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  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Sorry, but there really hasn't been any jobs that have been created that Trump can claim.
    Lemme guess 8 years of Obama and zilch, suddenly he's gone and jobs are dime a dozen, strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    you've been bent over since 1980's by insurance companies, drug companies, doctors, etc and now you have a problem with it.

    were you not working during the roll out of HMO's in the 90's with 20% being normal rate increases after they gutted ppo?
    were you not around in the 2000's when they hard core pushed denials, pre existing and approvals that never happened?

    etc etc etc
    Problem is healthcare has never hurt as much as it does now.
    Disarm now correctly removes the targets’ arms.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post

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    Problem is healthcare has never hurt as much as it does now.
    debatable.

    cost wise i would agree.

    but try paying years of health insurance only to be told after 20 years you are not covered because of pre-existing......and some of the PE were so retarded. the abuse was astronomical

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post
    Problem is healthcare has never hurt as much as it does now.
    Most of the rise in costs (at a systemic level) took place under Bush. From 2000-2009, healthcare expenditure went from about 13% to about 17% of GDP. Since Obamacare was passed, the cost growth was stymied and expenditure has remained within 17%. True that right now it's better for lower and mid-lower, but often worse for middle class than it was previously, but one of the positives of Obamacare is that overall healthcare costs aren't rising nearly as fast as they were. The decades long decline of the middle class and the post-recession economy are in a big way part of why it hurts so much too.

    Now the goal has to be to get the costs down.

  4. #744
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Ryan now says that this bill is "as good as it gets". Wow, do they suck.

    Let's just keep the ACA then, shall we? If "the best you can do" is cut insurance for the poor and pay out huge tax gifts to the wealthy, perhaps the GOP should just STFU.
    No one is above the law!

  5. #745
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post
    Lemme guess 8 years of Obama and zilch, suddenly he's gone and jobs are dime a dozen, strange.
    Have you been asleep? Jobs, real jobs, not part time jobs, have been going up steadily since 2010. If you were asleep for 6 years, that would explain why you think there was "zilch" under Obama and now suddenly tons and tons of jobs.

    News flash: They've been going upward at a steady pace. Also, in case you were completely in the dark about this little fact, policies take time to take effect. Most are never implemented immediately. Most laws and acts are set to go into effect months and sometimes even years after they are passed. None of Trump's legislation has yet to have any effect on jobs or the economy. All of this intense job growth is left over from the Obama administration. Look at jobs 1 to 2 years from now for a real view of what's going to happen. If jobs are still rising 4 years from now, I'll honestly be shocked. All of the regulations Trump is tearing apart for wall street and big business is the exact same thing that caused the 2007 crash.


    Problem is healthcare has never hurt as much as it does now.
    You can look up the percentage of growth in health care premiums. If you look at the 90's, health care inflation was far more out of control then, and aside from a 2 year low in growth several years before the ACA was passed, we've seen some of the lowest premium growth per anum.

    If you're getting employer group health insurance, and when the ACA was passed, your monthly payments went way up, you really should research why that happened. See, you can look up how much your employer was subsidizing your payments, how much they were paying towards your health care. Many gave their employees insurance at costs of two figures per month... while footing hundreds of dollars themselves. When the ACA passed, a lot of businesses with a political agenda decided to screw their employees, taking away the amount they had been paying towards employee health insurance, then telling their employees that it was the fault of the ACA.

    The dumb employees went "HERP DERP FUCK OBAMACARE" the smart ones looked up how much their employers were paying for their insurance, found that they had severely cut how much they were contributing, and called the employers out on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ryan now says that this bill is "as good as it gets". Wow, do they suck.

    Let's just keep the ACA then, shall we? If "the best you can do" is cut insurance for the poor and pay out huge tax gifts to the wealthy, perhaps the GOP should just STFU.
    Are you tired of draining the swamp yet?!
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ryan now says that this bill is "as good as it gets". Wow, do they suck.

    Let's just keep the ACA then, shall we? If "the best you can do" is cut insurance for the poor and pay out huge tax gifts to the wealthy, perhaps the GOP should just STFU.
    Ryan's reputation as a "policy wonk" has served well to hide how profoundly stupid he is.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ryan now says that this bill is "as good as it gets". Wow, do they suck.

    Let's just keep the ACA then, shall we? If "the best you can do" is cut insurance for the poor and pay out huge tax gifts to the wealthy, perhaps the GOP should just STFU.
    Don't worry something will trickle down rumor is Trump is into that kind of thing.

  8. #748
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Don't worry something will trickle down rumor is Trump is into that kind of thing.
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.
    At least you could screw the hookers afterwards in this case we're getting screwed.

