Is Heroic Gul'dan possible with 10man raid size?

[dionim]

I tried to find videos of that fight on 10man but could'nt find any.

Is it even possible as a 10man grp with 890ilvl average? If yes what is the best comp? 2 tanks / 3 healers / 5 dps ??

Thanks for the help.

[GT4]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...arch=size.0.10

Here's a list of Gul'dan HC 10 player kills.

[Zephirdd]

I'd say it's a 2/2/6 fight. The dps requirements for eyes is quite high. You also can't afford to have players not dpsing the eyes; at 890 average ilvl it should definitely be doable.

However, as with any 10man fight, every single fuck up will make the fight horribly harder. At least it should be easier to control fire on last phase than with a higher raid size.

[Probably]

Assuming your group does mechanics correctly you would probably be better off two healing the fight and using 6 dps. On heroic its not hard to heal. You'll want to coordinate the healers bubbles for most the fight and arrange healing cd's for phase 3 black harvests. You will definitely want the extra dps to quickly kill off eyes, and burn the boss quickly as possible in p3. I recommend saving lust for the 3rd eye in p3.

Of course the more the merrier, and you can do it with 890 Ilvl but not 3 healing. Unless your dps is just god damn amazing you'll only want 2.

[dionim]

Assuming your group does mechanics correctly you would probably be better off two healing the fight and using 6 dps. On heroic its not hard to heal. You'll want to coordinate the healers bubbles for most the fight and arrange healing cd's for phase 3 black harvests. You will definitely want the extra dps to quickly kill off eyes, and burn the boss quickly as possible in p3. I recommend saving lust for the 3rd eye in p3.

Of course the more the merrier, and you can do it with 890 Ilvl but not 3 healing. Unless your dps is just god damn amazing you'll only want 2.

Thanks for all the answers, I'm a dps on a 5/10M guild and trying to organize a raid for my friends to have fun on my alt.

What is the best way to use bubbles? thats one thing that I wasnt paying much attention, I'm also pretty bad at figuring out healing cds for only 2 healers, thats why I wanted a video

Thanks for the logs @GT4 I'll help a toon!

[Pippo89]

Possible yes, but a huge pain in the ass.

[Mushedcow]

If 1 person dies you'll have to re-soak all of their souls. Best we got it to was 7-10% with 11 people. As soon as we added 8 people we killed it with ease, more people to deal with souls soaking/bonds breaking and all that.

[faithbane]

I tried to find videos of that fight on 10man but could'nt find any.

Is it even possible as a 10man grp with 890ilvl average? If yes what is the best comp? 2 tanks / 3 healers / 5 dps ??

Thanks for the help.

Hi, I can tell you that 10 man H guldan is absolutely doable. The dps requirement is not as high as people are making it up to be and the eye count + empowered eye targets are a lot less then large groups which make them easily manageable. It is quite doable with only 2 healers and 6 dps as long as the group is geared. We also tried to do burst guldan to 90% before he bubbles on addd phase, then 1 tank with a melee dps stepping into clear the guldan energy at 25-30lvl which makes the fight go so much faster but adds an extra RNG to the fight (can totally get messed up in the last phase) and stress on healers.

The only real problem is the empowered hellfires. Because the group has less people overall, the % chance of the person with the empowered bonds to get the hellfire on his head is quite higher then large scale groups which will likely result in death. It is completely RNG and there is nothing you can do about it except to stack the group with ranged dps to lower the odds.

[Dracodraco]

Having done Guldan in 10 man, the biggest issue was the damage intake really. We had our main tank (brewmaster) solo tank as there's really nothing that requires 2x tanks as long as you don't get 1 shot by the scythe/bonds (and BRM can teleport back from the knockback).
There's the same amount of souls in 10 as in 30 as far as I can tell - and with the souls doing 30K DPS, having 2-3 people take 5 souls each wave means at the end you're dealing with the normal output of the fight (empowered eye, flames of sargeras, tank dmg, black harvest etc) PLUS atleast 6 people taking 150K damage per second each. Add to this that Flames go out at the same amount and frequency, you're also looking at your 2 healers having a ~1 in 3 getting flames each wave, making them have to sustain over 500K hps while moving around.

