who still PvP and/or complain about small-scale balance nonsense

[Deleted]

For the last couple of days I've been drowning on nostalgia and even being unsubbed I've been still taking some interest in what the community has to offer in terms of feedback here, and on the official PvP forums as well. And while some folks' opinions have been spot on, there are some people who still take some kind of enjoyment in PvP (apart from a minority that actually makes a living out of the game and is more or less forced to play it), keep paying the monthly fee, and even take their time to whine about small balance issue on the forums like "DH is OP plez nurf". And this has been absolutely mind-boggling for me.

The game, and most of all - its PvP aspect, is broken beyond repair. I've been enjoying the game for 10 years now. In Warlords of Draenor the spark was still kind-of there but now it's undoubtedly all lost. Game's not worth it's biannual expansion pack money anymore, let alone the monthly fee. Why are you still paying? Why are you still caring? What the hell do you still like in there? I honestly cannot understand, please enlighten me.

For me, literally everything I ever liked about PvP is gone:

1. World PvP. This is the thing that have probably given me more sweet memories through the years than most real-life activities have. I'd trade any night spent drinking in the pub, or rather doing mindless tiresome raids, for those precious moments when I was leveling my awesome DK back in WotLK Northrend when some max-level Horde douche came out of nowhere, killed me, and camped me for minutes. I would then log on my main feral druid and do the same to him as I not only outgeared him but greatly outskilled him as well. He would get tired and call a buddy or two to help him out. I would literally 1v3 them until they called their whole guild. Then I would call a friend or two of mine as well and we would fight like this for hours. When we finally prevail we would make a large group and raid some Horde city. And before I knew it it was time to get my quick bath and get ready for school. Guess what - this is gone, absolutely gone. People wouldn't even bother to touch you, let alone kill you as it's not rewarding in any way whatsoever, it's boring, and totally unbalanced. Even the most clueless person can literally oneshot you before you even spot him on your screen. Cause templates ain't active in PvP and their terrible deisgn make it so that there's no way for them to be unless you want to be farmed by mobs instead.

2. Dueling. For most people this isn't really a huge deal but the second most fun I've ever had in this game was dueling people. The skill required there, and the sheer room for improvement, have never been lacking behind arenas, in my humble opinion. Sure, there is no team synergy and coordination. Sure, you're dealing with just one guy instead of two/three of them. But knowing that you have no one to back neither you, or your enemy up makes things a lot different. While this has always been the most unbalanced aspect of PvP provided completely equal grounds for the two players, fortunately enough this can never be the case unless you somehow manage to duel noone but your very self. Through the different expansion packs there were often times when I would duel one particular person for hours on end. And while we eventually might have come to the point where his class beats mine 9 times out of 10, or the other way around, the whole process of getting there has always been nothing but extremely rewarding, both in terms of fun and expanding on your skill level, so to speak. The depth of class design allowed even for the most unbalanced of match-ups to have so many possible scenarios and therefore outcomes... And as I already said, the learning curve was enormously huge and rewarding. For me, the game started losing said depth back in MoP but at least this expansion offered something that I will forever cherish - balanced duels. Every class was so "bloated" that duels had never been so balanced. At one point I could beat anyone in 1v1 outside of Stormwind on my realm, with every single character/DPS spec out there. And that's when I knew all these years of duels had finally paid off. Like World PvP, due to both completely dumbed down class design and PvP templates - this is no longer possible. Even in WoD, duels weren't enjoyable anymore - it was a simple PvE DPS fest with most of the game-changing abilities and cooldowns being completely scrapped. Legion somehow managed to prune the fun even further. They could add a 1v1 wargame mode with little to no develpoment time required but even if they did so and managed to make 1v1s easily accessible with PvP templates on, it would still not be any fun whatsoever.

