Vaccine Safety Challenge

[The Stormbringer]

No vaccine is 100% safe. They don't contain this mercury anymore, but side effects on the vaccines clearly state that it could result in serious complications even death. To pretend they're 100% safe is ridiculous. Vaccines are generally safe, and I have been vaccinated and so have my children. But to pretend like there are no risks is flat-out wrong. This is why I am against straight-up making them mandatory. Incentivize the crap out of them, and encourage people to be vaccinated. But don't make it mandatory. That's not a path I wish to go down...

Why else would the government have made The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which still sees use today?

Cars, also not 100% safe. Going outside, also not 100% safe. Walking up and down stairs, also not 100% safe. Where are the Anti-Car, Anti-Nature, and Anti-Stair movements? Yes, this is a bit tongue in cheek, but you get what I mean. Absolutely nothing in life is guaranteed safe, even drinking water. You can choke on it, or drink too much, or it can have something in it that kills you (ala Flint).

[Fat Mac]

i dont understand why anyone wouldnt get there kid vaccinated if there is a chance they could be more artistic

[Berengil]

Precisely, 100% this. Vaccines aren't effective enough if you don't have a herd immunity. All the people that should be able to reasonably get vaccinated for a particular disease need to be. If you only incentivize it, you end up exposing vulnerable people who can't be vaccinated to thousands more who just didn't get vaccinated for something they can reasonably handle. The only level of incentivization that might reach higher levels of vaccination is if you pay people to do it. And it's much easier to penalize them if they don't.

As for the OP: It's blatant when you see mention of thimerosal. You KNOW that whoever is offering something like that isn't even marginally researched in the slightest. Not that the original article is against my PoV, just that those offering a reward are woefully uneducated on the topic.

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

[Machismo]

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

You and I are in complete agreement.

[Mumba]

Both peanuts and vaccines are safe. Some people just happen to be sensitive to the stuff.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That makes sense... at the same time they should start non vaccinated public schools that are super sparce just for those kids. Though I'm not sure how long that could last after the second measles epidemic.

That would be my primary (pun not intended) concern...that by setting up schools just for the non-vaccinated...any outbreaks would quickly turn into epidemics.

At least if a homeschooled kid gets measles...he isn't likely to spread it much farther than his own family. Still sucks for that kid...but the threat is contained.

[Powerogue]

I'd stop by and claim my $100,000 but if it's anything like the creationists going "we'll give you X dollars if you can prove evolution!" they'll move the goalposts as soon as you get there.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

That's the struggle, isn't it? Herd immunity is kind of a big deal. Opting out kills people.

I guess I could compare it to smoking in a public place. By doing so you're making yourself a public health hazard.

[purebalance]

I don't know... on the one hand, we have science and logic. But on the other hand, we have the opinion of someone I masterbated to in high-school. So I'm torn!

Robert DeNiro is a strange person to masturbate to but to each his own.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

I also agree that no one should be forced to get vaccines.

I do think that if people decide to not vaccinate their children then, in the interest of public health, those children should not be admitted to public schools. Find a private school that doesn't require vaccinations or home school. I do care about "mah herd immunity" and those children piggyback on top of it while lowering it's effectiveness.

[Deleted]

Improper seat belt usage is about the only way a seat belt might ever harm you though, short of an entirely unpredictable freak accident. They're even safer than vaccines with a more one-sided benefit.

No, have you ever been in a car accident? Had a huge bruise over front of my body where the seat belt was placed, got some skin torn off and bleeding too and got fractures from the belt when I was in a car crash. Would it have been worse without the belt? Yeah, but they do harm.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

Only a shitty person wouldn't vaccinate against easily preventable diseases. No reason why you should let them live in society if they make it possible for some diseases to come back.

[Sail into the wind]

Tossing money at the problem, rather than the solution, is an interesting way to go about things to say the least.

Is De Niro trying to start his own Film Actors Guild?

[kamuimac]

I hate anti-vaxxers. They are just overly ignorant. If I want acting classes, yeah, sure I will ask Robert de Niro. But if I want advise on what is safe to put in my body to defeat diseases, I will ask a medical professional.

Oh and thimerosal hasn't really been used in vaccines since summer 2001.

kinda hate them too for endangering other people - you can see it easily in work during flu season when everyday someone takes sick leave for few days but before doin it he infects other people

really envy japanese people with their culture of wearing those masks on mouths - it shows caring for other coleagus in work .

from my expreince since i started to taking flu vaxine every year i havent had to leave work due to flu or cold in winter since so i reall feel sorry for idiots who thing all vaxines are evil

[Thepersona]

Gonna have to disagree.

1) I believe vaccines work

2) No one should be forced to take them. Forcing a medical procedure into someone's body is about as shtty a violation of bodily autonomy as you can get.

"BUTBUT MAH HERD IMMUNITY" ? Zero shts given.