We added a third healer going up to 11 man and killed it promptly after, as that fixed most of the "Couldn't heal, was moving from flames" issues.

[Puri]

We did it with 12 players 2/3/7 and it was annoying enough. The advantage is you don't have a problem with spreading out for the eyes, but especially during eye+emp. bonds phase it was highly luck dependent if there were two melees in bonds (which could not help killing the eye) or two ranges (which often still could hit them).

Also soaking the souls was quite a stress, as we needed melees to soak them too and this was damage that was missing on the boss.

When doing it with 10 players I also would settle for 2/2/6, but it's going to be a huge PITA when some healer gets the empowered bonds and cannot reach the tanks or people taking damage in the overlapping phases, or has to run in the third phase.

[dionim]

Thanks everyone for the advice, we will be trying this today hahaha, but reading this it is what I expected, going for 10man will give us a real challenge, gonna try it out and post the result!

[Raiju]

As a far others mentioned the damage req isn't the issue - it's the damage you take compared to a 20/30 man. Filling with bodies of questionable intelligence makes this fight significantly easier.

[Softbottom]

It is not fun with anything less than 12.

[kazas]

Possible yes, but a huge pain in the ass.

This is pretty much it.

Someone dies, you're screwed without a brez available.

[PraisCthulhu]

Thanks for all the answers, I'm a dps on a 5/10M guild and trying to organize a raid for my friends to have fun on my alt.

What is the best way to use bubbles? thats one thing that I wasnt paying much attention, I'm also pretty bad at figuring out healing cds for only 2 healers, thats why I wanted a video

Thanks for the logs @GT4 I'll help a toon!

Even a video isn't going to 100% solve your healer CD coordination as which two healers you're bringing impact that. A shaman and a Holy Pally do not have the same number or type of raid CDs.

[Pippo89]

Did Gul'Dan with 21 players today, killed him in the third pull. We struggled for weeks as a 10-man raid with the best try being 13%.

The chains are just a joke with that many players. With 10 man, literally everyone except the Gul'dan tank(s) has to help. You also have much more class variety for killing the eyes or the empowered eye. Yes, wrong Flames of Sargeras placement can still quickly kill the raid, or Black Harvest with souls in it, but the difference is just breathtaking.

[hasslehoof]

you get almost the same amount of mechanics with 10 people as you do with 30, did it with 10 a few weeks ago and it was a pita, although we were using a few undergeared people. if you can kill the Eyes before they duplicate on high-ish health I'd suggest 3 healing it.

[Rathaniel]

Yes but very hard to accomplish

[Spiralphoenix]

We did it with 12 players 2/3/7 and it was annoying enough. The advantage is you don't have a problem with spreading out for the eyes, but especially during eye+emp. bonds phase it was highly luck dependent if there were two melees in bonds (which could not help killing the eye) or two ranges (which often still could hit them).

Also soaking the souls was quite a stress, as we needed melees to soak them too and this was damage that was missing on the boss.

When doing it with 10 players I also would settle for 2/2/6, but it's going to be a huge PITA when some healer gets the empowered bonds and cannot reach the tanks or people taking damage in the overlapping phases, or has to run in the third phase.

We tank him on the edge of the circle of souls, so melee can still hit him. There is still room to run from the storm, and pretty much ensures all fire gets cleared every time (though that would never really be an issue anyway). Our group is generally melee heavy, and ranged (I am one of them) typically get fire so frequently (90%+ of the time it goes out) that melee are almost the only ones soaking the souls. I rarely have time to get close enough to do it, except in those little gaps where he doesn't put fire out at all.

But yeah I would say the fight isn't super fairly tuned for smaller groups. Doable, though.

[Beazzles]

Brind 2 affliction locks for soaking souls, there self HPS just as a normal rotation makes it a joke