3. I mentioned the word "depth"... Well... it's gone. Somehow along the years it completely manage to vanish. Did I say vanish? Back in the day you could vanish spells with your rogue, remember? And that alone can't even scratch the surface. Every single spec had so much depth and that's what made WoW PvP shine. That's what made me play World of Warcraft PvP in the first place. Because if I wanted to play a game where you had literally 4 abilities with super simplistic design and very predictable outcome I'd rather play League of Legends. Duels, even arenas, were so much more enjoyable when people had options. Even the MoP CC and damage cds fest had a depth on its own. While I'd much rather have pre-MoP class depth where every single class had an enormously high skill cap (yes, even ret paladins) and something to strive to, MoP's plethora of cooldown buttons required some sort of skill as well, and while being a lot more mindless and mistake-prone it still felt fun and kept me playing on hours of end. Right now PvP is a PvE fest where large-scale AoE abilities are the pick of choice over single-target ones. And the only "option" you have is a single damage/healing cd for every single goddamn spec (there's no variety here even) that you can't even counter (like in WoD with another yet again boring defensive cd) because all the utility is gone. Playing PvP in this expansion honestly feels more PvE to me than PvE itself, cause at least mob AI has evolved over the years and provides some interesting mechanics while players have only 5 buttons at their disposal and as skilled as you are (or rather "have been", cause the game doesn't require skill any longer) you can literally do nothing about it.

4. Damage. Yes... even though the top threads everywhere (even here) are something along the lines of "DAMAGE TOO HIGH PLZ NURF", I personally think that there's not enough damage out there. Over the expansions since WotLK damage has been more and more sparse but that was compensated with how many abilities you could pump out over a given period of time. In WotLK you had 30k hp on average and a Ele Shaman's Lava Burst could hit for up to 12k or something. You could literally almost kill someone with a Lava Burst into instant Chain Lightning into Frost Shock or something. But it required a cooldown to be instant casted, had a slow cast, and mobility for eles was sparse. So you couldn't all that often get that off. In Cataclysm Lava Burst could hit for like 40k damage out of a 160k health pool which is obviously lower. But you could cast it a lot more often, you had the Earth Shock Maelstrom thing that hit for just as much, you had Lightning Bolts while moving, more mobility, etc.. In MoP Lava Burst hit for around 80k on a 560k health pool but it was spammable as f*ck and overall you could still have that great feeling of pumping out damage. In late-WoD it was kind of the same as in MoP though it felt clunky as hell as you literally had nothing else to do (cuz pruning <3) but that's a whole other topic. At least late-WoD gave us damage and that felt at least a little bit fun! In Legion... 3 mil health pools, Lava Burst does 150k - 200k damage at most. This is nothing short of laughable. Now you can say that "bruh, focus of eles is now shifted away from Lava Burst... they have Icefury now, Frost Shocks, Earth Shocks, instant Lightning Bolts, blah blah" but at the end of the day all the fucking abilities hit like wet noodles and slapping someone with a wet noodle over and over again isn't fun. SURE! The damage may feel OP as healers heal for even less, and as I already said - the game was so pruned that there's literally nothing left to counter said damage... But this isn't an excuse for every single class feeling completely underpowered. Until they buff the damage, buff healing accordingly and reintroduce some utility to cope with said damage (at this point I'm fine even with blatant % damage reduction cds) this game won't be ANY fun to me, I don't know about you. And crying about OP damage instead of missing utility and underpowered healing is beyond me.

5. Oneshots. Yes, you heard me right. I miss oneshots. The low amounts of damage (point 4), and the PvP stat templates have made it so making those sweet "crit montage" videos on youtube owning in battlegrounds impossible. I never wanted there to not be any gear gate! Owning people 1v5 in a BG, oneshotting every single one of them was the reward you got for investing so much time as to outskill and/or outgear said opponents. And sure, when you were behind on gear it was a bit frustrating but it lasted for only a couple of days until you got full honor gear. From there on it was easy as pie and you knew it was worth it. Now not only that PvP is more gated than ever due to honor talents and artifact power but once you join a BG, for example, even the biggest retard/newb can outdo you in everything and even 1v2 isn't remotely possible unless your enemies are literally (as bad as it may sound) retarded or braindead.

