No sense of progression in Nighthold - Preach video

[Baza]

One of his better videos in my opinion.

TL;DR - because of various reasons, farm bosses on mythic are taking the same time to kill as the 1st kill of those bosses, comapred to Throne of thunder, where kill times went down by more than 2/3, and that contributes to fatigue and burnout. I agree, though I can barely be considered as a mythic raider.

[Joryy]

I don't know exactly how he sourced his graphs, but my guild's killtimes have gone down significantly as we farmed.

The ilevel gradient, ap farming, titanforging, and 2 difficulties worth of easy tier have certainly frontloaded a lot of the throughput gain, but not to the extent of his graphs. I suspect that we're seeing fully SoO geared raids being compared to half nighthold geared raids.

[Soikona]

Sorry, once someone mentions preach, they lose all credit to me.

However, I don't mind the kill times

[RaZz0r]

I agree with this as well tho my guild is only 4/10M atm im 3/10 due to me missing the krosus kill.
But for example as the gear of our guild has grown stronger Skorpyron takes pretty much as long.
Due to the color changing mechanic we had to have a dps go healer as he was sometimes only dropping one shard before the aoe knock back.
And since the placement of said shard is seemingly random it would sometimes spawn in really bad locations making it nearly impossible to stand behind it.

[Deleted]

Thrill of the kill - he dosen't feel that
Loot- he dosen't feel satisfaction in getting it
Achievments - dosen't care for them

...

Why is he playing this game again?

[Lartok]

I agree with this as well tho my guild is only 4/10M atm im 3/10 due to me missing the krosus kill.
But for example as the gear of our guild has grown stronger Skorpyron takes pretty much as long.
Due to the color changing mechanic we had to have a dps go healer as he was sometimes only dropping one shard before the aoe knock back.
And since the placement of said shard is seemingly random it would sometimes spawn in really bad locations making it nearly impossible to stand behind it.

It isn't random btw, it drops behind him, maybe even behind and to the left but regardless if the boss is pointing towards the wall the shard will be near the centre and easy to stand behind.

[Flurryfang]

Preach is a guy completly controlled by his own emotions and his own player-situation. If you wanted an overall look at the game, Preach is the last guy you should go to.

I kind of understand his reasoning, but aslong as you are not an insane mythic player, this does not hold up. Also if most guilds were having trouble progressing through Nighthold, Blizzard would see it and nerf some bosses.

The current raiding scene has some problems, but Preach is not very good at showing them. As always, he gets a 2/10 for effort.

[Deleted]

I agree completely. Our mythic kills are taking pretty much the same amount of time despite increasing in gear each reset

[RaZz0r]

Thrill of the kill - he dosen't feel that
Loot- he dosen't feel satisfaction in getting it
Achievments - dosen't care for them

...

Why is he playing this game again?

i'm feeling the same way as he dose and the Thrill of the kill.
Problem is it only really happens the first or the second time but once the boss hits farm status.
It dissapares then its all about how hard you can push it and to see how fast you can get it down.
Maybe even by pass mechanics its a great feeling of growth in power as a raid mopping the floor with a boss.
That caused you a pain in the beginning.

[kamuimac]

Sorry, once someone mentions preach, they lose all credit to me.

However, I don't mind the kill times

oh come on its probably ghosty on one of his accounts making PR for their "media empire in building" ofc they would link anything here

- - - Updated - - -

Thrill of the kill - he dosen't feel that
Loot- he dosen't feel satisfaction in getting it
Achievments - dosen't care for them

...

Why is he playing this game again?

because his "hey mate lets play" vidoes have shitty amount of views compared to his WoW videos ? and he has to pay bills somehow

[TOM_RUS]

I completely agree.

[RaZz0r]

It isn't random btw, it drops behind him, maybe even behind and to the left but regardless if the boss is pointing towards the wall the shard will be near the centre and easy to stand behind.

Hu good to know we always thought it was ether random or targeted at a player so its the tanks fault that the one shard we get spawns in the middle of the scorpions.

i will keep that in mind for next weeks kill to see if we can push it down a bit faster

[Hiricine]

Blizz has managed to flatten the gear curve so hard theres only learning fights that used to get progressively easier by design.

The entire premise of the raid reward system is that with the best rewards you can steamroll the old stuff. They need to either change the difficulty curve to make sense that you aren't really gearing up for the last 2 bosses or change the gear curve so that you're MUCH stronger by the time you finish.

[Deleted]

There are different fors/againsts for each raid, legendaries and the rings in WoD increase in power skewing BRF and HFC in different ways. Entry tiers just being entry tiers and the gear growth being too substantial there. ToT being one of the last that was directly comparable to NH does feel somewhat right. At least from what I can see.

There is some degree of this at play though from what Preach highlights, with a largely similar raid team our first Krosus kill 5:46 our second kill 5:59 and there has been similar experiences on other bosses. It particularly resonated with me after watching it last night.

Typically you do expect to see returns quicker, on Iskar we had to tone down DPS to avoid making the fight harder on our selves. It did lend itself to a feeling of the fights changing slightly from week to week, because the challenge attached changed slightly while still not requiring full on attention.

[Okacz]

Preach is a guy completly controlled by his own emotions and his own player-situation. If you wanted an overall look at the game, Preach is the last guy you should go to.