  10. #750
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Ryan's reputation as a "policy wonk" has served well to hide how profoundly stupid he is.
    He's not stupid. It's just...I don't know what he's doing here. This bill is clearly not that good, and Ryan is taking a bullet for Trump's impossible promises. Why is he sticking his neck out for this?

  11. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    He's not stupid. It's just...I don't know what he's doing here. This bill is clearly not that good, and Ryan is taking a bullet for Trump's impossible promises. Why is he sticking his neck out for this?
    This is almost verbatim the Paul Ryan health plan he's been pushing since 2009.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    He's not stupid. It's just...I don't know what he's doing here. This bill is clearly not that good, and Ryan is taking a bullet for Trump's impossible promises. Why is he sticking his neck out for this?
    Because he's a Randian shithead. Its only complicated if you need it to be.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Ryan's reputation as a "policy wonk" has served well to hide how profoundly stupid he is.
    I mean, this is the party that refers to Newt as a "Big thinker", pretty sure most of their monikers are ironic.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post
    Lemme guess 8 years of Obama and zilch, suddenly he's gone and jobs are dime a dozen, strange.

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    Problem is healthcare has never hurt as much as it does now.
    You obviously aren't American, otherwise you wouldn't be this fucking blind to reality. Oh what the fuck am I saying, Trump supporters are this fucking blind to reality. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you were this ignorant of the truth.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    I mean, this is the party that refers to Newt as a "Big thinker", pretty sure most of their monikers are ironic.
    They're lost the ability as a party to govern. Its bee literally over a decade since the GOP has undertaken any kind of serious legislative effort.

  16. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ryan now says that this bill is "as good as it gets". Wow, do they suck.

    Let's just keep the ACA then, shall we? If "the best you can do" is cut insurance for the poor and pay out huge tax gifts to the wealthy, perhaps the GOP should just STFU.
    Maybe that was their plan all along. They only opposed the ACA because it was the Democrats that presented it.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Allerius View Post
    You know telling someone most people are unlikely to need major healthcare and that this individual will definitely need 50k surgery is kind of contradictory. But hey, keep on being condescending while not knowing shit about how to calculate probability weighed costs
    It's not contradictory in anyway. Its a simplistic, napkin math example to explain how insurance companies work to maintain profitability. But I guess you were too smart to figure that out. And yes, hate to point it out to you, but most people paying into a health insurance policy are unlikely to require major healthcare expenses for the majority of the time they are paying into the plan. Which is why the few people who DO require them can be easily covered by the plan without bankrupting the Insurance co. I would try not to be so condescending, but I find it terribly difficult to do when it is entirely justified.

  18. #758
    I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but I saw a comment elsewhere that really nailed it, and it's too good not to share here.

    "The Deplorable Care Act"
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    It's not contradictory in anyway. Its a simplistic, napkin math example to explain how insurance companies work to maintain profitability. But I guess you were too smart to figure that out. And yes, hate to point it out to you, but most people paying into a health insurance policy are unlikely to require major healthcare expenses for the majority of the time they are paying into the plan. Which is why the few people who DO require them can be easily covered by the plan without bankrupting the Insurance co. I would try not to be so condescending, but I find it terribly difficult to do when it is entirely justified.
    I think that poster's point was more that most of the people paying in, in hindsight, would've been better off saving their money instead. Obviously, insurance is about contingency: you never know when you're going to need it, and that's why people buy in when most of then end up getting almost nothing out of it in a particular year.

    This fundamental dissonance in how the system functions is only one of many reasons we need to move past it.

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I think that poster's point was more that most of the people paying in, in hindsight, would've been better off saving their money instead.
    Except that that is pretty much never the case, as the times when you truly need your healthcare plan to pay out (major medical expenses) are the times when your purchasing power as a single individual is pretty much never going to cut it compared to the value provided by the insurance collective. Sure, the average person could cover simple medical things like routine flue shots or minor injuries out of pocket fairly easily instead of paying for insurance, and then pulling out of the insurance to cover it, but that simply wont work for major incidents, unless you have been intentionally saving into a dedicated personal "Medical Emergency" side account since pretty much the moment you got a job.

    Not to mention that if everybody decided to "save their money" instead of putting it into insurance, it would pretty much kill the individual insurance industry over night. It would literally become impossible for an individual to get insurance because it would be impossible to maintain any kind of profitability.

    Also, you would never be better off in hindsight saving the money anyway, but that is an entirely different argument which comes back to the "Health Insurance" VS "Health Care" mentality thing I mentioned earlier in the thread, which is usually what has most of the rest of the civilized world constantly looking at Americans and wondering what the hell is wrong with them.

    Pretty much the only people who would be better off saving their money are the ones who are wealthy enough to cover major medical expenses out of pocket without impacting their savings, which is going to be literally the top 10% or so of people in the country.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2017-03-10 at 09:38 AM.

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