6. Soloqueue. Something that Blizzard has been refusing to do for years now. If the game is gonna be so much focused on arenas then make a solo-queue system. It will be more successful than LFR, at least, for sure. Most of us have grown up into working married men and when all of your friends quit the game for obvious reasons (life, and mostly because the game is plain arse) finding someone to queue with is the most frustrating thing ever. Not to mention that participation is as low as the ground. The game is dumbed down enough so that you don't require voice comm anyway, so please - for the sake of someone's nostalgic 1-hour PvP fix - at least add this feature to the game. It will be highly appreciated.

[Sliske]

Nice blog post.

Meanwhile i'm having the most fun i've had pvping since late Cata on my hpala / ret pala


1. World PVP - Go to world quest spots and gank people if you want to be a pest

2. Dueling - Dueling is still a thing, and its still mostly noobs dueling. You can go be with the other new players dueling if you want

3. Depth - Agreed here. Skill cap has went down, but also the tedium has went down. There isn't bullshit like jumping charges anymore. A worthwhile trade off? Subjective, imo. In some cases yes, in some others, no.

4. Damage - Kind of the same as the one below, but if you want to go for ridiculous burst specs, you still can. It just requires a specific comp, as always, or just requires you to use cooldowns, as always. A good example is frost mage right now, or arcane mage, or assasination rogue, or ret pala, or arms war, or fury war.. shit, most specs can delete people in under 3 seconds, which leads into 5.

5. OneShots - This is the best one. For the past 3-4 months PVPers have moaned non stop (and rightfully so) that damage is so insanely huge right now, that there is no counter play to certain comps. You just run at each other with insane damage (TSG wotlk style) until one of you win. The reason for all the latest damage nerfs and hp buffs is the collective whining of most pvpers finally pierced the thick skull of Holinka. I agree with you on gear though. Gear was unfortunately yet another "no right answer" situation. I prefer to gear my characters in Dragon Soul and ICC, so i can go into arena and battlegrounds and curb stomp people. Its fun, a lot of fun. But I can see why its an issue. People that want to pvp don't want to raid. Blizzard made a choice on an issue that no one will be pleased on.

Did they make the right choice? Subjective - in my opinion, no. My interest in pve slowly declined after 5.0, to the point that in 7.1.5 i haven't done anything but LFR.

6. 1v1 arenas would only work if it was spec vs spec. At some point that gets boring. I used to duel a lot when I was getting used to the game, to the point that I could beat gearcapped warriors on my freshly dinged hunter. Was this skill? Yeah, i guess. But examine it further - imagine if we had equal gear. That warrior wouldn't stand a chance unless the hunter is bad. Is it fun to beat people purely because they are bad? No, of course it isn't.

So right off the bat we can't just have it any spec vs any spec. Likewise, healers can't compete or they'd be op. (Good luck beating my avenging crusader hpala 1v1, on any class or spec) nor can tanks for similar reasons.

So again, it would be same spec 1v1. Is this fun? Eh, I can't think of anything more boring than 1v1 fury warrior. You're literally just hacking at each other until one of you gets more crits than the other. Of course some 1v1s would be fun. 1v1 mage, 1v1 ww monk for example but is this worth development time? What're the rewards? We already have 2k 2v2 watering down the elite gear, are we going to add it to 1v1 too?

And this all assumes people even want 1v1 arenas. I think you're vastly overestimating just how many people want 1v1 arenas.

[FrantACs]

First you complain, that you get one shot and then that there is not enough damage?

Nice post although there are things I disagree with.

[Deleted]

First you complain, that you get one shot and then that there is not enough damage?

Nice post although there are things I disagree with.