I kind of understand his reasoning, but aslong as you are not an insane mythic player, this does not hold up. Also if most guilds were having trouble progressing through Nighthold, Blizzard would see it and nerf some bosses.

The current raiding scene has some problems, but Preach is not very good at showing them. As always, he gets a 2/10 for effort.

"A guy controlled by his own emotions" is a long version of "A guy". Of course his videos are heavily influenced by their authors emotions and situation, it's impossible for any piece of media created by a human being not to be.

He didn't really talk about NH difficulty, he just said it's fine. What he talked about is how there seems to be little to no sense of progression from week to week due to many factors: raids being tuned around players having Legendary/TF gear, bosses not allowing to bruteforce mechanics etc. This removes the cheap feeling of "being awesome", like you had in, for instance, ToT. In there, due to acquiring more and more gear you were able to completly melt bosses that you struggled on weeks before. It's a sense of achievement and progression Preach claims is gone, and he claims that it's a big factor in Mythic guild decline.

And I believe it actually affects more than Mythic, even puggers might feel the hit. Since players are usually raiding/pugging certain difficulties and rarely moving up, sticking with lfr/normal/hc, the same sense of progression tends to apply. Groups that asked for 870 are now asking for 880, and 890. The difference is - in previous expansions the 890 group would be there to steamroll the instance, killing bosses twice or 3 times as fast. Right now it's simply not happening - hence why even puggers might feel that they are just standing in place.

[Deleted]

"A guy controlled by his own emotions" is a long version of "A guy". Of course his videos are heavily influenced by their authors emotions and situation, it's impossible for any piece of media created by a human being not to be.

He didn't really talk about NH difficulty, he just said it's fine. What he talked about is how there seems to be little to no sense of progression from week to week due to many factors: raids being tuned around players having Legendary/TF gear, bosses not allowing to bruteforce mechanics etc. This removes the cheap feeling of "being awesome", like you had in, for instance, ToT. In there, due to acquiring more and more gear you were able to completly melt bosses that you struggled on weeks before. It's a sense of achievement and progression Preach claims is gone, and he claims that it's a big factor in Mythic guild decline.

And I believe it actually affects more than Mythic, even puggers might feel the hit. Since players are usually raiding/pugging certain difficulties and rarely moving up, sticking with lfr/normal/hc, the same sense of progression tends to apply. Groups that asked for 870 are now asking for 880, and 890. The difference is - in previous expansions the 890 group would be there to steamroll the instance, killing bosses twice or 3 times as fast. Right now it's simply not happening - hence why even puggers might feel that they are just standing in place.

Preach videos used to be guides, he kept his opinion out of it.

They're now opinion videos near exclusively.

Why? 'cause talking for ten mins takes a lot less effort.

[Diggy]

Outside of big legacy videos, preach resembles a click bait now. 4 videos about legendaries; 2-3 about difficulty of rolling based on opinion of his mate... Borijg at this point and highly subjective

[Deleted]

It's because of the flat gear curve and high levels of gear at the start of Nighthold, hardly because of boss mechanics. If a boss has 100M hp, and your DPS has increased by 20% compared to 5 weeks ago, you are going to kill the boss 0-20% faster. You can't deny simple math.

While Skorpyron has a case, because a lot of damage is loaded in 3 burst windows, even there you deal more damage when he has his DR and more damage in the burst phases.
The only time when DPS does not influence kill times is when you have phases that last a fixed time and cannot be influenced by dealing more damage. There are some phases like this in NH (Tichondrius, Elisande transitions) but they are a small % of the total fight time.

Even Preach his argument that, for example on Spellblade, that a lot of time is spent on non-boss enemies, is illogical because HP is fixed and you are killing those faster than you did.

If I look at killtimes in my guild, they have dropped compared to when we started Mythic but not significantly so because our gear/power upgrades weren't so substantial since the opening day of Mythic.
Heroic killtimes decreased a bit more, but even on that level we simply did not have the gear improvements we saw in previous expansions (because of Legendaries, Titanforging and 54 traits).

[Deleted]

Preach videos used to be guides, he kept his opinion out of it.

They're now opinion videos near exclusively.

Why? 'cause talking for ten mins takes a lot less effort.

^ This, this right here. His "content" consists of subjective opinion. Stick a webcam in front of any player and ask then to discuss the game and you'd get exactly the same "quality" of commentary. His presentation is bad, his stuff is barely structured, and overall he puts very little effort into it.

Plus it's offputiing and more than a little sad to watch a balding and overweight englishman approaching middle age while trying so desperately to pretend he's a Westside gangsta.

"HOLLA BALLERZ" ... no. Just no. Give it up already, you're embarassing yourself.

[Kirbypro]

^ This, this right here. His "content" consists of subjective opinion. Stick a webcam in front of any player and ask then to discuss the game and you'd get exactly the same "quality" of commentary. His presentation is bad, his stuff is barely structured, and overall he puts very little effort into it.

Plus it's offputiing and more than a little sad to watch a balding and overweight englishman approaching middle age while trying so desperately to pretend he's a Westside gangsta.

"HOLLA BALLERZ" ... no. Just no. Give it up already, you're embarassing yourself.

You can hate on somebody all you want with your asinine baseless comments and your dirty spineless personal attacks.

Preach put in the effort to make content for us and he will have my respect 100%, not cretins like you.