What a sad, sad state

[Alvito]

except it is allways a side thing, PVE has allways been the priority, and really?
pvp balance has "allmost never been as fucked up"

guess you dident play vanilla or bc :P

so as a mage you could interupt a warlock, and then they died, cause they couldent cast ANYTHING for 8 seconds... and well yep
mages could also use ice block every like 15 seconds, so you would ice block to dodge single spells

rogues could stun you for 8 seconds and easily kill you within that time and nothing you could do except get ready to respawn

warlocks if not taken care of could easily 1 shot you with a shadowbolt crit

warriors could charge in and 2 crit shot you well taking NO damage

hunters could infinitely kite you, staying out of your range just attacking you

15 second iceblock huh. Normally you try a bit harder with your make believe.

[FelPlague]

15 second iceblock huh. Normally you try a bit harder with your make believe.

nah let me go find it (might have been a set bonus in vanilla)
sorry forgot it was coldsnap, allowed you to reset your ice block cooldown

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=12472

so you could ice block, then cold snap and ice block again

[Schattenlied]

just because they are hosting tournoments doesent mean it isnt a side thing....

again even in bc it wasent better then this
back in bc you faced a warlock? lol get fucked

I faced plenty of warlocks in BC, never had much trouble with them.

nah let me go find it (might have been a set bonus in vanilla)

It was a 5 min CD and cold snap (a 10 min CD) reset the CD on Ice Block, it was never anywhere near 15s.

[FelPlague]

I faced plenty of warlocks in BC, never had much trouble with them.




It was a 5 min CD and cold snap (a 10 min CD) reset the CD on Ice Block, it was never anywhere near 15s.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

- - - Updated - - -

nah let me go find it (might have been a set bonus in vanilla)
sorry forgot it was coldsnap, allowed you to reset your ice block cooldown

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=12472

so you could ice block, then cold snap and ice block again

as i was saying?

[Caolela]

wow is a game made for pve with pvp being a side thing
if you want real pvp you should allways play a game like mobas or overwatch where pvp is the main standpoint

a game based around something will allways be better at it then something with that as a "side thing"

OK Fel, we can stop with the bullshit excuses you and a few other fanboys constantly make for Blizz. Millions of people play (or used to play) PvP, and if something is in the game then it should be done right. Cap't Obvious: there is no excuse when they're one of the biggest game companies, with hundreds of millions of dollars and 12 years of XP and data at their disposal. It's that simple.

WoW PvP has been on a steady downhill track since at least WoD and it's not by accident or lack of attention from devs.

They've known exactly what they've been doing and it's fully intentional, as dozens of threads here have shown over the past year or so. The main thing they fucked up on in Legion is they didn't figure to lose so many PvP'ers from the terrible changes to PvP. They thought they could make it such a boring, monotonous grind and playstyle (to attract more noobs and increase sub times), and everyone would just put up with it but instead long-time players said fuck it. That's why the ladder collapsed and they had the arena titles fiasco.

"PvP is just a mini-game!1!" doesn't cut it, and never has.

[FelPlague]

OK Fel, we can stop with the bullshit excuses you and a few other fanboys constantly make for Blizz. Millions of people play (or used to play) PvP, and if something is in the game then it should be done right. Cap't Obvious: there is no excuse when they're one of the biggest game companies, with hundreds of millions of dollars and 12 years of XP and data at their disposal. It's that simple.

WoW PvP has been on a steady downhill track since at least WoD and it's not by accident or lack of attention from devs.

They've known exactly what they've been doing and it's fully intentional, as dozens of threads here have shown over the past year or so. The main thing they fucked up on in Legion is they didn't figure to lose so many PvP'ers from the terrible changes to PvP. They thought they could make it such a boring, monotonous grind and playstyle (to attract more noobs and increase sub times), and everyone would just put up with it but instead long-time players said fuck it. That's why the ladder collapsed and they had the arena titles fiasco.

"PvP is just a mini-game!1!" doesn't cut it, and never has.

im in no way saying pvp isnt fucking broke
what im saying is though if you want real pvp, play a fucking pvp game, not a pve game with pvp in it

[Schattenlied]

im in no way saying pvp isnt fucking broke
what im saying is though if you want real pvp, play a fucking pvp game, not a pve game with pvp in it

There is no reason we shouldn't be able to expect a multi billion dollar AAA studio to be able to properly balance PvP in their "PvE game".

Telling us to go play a PvP game "like MOBAs or Overwatch" is beyond fucking stupid, they are not RPGs, they don't play like WoW in any way, You just told MMORPG players to go play an FPS to get their PvP, do you not realize how absurd of a suggestion that is? Get the hell out of here with your fucked up logic.

[FelPlague]

There is no reason we shouldn't be able to expect a multi billion dollar AAA studio to be able to properly balance PvP in their "PvE game".

Telling us to go play a PvP game "like MOBAs or Overwatch" is beyond fucking stupid, they are not RPGs, they don't play like WoW in any way, You just told MMORPG players to go play an FPS to get their PvP, do you not realize how absurd of a suggestion that is? Get the hell out of here with your fucked up logic.