No, I said I miss oneshots. I miss these kind of stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApLg47hEezc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhCceNFkdEk&t=291s

Now that's your best caster spec of 7.1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0bu45wo3Bg

Throwing noodles at everyone. Kills people only cause of underpowered healing and lack of utility. Laughable.

[Deleted]

Out of the many, many things wrong with Legion pvp, you start with wpvp and duels? You literally picked pretty much the most mundane of things to rant about

[Deleted]

Out of the many, many things wrong with Legion pvp, you start with wpvp and duels? You literally picked pretty much the most mundane of things to rant about

The worst thing about legion is the awful class design and I touch it in every single point I've made. But having played since TBC, World PvP has always been a lot more important and fun for me than 3v3 arena (cause 2v2 - ever since you couldn't win a game above 2,2k MMR as double DPS - and the 5v5 nonsense are long dead, unfortunately), sorry.

[tikcol]

The great irony here is that stat templates were created in order to help with balance issues.

AHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

Balance hasn't been so bloody unbalanced since ever.

[Laronda]

Even the most clueless person can literally oneshot you before you even spot him on your screen.

5. Oneshots. Yes, you heard me right. I miss oneshots.

OK mate.

Although I mostly disagree with what you've wrote, I definitely appreciate how you've gone down the subjective route unlike most people on this forum. Was a good read.

[Deleted]

The great irony here is that stat templates were created in order to help with balance issues.

AHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

Balance hasn't been so bloody unbalanced since ever.

Yes, ever since the announcement of Legion I bloody knew that those templates would be BAD for the game. The only upside I saw in them was the promise of better balance (at least for 3v3 arena). And while I've always favored fun over balance, the game is not only less fun than ever but less balanced than ever as well. Seems like they literally don't know what they're doing anymore, just throwing random number buffs/nerfs over the place (and massive ones at that too). But as I said - balance is of little to no importance when there are much bigger issues at stake and the game's not even F U N! Anyhow, 7.1 made Subtlety unplayable, 7.1.5's recent hotfixed made Destruction warlocks unplayable. Oh wait, they now have an OP AoE PvE spec revolving around literally a single spell - Incinerate - throw noodles at the whole team with no regards to CC and wait until you wear down their even more pathetic healer. Great gameplay.

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OK mate.

Although I mostly disagree with what you've wrote, I definitely appreciate how you've gone down the subjective route unlike most people on this forum. Was a good read.

First thing is in a World PvP scenario. You can be the most geared badass out there, an arcane mage pops out of invis with a Mark of Alluneth, into an instant Arcane Blast and you're dead before he even gets to his second instant Arcane Blast, Supernova, or Arcane Barrage. This is over the top provided that neither your gear matters, nor your skill cause you can in no way counter that insanity. In instanced PvP damage is so much lower that you hit like a wet noodle and while World PvP damage is over the top and you can literally 1v100 provided you appear unnoticed in instanced PvP you can't even 1v2. That's what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQ8daHpS2Y

Look at the clips in my previous post and compare them to this nonsense.

In previous expansions that could never happen to me, in neither instanced or world PvP. I always had the tools to outplay even the biggest of bursts provided I had gear and a working brain. I could also get a fully geared Blood DK in WotLK, and even completely unviable in arena, 1v5 5 idiots in seconds due to them not knowing that if they simply dispelled my dots and Mark of Blood off of them they reduce my damage by 30% and cut off almost all of my selfheals, and maybe also by the fact that I clearly outgear them (something that is now not possible due to templates).

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Nice blog post.

Meanwhile i'm having the most fun i've had pvping since late Cata on my hpala / ret pala


1. World PVP - Go to world quest spots and gank people if you want to be a pest

2. Dueling - Dueling is still a thing, and its still mostly noobs dueling. You can go be with the other new players dueling if you want

3. Depth - Agreed here. Skill cap has went down, but also the tedium has went down. There isn't bullshit like jumping charges anymore. A worthwhile trade off? Subjective, imo. In some cases yes, in some others, no.

