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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    I mean it's sort of China causing the problems really
    Yeah, look at the world wide spread of Chinese military bases, and the number of countries they have invaded in the last 50 years.

    I mean - look, 6 tiny islands in the South China sea ...

    Seriously folks - be rational

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    If we actually go to war with China, I think you'll be singing a very different tune.

    OT: This is so stupid. We have no legal right to bar China, much less drag ourselves into a war over it. This kind of tone says that the United States wants to engage militarily with other major powers around the world, right after we spent nearly 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    How are we supposed to cut our budget, President Trump? That's right, not by reducing military expenditures, but let's cut social services here at home while ramping up spending so we can build more of a naval presence so we can start a war with China over something we don't get to decide.
    The US wouldn't be able to win that war as Trump lacks the support of the people. You can't win a war without the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yeah, look at the world wide spread of Chinese military bases, and the number of countries they have invaded in the last 50 years.

    I mean - look, 6 tiny islands in the South China sea ...

    Seriously folks - be rational

    Yeah, the US is in no position to judge or play at having higher morals.

  3. #43
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    The US wouldn't be able to win that war as Trump lacks the support of the people. You can't win a war without the people.
    That's not exactly a comfort, even if you're right. I wouldn't want to be on the losing side.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    That's not exactly a comfort, even if you're right. I wouldn't want to be on the losing side.
    Oh, no, it'd be awful. Starting a war with China and having full scale revolts across the nation would break the country.

    Plus, most of our allies wouldn't follow us into a war with China, they aren't morons.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2017-01-24 at 03:32 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    That's not exactly a comfort, even if you're right. I wouldn't want to be on the losing side.
    Trump wants to involve nukes - there is no winning side Matter of fact - the planet doesn't have sides. So it would be more like being on the losing surface.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Plus, most of our allies wouldn't follow us into a war with China, they aren't morons.
    Australia is already starting to look at breaking from the US due to recent Trump decisions ... we are in a huge dilemma here. We require the US for security and China for money.

    Trump is starting to tear Australia in half, and he has only just started.

    We didn't get to vote for or against him, but as with much of the world - we will be some of the early victims.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
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  6. #46
    Deleted
    This is literally what the Navy is built for. An intimidating, all powerful global force that forces everywhere to play nice/follow the law. We cannot allow China to militarize and take over a trade zone with millions of dollars.

    China is not going to go to war with the United States over this. Why? Because the Chinese navy would get obliterated by our Navy. The navy is determent to this kind of shit. If we don't use it, we are simply appeasing the Chinese. And if we do that, one day, they're going to cross a red line and we will most certainly go to war. The difference is China would be much more powerful in that war if we allowed them to get away with this shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    If only we had a competent president to guide us through this conflict.

    Edit: Also, while Trump isn't the right person to guide us through this, I do think this conflict is necessary. We can't just let them build islands and belligerently throw their weight around when they're trying to control international waters.
    Hillary would have continued Obama's policy of strong words with no action.

    Inaction is the absolute worst thing to do in this situation.

  7. #47
    Seems at this point pretty clear that Trump's problem wasn't american imperialism, it was american liberal imperialism.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Why? Because the Chinese navy would get obliterated by our Navy.
    Yeah - because you won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (two backwards 10th century countries) so decisively with your 'gizmos'.

    When will people EVER learn, that you don't and can't win wars with gizmos ...it just doesn't work.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
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  9. #49
    The potential for Trump to get a lot of people killed is pretty high. He doesn't have very good people skills.
    "Punching things is cool and stuff. Pow bam bam bam Pow. O yah... God I'm eloquent." -Dalai Lama

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Inaction is the absolute worst thing to do in this situation.
    You must be pretty young, but fun fact - 70 years of inaction post WWII is what kept the world from destruction.

    When you have weapons that can literally destroy the world - inaction as you call it is what keeps humanity from ending.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
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  11. #51
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Meanwhile at the Kremlin

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yeah - because you won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (two backwards 10th century countries) so decisively with your 'gizmos'.
    In terms of actual confrontation? Yes. Insurgency isn't really relevant to naval battles.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    If we actually go to war with China, I think you'll be singing a very different tune.

    OT: This is so stupid. We have no legal right to bar China, much less drag ourselves into a war over it. This kind of tone says that the United States wants to engage militarily with other major powers around the world, right after we spent nearly 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    How are we supposed to cut our budget, President Trump? That's right, not by reducing military expenditures, but let's cut social services here at home while ramping up spending so we can build more of a naval presence so we can start a war with China over something we don't get to decide.



    I don't remember him threatening to stop them from building there. I know he talked about how they shouldn't be allowed, and I know he talked about the UN getting involved, but not a fairly brazen "fuck you" to China.
    America doesn't have the right to enforce a free and open sea? Are you kidding me? Lmao, again, this is the reason why we have the worlds strongest/largest Navy, pal. This is to protect free trade throughout the worlds oceans. We cannot, and will not back down.

    This is not some radical ideology, either. This is how our foreign policy is supposed to work. Inaction is the wrong way to go about us. Inaction is what has caused America's standing to be weakened throughout the world over the last eight years.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    In terms of actual confrontation? Yes. Insurgency isn't really relevant to naval battles.
    You are wanting to start a world war ... what happens in the tiny area of the South China Sea will be almost totally irrelevant to the outcome.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
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    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  15. #55
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't remember him threatening to stop them from building there. I know he talked about how they shouldn't be allowed, and I know he talked about the UN getting involved, but not a fairly brazen "fuck you" to China.
    There were a few fly overs and ships hovering around the area as a way to delegitimize and territorial claims from China

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    In terms of actual confrontation? Yes. Insurgency isn't really relevant to naval battles.
    If there was a war we would need to actually fight. South Korea and Japan would get fucked in the ass because of us if we didn't.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You are wanting to start a world war ... what happens in the tiny area of the South China Sea will be almost totally irrelevant to the outcome.
    I'm not wanting to start shit, I'm just fully aware of the military differences between a naval battle with China and putting down local insurgents in Norther Iraq.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    America doesn't have the right to enforce a free and open sea?
    America doesn't have the right to unilaterally start wars... up until this point diplomacy kept differing sides in a compromise. For decades, Taiwan has been a country and not a country keeping everyone content - it stops a war.

    Decades have seen the South China Sea in a balance of two demands.

    China is currently doing no more or less than what the US would do in similar circumstances.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    America doesn't have the right to enforce a free and open sea? Are you kidding me? Lmao, again, this is the reason why we have the worlds strongest/largest Navy, pal. This is to protect free trade throughout the worlds oceans. We cannot, and will not back down.

    This is not some radical ideology, either. This is how our foreign policy is supposed to work. Inaction is the wrong way to go about us. Inaction is what has caused America's standing to be weakened throughout the world over the last eight years.
    Suddenly Trumpkins are pro-free trade. Interesting.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You must be pretty young, but fun fact - 70 years of inaction post WWII is what kept the world from destruction.

    When you have weapons that can literally destroy the world - inaction as you call it is what keeps humanity from ending.
    Yeah, no. First of all, the "Cold War" was full of America using it's Navy to advance it's interests and a free and open sea. These policies existed during the cold war.

    And no, China is not going to start thermal nuclear war over this.

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