2024 MLB thread

[Nellise]

Trout is an average fielder. If you want to argue with facts, that's on you. I'm out.

He's an average centerfielder, which is way more valuable than an average first baseman or even an above average one. There's a reason that usually the least athletic players are put at first base or left field, and not center. It's why Gardner usually has had such crazy defensive numbers, he's a centerfielder playing left so he gets to way more balls than the average leftfielder. Pujols is still able to play first even though he can barely move these days.

Also, do you not believe that seasons have different conditions that affect offense? Like you believe in 1993 and 2019 that every player just decided they should be better batters? Nothing happened between 1968 and 69 that made offense jump? Players in Coors hit exactly the same way they do everywhere else?

[draynay]

Pujols OPS+ would have been around 190 if his prime years were from 12-19, assuming he would put up the same exact numbers.

Which would be a sensationally stupid assumption and ignore all the factors that OPS+ takes into account, its like you're deliberately misunderstanding what these advanced statistics represent.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Which would be a sensationally stupid assumption and ignore all the factors that OPS+ takes into account, its like you're deliberately misunderstanding what these advanced statistics represent.

That's my point exactly you absolute cretin. That's why you can't use OPS+ to compare players from different times.

You're nitpicking at specific parts of my posts for the sake of petty confrontation.

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He's an average centerfielder, which is way more valuable than an average first baseman or even an above average one. There's a reason that usually the least athletic players are put at first base or left field, and not center. It's why Gardner usually has had such crazy defensive numbers, he's a centerfielder playing left so he gets to way more balls than the average leftfielder. Pujols is still able to play first even though he can barely move these days.

Also, do you not believe that seasons have different conditions that affect offense? Like you believe in 1993 and 2019 that every player just decided they should be better batters? Nothing happened between 1968 and 69 that made offense jump? Players in Coors hit exactly the same way they do everywhere else?

Trout has 8 defensive runs saved through 9 seasons. Pujols had 114. If we were to pick one of them based on defense alone, no one would pick Trout. It's a no brainer.

infracted - minor flaming

[Nellise]

That's my point exactly you absolute cretin. That's why you can't use OPS+ to compare players from different times.

We have no idea what you mean by this. The point of those stats is to compare across different times. You're making no sense. You didn't answer my questions about conditions: you believe they're the same for every year and every stadium across all time?

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

We have no idea what you mean by this. The point of those stats is to compare across different times. You're making no sense. You didn't answer my questions about conditions: you believe they're the same for every year and every stadium across all time?

No it isn't. The point of OPS+ is to compare a player with the rest of the league that one specific year. 180 OPS+ in 2019 is not 180 OPS+ in 2001. If you can't understand that then just leave me alone and educate yourself.

[Nellise]

No it isn't. The point of OPS+ is to compare a player with the rest of the league that one specific year. 180 OPS+ in 2019 is not 180 OPS+ in 2001. If you can't understand that then just leave me alone and educate yourself.

So if someone is 80% better than league average in 2001, and someone else is 80% above league average in 2019, they're both not actually 80% better than league average, the guy from 2001 would actually be better than 80% better than league average in 2019 because Coors wasn't using the humidor yet?

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

I literally posted the definition of OPS+ in an earlier post what is this argument even about?

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So if someone is 80% better than league average in 2001, and someone else is 80% above league average in 2019, they're both not actually 80% better than league average, the guy from 2001 would actually be better than 80% better than league average in 2019 because Coors wasn't using the humidor yet?

League average isn't the same every year. Let alone in the early 2000s when the league was much more offensive driven.

[Nellise]

League average isn't the same every year. Let alone in the early 2000s when the league was much more offensive driven.

We know the averages change which is why the + stats normalize to the season average to get rid of that. 80% better than average is 80% better than average.

https://tht.fangraphs.com/is-there-a...storical-eras/
"How do we compare players from different eras of baseball to each other? We can’t just compare raw numbers, since baseball today is a wildly different game than baseball was in 1920. Was Barry Bonds’ best season stronger than Babe Ruth’s best? Who was more dominant in his time?

One of the best tools we have for these types of comparisons is the “plus” stat, like OPS+ or ERA+."

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

We know the averages change which is why the + stats normalize to the season average to get rid of that. 80% better than average is 80% better than average.

https://tht.fangraphs.com/is-there-a...storical-eras/
"How do we compare players from different eras of baseball to each other? We can’t just compare raw numbers, since baseball today is a wildly different game than baseball was in 1920. Was Barry Bonds’ best season stronger than Babe Ruth’s best? Who was more dominant in his time?

One of the best tools we have for these types of comparisons is the “plus” stat, like OPS+ or ERA+."

The fact of the matter is league average from 2001-2010, was higher than league average from 2012-2019. Hence why Pujols' OPS+ is 5 points lower than Trout's, despite Pujols having better numbers. Trout has been slightly more dominant in his time than Pujols was in his, but that's only because the average player from 2012-19 isn't good as the average player from 2001-10. That's a fact, there's a reason why they had to juice the baseballs.

[draynay]

but that's only because the average player from 2012-19 isn't good as the average player from 2001-10. That's a fact

Its conjecture.

[Nellise]

Its conjecture.

It's a ridiculous notion. Lots of stuff has changed in just the past 10 years that has caused hitting to decrease. In 2008, about 200 pitches were thrown 100+ mph, in 2018 there were over 1200. Average fastball velocity is up nearly 2mph since 2008. Teams use relievers in much different ways now than they did 10 years ago. Shifting has exploded and now even right handed batters are shifted against regularly.

[draynay]

It's a ridiculous notion. Lots of stuff has changed in just the past 10 years that has caused hitting to decrease. In 2008, about 200 pitches were thrown 100+ mph, in 2018 there were over 1200. Average fastball velocity is up nearly 2mph since 2008. Teams use relievers in much different ways now than they did 10 years ago. Shifting has exploded and now even right handed batters are shifted against regularly.

Of course its absurd, but there was no point continuing further with someone who was presenting qualitative presumptions as "facts".

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The Athletic is reporting on E-mails sent by Astros officials to scouts requesting that they steal signs from opposing team dugouts including with cameras. Seems like the MLB investigation is gaining momentum.

[draynay]

Nationals ownership said they couldn't keep both Strasburg and Rendon, so, bye to Rendon I guess, 7 years $245mil for Strasburg.

[draynay]

Word is Cole signed a MASSIVE $324M deal with the Yankees for the next ~decade.

Last year's free agents must be wondering where the hell all this money was when it was their turn.

[Vetali]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...aling-mlb.html

Astros got mushroom stamped. Red Sox are next in line.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...aling-mlb.html

Astros got mushroom stamped. Red Sox are next in line.

Gave 'em everything short of voiding their World Series win.

[Vetali]

Gave 'em everything short of voiding their World Series win.

That wont happen for either team, unfortunately. Though I hear Cora's suspension will be longer than Hinch because of his involvement across 2 teams.

[tylenol]

Seems worth it for other teams...$5 million is meh money to every team even Tampa, losing 4? draft picks? who cares got a title, GM/manager get tossed for a year (then fired by the owner, IMO because they got caught) still got a ring out of it.

The fact that the MLB knows they did this during the post-season when they won the world series and still didn't vacate the championship is kinda BS.

[draynay]

They threw out a lot of punishment, and bonus, people got fired, but it was never going to be enough for me.

[muto]

I think more should be done, but it’s kind of hard to without punishing innocent players (pitchers), and bench players. I think taking away their draft picks was a good move. Though not an immediate impact. It will have an impact over time.