4. Damage - Kind of the same as the one below, but if you want to go for ridiculous burst specs, you still can. It just requires a specific comp, as always, or just requires you to use cooldowns, as always. A good example is frost mage right now, or arcane mage, or assasination rogue, or ret pala, or arms war, or fury war.. shit, most specs can delete people in under 3 seconds, which leads into 5.

5. OneShots - This is the best one. For the past 3-4 months PVPers have moaned non stop (and rightfully so) that damage is so insanely huge right now, that there is no counter play to certain comps. You just run at each other with insane damage (TSG wotlk style) until one of you win. The reason for all the latest damage nerfs and hp buffs is the collective whining of most pvpers finally pierced the thick skull of Holinka. I agree with you on gear though. Gear was unfortunately yet another "no right answer" situation. I prefer to gear my characters in Dragon Soul and ICC, so i can go into arena and battlegrounds and curb stomp people. Its fun, a lot of fun. But I can see why its an issue. People that want to pvp don't want to raid. Blizzard made a choice on an issue that no one will be pleased on.

Did they make the right choice? Subjective - in my opinion, no. My interest in pve slowly declined after 5.0, to the point that in 7.1.5 i haven't done anything but LFR.

6. 1v1 arenas would only work if it was spec vs spec. At some point that gets boring. I used to duel a lot when I was getting used to the game, to the point that I could beat gearcapped warriors on my freshly dinged hunter. Was this skill? Yeah, i guess. But examine it further - imagine if we had equal gear. That warrior wouldn't stand a chance unless the hunter is bad. Is it fun to beat people purely because they are bad? No, of course it isn't.

So right off the bat we can't just have it any spec vs any spec. Likewise, healers can't compete or they'd be op. (Good luck beating my avenging crusader hpala 1v1, on any class or spec) nor can tanks for similar reasons.

So again, it would be same spec 1v1. Is this fun? Eh, I can't think of anything more boring than 1v1 fury warrior. You're literally just hacking at each other until one of you gets more crits than the other. Of course some 1v1s would be fun. 1v1 mage, 1v1 ww monk for example but is this worth development time? What're the rewards? We already have 2k 2v2 watering down the elite gear, are we going to add it to 1v1 too?

And this all assumes people even want 1v1 arenas. I think you're vastly overestimating just how many people want 1v1 arenas.

1. I want World PvP that requires skill and makes me feel good when I 1v4. I don't want this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQ8daHpS2Y

2. No dueling ins't a thing because it's yet again this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQ8daHpS2Y . I'd rather kill level 7 mobs in Elwynn Forest then duel there. If you think dueling is for noobs I invite you to a TBC/WotLK/Cata/MoP private PvP server and beat me. Any spec vs spec combination you want.

3. Some things were fixed, yes, but that has nothing to do with depth. Ironically enough, the spec with the most depth, IMHO, in WoD - WW Monk, had it all because of the Chi Torpedo jump bug.

4. No you can't. If I go Destruction warlock I hit for 400k Chaos Bolts on 3 million HP target. If I go Ele I hit for 200k Lava Bursts on 3 million HP target. Even if I go on my ret I pop wings and hit 350k Templar's Verdicts on 3 million HP people. In MoP when I popped wings + Holy Avenger I hit for a 150k Hammer of Wrath into a 150k Templar's Verdict, into a 80k Judgement, into another 150k Templar's Verdict.. on a 560k health pool. So sorry but no thanks. The fact that there is no utility left in the game to COUNTER the pathetic damage and that if someone hits for 200k, healers heal for even less is not of my concern. I want ping-pong healthpools gameplay like it's ALWAYS been where my heart is pumping and every second of it is an enjoyment.

5. I'll answer on this as I answer on the previous point.

6. I could care less about 1v1 arena at this point. First they up their class design and bring back character depth, then they remove this stat template nonsense and we can talk about this. I was talking about SOLOqueue, as in "queue for 3s without having to search for partners" a.k.a skirmish matches but with matchmaking and actual rewards.

