revert subtlety PvP to pre 7.0 patch?

[shoegazing]

there is a movement of PvP rogues on twitter asking Blizzard developers Talbadar (multiple time rank 1 PvP, Blizzcon arena champion, and current Blizzard QA analyst) and Zorbrix (Blizzard esports manager) to revert Subtlety to pre 7.0 when it had a more exciting and roguelike playstyle

these guys aren't exactly Holinka, Watcher, or Celestalon, but they are nevertheless influential when it comes to WoW PvP

I urge anyone who has similar feelings about this issue to tweet at these fellas and tell them how the Rogue PvP community feels about the 7.0 subtlety redesign

You can find the discussion on Twitter at https://twitter.com/rogue_happyfeet/...98664112177152

Some suggested talking points:

1. we lost a lot of our diversity of CCs and DR categories in exchange for constant Dance uptime and Cheap/Shadowtrike spam
2. Shadowstrike teleport is an unhealthy mechanic in PvP
3. with 3x Dance charges but no Find Weakness, we rarely if ever have any incentive to play a traditional roguelike hit & run style, and seek out a restealth... and we have extremely limited burst dps when opening from stealth in PvP
4. game responsiveness updates have eliminated traditional high skillcap rogue micro plays like stepping charge or kicking warstomp-->clone or vanish immuning blind/deathcoil/etc
5. lack of poisons exacerbates loss of roguelike hit & run playstyle as we no longer have crippling poison to kite for a restealth
6. lack of ability relationships like sap/gouge warrior --> berserker rage --> shiv dispel enrage --> priest/warlock teammate lands full fear while berserker rage is on CD
7. pruning of stealth oriented abilities like Shadow Walk (w/ stealth detect glyph)
8. Smokebomb is no longer baseline but is now a PvP talent that competes on the same tier with objectively stronger passive cooldown reduction
9. pruning of 'point guard' / 'shot caller' tricks of the trade damage buff which established rogue as the coordinator of team offense even when personal burst damage is on cooldown
10. loss of micro plays such as (active) premed --> sap --> camera turn cheap shot without breaking sap (now have 4 combo points) --> restealth & wait DRs --> (4pt) slice and dice --> open with slice already active and premed back off CD so need to premed for slice.... another example of this type of high skill cap micro play was expose armor w/o breaking gouge/sap
11. holy balls they pruned gouge, garrote, shiv, and poisons.... wtf.... is this even a rogue anymore?
12. overall reduction of subtlety rogue skillcap and playmaking potential
13. anything else that you might think of, I'm sure there is more

thank you so much for your time and effort

Legion Subtlety is an abomination as far as most PvP rogues are concerned and the best possible outcome would be to have this 100% disastrous and moronic spec redesign be completely reverted

sorry PvE rogues but this has been OUR spec for well over a decade before you ever got your hands on it and you lovely people should go play combat or assassin... or at the very least sweeping and substantial changes need to be made to the PvP talents so that subtlety can play in PvP the way it is supposed to play as opposed to a dumbass 223 223 spam personal teleporting stunbot slave to a mage teamate

[Xvolte]

Wow, never realized how much stuff has actually been removed from sub until you see it in a list like this. Sub has been all I've played in PvE or PvP since armor pen WoTLK (except that one time I play combat with red buff hahaha). I do miss the old days when we had gouge, garrote, shiv, and crippling poison. Shadowstrike is such a stupid move to be honest..

[Elinore]

I think nearly everyone agree that playstyle was better back then, but the core problem is they pruned every classes and specs so hard that they have to change each and every spec.

If sub Rogue is the only spec back to the pre 7.0 gameplay it will be a freaking god mod due to the lack of "micro plays" of every spec. PvP right now is just a matter of check you DR, Cc one guy and PvE your primary target.

[Holycrap1]

they could at least make more flavor abilities like Nightblade and Shadowstrike.
for example, they could make it so that we infuse our weapons with void energy that makes enemies hit be afflicted with touch of the void, that slows them or something

[elfporn]

It will never work.

You come off as whining about the "good 'ol days" with little to no consideration about what was done to every single other class and spec.

You might get a glance, but hardly a reply of any meaning.

[Coldkil]

Ok, closing. There's nothing good coming from this discussion when the main argument is

sorry PvE rogues but this has been OUR spec for well over a decade before you ever got your hands on it and you lovely people should go play combat or assassin... or at the very least sweeping and substantial changes need to be made to the PvP talents so that subtlety can play in PvP the way it is supposed to play as opposed to a dumbass 223 223 spam personal teleporting stunbot slave to a mage teamate