"There is no reason we shouldn't be able to expect a multi billion dollar AAA studio to be able to properly balance PvP in their "PvE game"
please tell me ANY GAME that is perfectly balanced that has 36+ charecters

i was talking to the op
if you play a game just for pvp, playing wow for pvp may not be what you should be doing, for example guild wars focuses on pvp first, then pve second, overwatch focuses on pvp first, then pve second, mobas focus pvp first, pve second, but look at patches, wow puts pve first, it puts pve before pvp
when i feel in a pvp mood, i go play hots, dota, or league depending what friends are on, or maybe even overwatch if im feeling it today

[Schattenlied]

"There is no reason we shouldn't be able to expect a multi billion dollar AAA studio to be able to properly balance PvP in their "PvE game"
please tell me ANY GAME that is perfectly balanced that has 36+ charecters

Perfect? Who the fuck ever uttered the word perfect? It doesn't need to be perfect, it does however need to not be a complete fucking trainwreck.

[Keydiam]

I always have to ask when something like this comes up: If WoW is really a Pve-Game why the hell is PvP in it? Disable it, allow queuing up with the Horde/Alliance (lower time, more players for your raid) and there we go. Throw in some BGs for the lulz but don't support them and you don't have to waste anymore time/resources etc on it.

[Fkiolaris]

It's the first time I literally stopped pvping entirely and I've been playing since TBC. From a casual pvper's POW there is fuck all to enjoy. No descent reward systems, the classes/specs being the most un-fun they've ever been, the biggest power gap ever, this is just complete and utter shite.

[Caolela]

im in no way saying pvp isnt fucking broke
what im saying is though if you want real pvp, play a fucking pvp game, not a pve game with pvp in it

Nope. You're going back to the lame excuse again. PvP was much better before Legion and WoD, so that crap holds no water. There would have been no ladders, no rankings, no tourneys, no PvP gear, no separate stats like PvP Resil and Power, or any of the rest.

Kagthul had some stats in a thread one time that I won't bother to dig up, that showed something like 40% of players played or had played PvP on a regular basis, and/or had obtained their Conquest limit, various titles, etc. Don't quote me on it but it was a substantial number, which clearly showed that PvP is not just a "mini-game".

So let's stop with the bullshit and get real. Blizz is in this for one thing only: more profit. The problem is the arrogant bastards got too fucking greedy with Legion and shot themselves in the foot.

[Kazuchika]

PvP has always been my favorite part of wow, however since Legion launched I've grown to hate it. Whenever i get the urge to pvp i just play other games. PvP seems to be in a godawful state of balance and I find absolutely no fun i qing anymore.

Is anyone else in the same boat?

Yep. Was looking forward to it pre expansion and absolutely cannot stand it now. It's fucking garbage.

[Brewski]

im in no way saying pvp isnt fucking broke
what im saying is though if you want real pvp, play a fucking pvp game, not a pve game with pvp in it

So basically your solution is to not PvP? Many people play the game just to PvP and don't bother with PvE at all (eg. most rank 1's / gladiators). You accept that PvP is shit because its essentially a PvE game, that couldn't be further from the truth. Blizzard has a dedicated PvP department and now BALANCE PvP and PvE separately. They host arena tournaments and put a big focus on esports. If Blizzard is doing those things it is not a PvE game with PvP in it, that is a bullshit excuse to protect Blizzard when they are incompetent. I prefer the PvP in WoW because moba's don't interest me, same with pretty much everyone who does arenas in WoW. Stop trying to sound like a problem solver suggesting people to play a real PvP game when the PvP in WoW still feels good but just plain broken because Blizzard doesn't make the right decisions.

[FelPlague]

So basically your solution is to not PvP? Many people play the game just to PvP and don't bother with PvE at all (eg. most rank 1's / gladiators). You accept that PvP is shit because its essentially a PvE game, that couldn't be further from the truth. Blizzard has a dedicated PvP department and now BALANCE PvP and PvE separately. They host arena tournaments and put a big focus on esports. If Blizzard is doing those things it is not a PvE game with PvP in it, that is a bullshit excuse to protect Blizzard when they are incompetent. I prefer the PvP in WoW because moba's don't interest me, same with pretty much everyone who does arenas in WoW. Stop trying to sound like a problem solver suggesting people to play a real PvP game when the PvP in WoW still feels good but just plain broken because Blizzard doesn't make the right decisions.

my solution is pvp is broken, pvp will never be the main focus of blizz, so i rather pvp on something that is more focused on pvp, and where the balance is alot closer, because its focused on pvp, and not trying to balance both at once


and does the pvp community all of a sudden think blizz puts equal consideration into pvp as pve? i remember allways people have cried "you guys dont focus on pvp enough, all you care about is PVE"



yes they do alot of pvp stuff for the game, but if they had to choose, they would cut out pvp and keep pve

[Resentless]

Perfect? Who the fuck ever uttered the word perfect? It doesn't need to be perfect, it does however need to not be a complete fucking trainwreck.

It's not a complete fucking trainwreck, thats what MoP season 12 was. This season is relatively well balanced (knowing people will jump on that sentence in an instant, I say relatively because out of 19 arena seasons, FOUR have been considered well balanced, so really, be more objective and talk in context rather than just looking at whats in your face, sure that monk has 15 dashes and seems unkillable, but its not an S5 DK or an S12 bm hunter, every class and nearly every spec has a way into rank 1 at the moment), and any issues with it other than the pvp gearing system and templates specifically are problems with legion as a whole, not just pvp in legion.

[Morgaith]

If you're not playing a druid/dh/mage/monk/rogue you won't find much fun.

[Tya]

World PvP events/quests is the biggest insult. It's pretty much "Are you a dragonslayer? Yes? Enjoy having double stats."

[Osmeric]

Really noteworthy how many people are leaving pvp now they can't faceroll others with their superior gear anymore.

Or how many casual PvPers have left because they don't get much reward at all from the current design.