[Deleted]

World pvp is fun on a character with 2 legendaries and full raid/M+ gear

When I look at someone on my boomkin they simply blow up.

[Deleted]

World pvp is fun on a character with 2 legendaries and full raid/M+ gear

When I look at someone on my boomkin they simply blow up.

Well.. it sure as hell is "fun" in a certain way. But back in the day blowing multiple people up made you feel good about yourself. It felt as some sort of an accomplisment, even if it was mainly because you outgeared them. The fact that you could 1v5 with gear, yet be able to beat most people 1v1 on a rogue/frost mage with a weapon from an earlier expansion and barely any gear on whatsoever meant a lot. You knew you killed them because you were better than them.

Right now, as you said, you simply look at someone and they blow up. For a fact, they might've faced the other way and don't even realize how they died. Even if you didn't have any legendaries and sub-880 ilvl gear you could still oneshot anyone with a Full Moon crit.

On the other end of the spectrum - in instanced PvP (arenas) balance druids tickle everyone to death - hardly any high damage numbers. They're considered top-tear kind of right now, especially for BGs, simply because they have such a nice AoE PvE rotation with dots, Starfall and the artifact ability and the pathetic healers can't outheal it. Kind of reminds me of those youtube series back in the day "Murder with a spoon" or whatever it was called. The fact that someone doesn't have the tools to react accordingly to your damage doesn't make your damage "over the top", it just makes their tools and healing pathetic in comparison, nothing more.

[Appelgren]

World pvp is fun on a character with 2 legendaries and full raid/M+ gear

When I look at someone on my boomkin they simply blow up.

As fun as melting ants with a magnifying glass perhaps...

[Trematode]

Blowing up someone when you simply outgear them is no fun. Back in the LK days I remember it took couple days before you got enough gear for resilience so you don't get one or two shotted from Rets, Rogues and Destro Locks. That wasn't fun at all.

Right now you can get into BG's or arena and survive much longer (Skill > gear).

No offense but that's the way it should be. Most of the specs today are much more balanced, just look at how many different specs are in high lvl arenas.

[Deleted]

As fun as melting ants with a magnifying glass perhaps...

Good comparison
Certainly feels like I am melting ants sometimes.

But yes, it is completely nuts right now. I don't think I experienced this much of a difference in world pvp since... the vanilla years?

[Deleted]

Blowing up someone when you simply outgear them is no fun. Back in the LK days I remember it took couple days before you got enough gear for resilience so you don't get one or two shotted from Rets, Rogues and Destro Locks. That wasn't fun at all.

It's not fun being blown up but sure as hell was fun blowing others up. For that very reason getting gear felt rewarding. Nowadays, literally nothing feels rewarding for me in this game anymore.

Moreover, my emphasis in this thread has always been about blowing people up because of skill, not gear. As in my example in my previous post - Blood DK wasn't nearly as viable in arena as it had too many counters. But out in the open - if someone didn't dispel your dots you literally oneshot him the moment you came close to him.. if someone didn't dispel your Mark of Blood - you simply don't die cause of self-heals. You had the tools to outsmart people and damage was high enough to punish them for their mistakes fast enough. I've played this game for 10+ years actively in PvP. Yet in Legion I literally can't 1v2 two bots. Because I lack tools. Because the skill cap between a "pro" and a bot is negligible.

Right now you can get into BG's or arena and survive much longer (Skill > gear).

No, right now you can get into a BG/arena, do at your worst and hardly be punished for it. You are no longer gated by gear, but grinding honor gear for a day and a half is one thing, grinding artifact power and honor for weeks just so you can have access to your abilities is another - and is definitely not fun.

No offense but that's the way it should be. Most of the specs today are much more balanced, just look at how many different specs are in high lvl arenas.