For your second point, yeah, but then you shouldnt be able to go to public school/hospital/whatev. You're a public menace till you get vaccinated

[Symphonic]

Cars, also not 100% safe. Going outside, also not 100% safe. Walking up and down stairs, also not 100% safe. Where are the Anti-Car, Anti-Nature, and Anti-Stair movements? Yes, this is a bit tongue in cheek, but you get what I mean. Absolutely nothing in life is guaranteed safe, even drinking water. You can choke on it, or drink too much, or it can have something in it that kills you (ala Flint).

So perhaps you can see why I say that it's worth the risk to me. Driving is worth the risk to get where I need to go. It's unlikely I'll be hurt doing so. I don't agree with anti-vaxxers because I believe vaccines do help, but when they do affect the person negatively I don't like the dismissal and unbelief that it was a vaccine that did it. Yes, they can be fatal, yes they can cause brain damage, but it's not likely.

[The Stormbringer]

So perhaps you can see why I say that it's worth the risk to me. Driving is worth the risk to get where I need to go. It's unlikely I'll be hurt doing so. I don't agree with anti-vaxxers because I believe vaccines do help, but when they do affect the person negatively I don't like the dismissal and unbelief that it was a vaccine that did it. Yes, they can be fatal, yes they can cause brain damage, but it's not likely.

Well sure, it's possible, no one is denying that completely. What anti-vaxxers don't get is the chance is so small as to be astronomical. If they want to advocate for reducing the chance and safer measures, great, but they don't. What they want is to ban vaccines, or get special exemptions for their children to not be vaccinated, often causing their children or those who are unable to be vaccinated to get sick.

I apologize for coming off so strongly, but anti-vaxxers are just so phenomenally stupid in their approach and damaging to people around them that it tends to piss me off.

[Mihalik]

This is pretty much my exact position.

Also, the sort of challenge made in the OP is pretty dumb, as science can't really prove a vaccine is safe so much as demonstrate an absence of harm or at least a lack of consistent harm. There's basically nothing in medicine without the potential for at least associated side-effects, whether we're talking about vaccines, antibiotics, or cotton swabs and nitrile gloves. It's also not a realistic standard in the first place, as each individual is a unique iteration of a common biochemical theme. These sorts of publicity stunts are best ignored.

Vaccination works. The statistics are there to prove it. The issue is that vaccines work when they are used en-mass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity This is the principle behind mass vaccination programs.

When was the last time you met a child with Polio or Measles or worse Smallpox?

Vaccination needs to be mandatory. Not just to protect the person being vaccinated, but to protect everyone from that person. A single unvaccinated individual can easily infect and potentially kill dozens of people in whom the vaccines had limited effectiveness or who couldn't be vaccinated due to compromised immune systems.

It is a public health issue. It is not just about the individual being vaccinated, but about everyone else around him/her.

I understand the adversity to anything that is mandatory, but in this context the question is moot.

[Mihalik]

If you think a remedial lecture on vaccine concepts and functioning is the key to persuading me to agree to unnecessary legislation to accomplish something we've been accomplishing just fine without it for decades, think again.

Anti-vaccination fads and movements are relatively recent phenomenon. Legislation wasn't needed because people either experienced and witnessed the effectiveness of vaccination programs or because they accepted the authority of the scientific and medical community.

[satimy]

I hate anti-vaxxers. They are just overly ignorant. If I want acting classes, yeah, sure I will ask Robert de Niro. But if I want advise on what is safe to put in my body to defeat diseases, I will ask a medical professional.

Oh and thimerosal hasn't really been used in vaccines since summer 2001.

So you concede that thiomersal is awful? You do realize why they stopped using thiomersal right?

- - - Updated - - -

Anti-vaccination fads and movements are relatively recent phenomenon. Legislation wasn't needed because people either experienced and witnessed the effectiveness of vaccination programs or because they accepted the authority of the scientific and medical community.

Thiomersal isn't a vaccine, you're strawmanning

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Gotta love this new world we live in where idiots think it's up to you to prove a negative, rather than them to supply proof of their idiotic claims.

And people wonder how Trump got into the White House, and why England is leaving the E.U.

[Soulfighter101]

The claim that Thimerosal is dangerous just because it is a compound that has mercury is so stupid. Yes mercury is highly toxic. But pure sodium if exposed to water will explode and chlorine is a very poisonous gas if you combine the two together you get table salt.

But chemicals are bad!!! *inhales O2*

All joking aside, it's going to be impossible to prove vaccines are any safer than we already have. We have a vast majority of a population taking them throughout developmental years, and no side-effects beyond 'this person is immuno-compromised and should not have received a vaccine'. The fact that we're arguing the safety of these things only shows how privileged the newer generations are in not experiencing the mass-deaths of people infected with measles. A century ago, it wasn't too rare to hear of a classmate dying of polio or some other now-preventable disease.

But what does the face of danger from vaccines look like? It's not the much more dangerous 'people who can't get vaccines sometimes get them on accident and get really sick/die', it's the autism. As someone who has autism, it's not what you'd think. Even then if it DID cause autism, i'd take the vaccines again because I DONT WANT POLIO, AND NEITHER DO YOU.