That argument was valid in MoP as well. Even more specs were viable at high level than now. It doesn't matter, though. Cause the gameplay is dogshit.

- - - Updated - - -

But yes, it is completely nuts right now. I don't think I experienced this much of a difference in world pvp since... the vanilla years?

In Vanilla you blew people up the same way but melees were immobile and needed time to get to you, and casters had huge cast times on their high damage abilities.

This still offered some kind of counterplay. Not to mention that PvP revolved almost entirely around gadgets in the form of items, consumables, etc. Now there's absolutely no counter. Whoever clicks their button first wins. Imagine a cowboy pistol duel but with no chance to miss and your bullet spreading out to 50 people at a time instead of one.

[Deleted]

In Vanilla you blew people up the same way but melees were immobile and needed time to get to you, and casters had huge cast times on their high damage abilities.

I vaguely remember getting one shotted by warlocks and mages in Tier gear on my warrior back in those days.
It was rare (because BiS gear was rare) but when you faced these raid geared people you had no chance

[stickyjam]

The mad thing about this post is ele is actually one of the top tier PVP casters.

ele is probably the best caster for killing in a couple of globals.

In the GCD tournament one of the healers got swapped and solod by an Ele...

[ArmoredDragoon]

World pvp is fun on a character with 2 legendaries and full raid/M+ gear

When I look at someone on my boomkin they simply blow up.

That's probably the reason I'll never return to WoW. I loved world PVP above all else, but I just don't have the time to raid anymore. Unless the logistics of raiding are different these days, I remember having to spend a minimum of 12 hours a week every week (and that was in a casual guild) to be able to do that. After wrath, I lost interest in doing anything other than finding 1-2 other people to do arena with to get gear (I also avoided RBGs for this reason.)

Although I quit early in Cata, I did play late MoP and it kind of ruined wow for me because of the damage it did to world pvp, WoD made it even worse because of garrisons. After reading about how the template and pvp talents impacted world pvp, I decided I won't even bother with legion; assuming I return to wow ever, legion will be the one expansion that I never played even for a minute.

[Deleted]

The mad thing about this post is ele is actually one of the top tier PVP casters.

ele is probably the best caster for killing in a couple of globals.

In the GCD tournament one of the healers got swapped and solod by an Ele...

WotLK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IxI_pZOns4
Legion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0bu45wo3Bg

Tell me more about those globals, please.

Edit: I could care less that Ele is the least pathetic of all right now. It's still pathetic :P

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I vaguely remember getting one shotted by warlocks and mages in Tier gear on my warrior back in those days.
It was rare (because BiS gear was rare) but when you faced these raid geared people you had no chance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGBnjELkgok

Couldn't warriors do the same provided they had gear, though? I'm not trying to argue here. I was 10 years old when Vanilla released and my memories are not nearly as vague, nor did I play it at any real-conscious level. It's just that watching those clips after so long it seems like even then World PvP was, if not greatly then at least a little bit, more reasonable than now. And hell.. it was the game's very first iteration and it wasn't even made for PvP back then. There's literally no excuse that the game is in such a condition right now - none whatsoever. Even if it went the full-on freemium model it wouldn't be worth the time anymore, let alone paying for it on a monthly basis.

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGBnjELkgok

Couldn't warriors do the same provided they had gear, though? I'm not trying to argue here. I was 10 years old when Vanilla released and my memories are not nearly as vague, nor did I play it at any real-conscious level. It's just that watching those clips after so long it seems like even then World PvP was, if not greatly then at least a little bit, more reasonable than now. And hell.. it was the game's very first iteration and it wasn't even made for PvP back then. There's literally no excuse that the game is in such a condition right now - none whatsoever. Even if it went the full-on freemium model it wouldn't be worth the time anymore, let alone paying for it on a monthly basis.

I think most dps classes (not ret paladin lol) could potentially oneshot someone if they had the right gear/trinkets.

A warrior wouldn't reach a warlock or mage in time though, unless they didnt notice him.