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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Farath View Post
    My stats for MoP world bosses are:-

    Sha - 950 kills before it dropped
    Nalak - 1100 kill before it dropped
    Galleon - 3300 kills before I got weak and bought it from the BMAH
    Oondasta - Currently sitting at around 1100 kills

    As far as I'm concerned, it's all just RNG with no such bug being involved at all.
    Interesting, if you get past 1.365 we have a new record of someone who is certainly not bugged (because you got sha and nalak and the loot system is the same for all 4 bosses, if 2 can drop, so can the other 2) and didn't get oonda yet, we'll see.

    Coconut, makes a lot of sense what you said; I myself only started farming when it became 15 mins respawn, I managed to get so many kills so quickly cause I started from 46 chars and ended up at 81 (2 full accounts minus level 1s here and there as goldkeepers and a couple of twinks), the only thing you said I don't agree with is the drop rate: it's not only guildox, what do you tell me about "top mounts" website? 0,9% have oonda, 0,4% galleon, 0,3% sha, 0,3% nalak, and those can also be bought from bmah, oonda can't, is this website also wrong?

    Hate to be that guy, but remember the legendary bug?
    Yeah, RNG is more often than not RNG. But there can be bugs.
    Just saying!
    This one is also interesting, bugs can indeed happen and I recently came across one where SOME players on SOME chars get experience from most legion treasures, others don't, so if this were bugged it wouldn't be the only case!

    But having said this I absolutely hope you who say it's not bugged are right, and I will obviously do it with 81 chars always, it's very enjoying to do tbh when you have access to every single crz in the game (20 of them at least) and takes away only 5h a week, only thing that isn't fun is when it never drops on any char on any week and you are the one (or one of the 2) with most kills in the world and you have 60% more kills than anyone you heard of who managed to get it, but I know this alone isn't enough to be sure it's a bug, I had huolon after 220 kills, have a friend who needed 351 and read of someone with 552.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Esploratore View Post
    Coconut, makes a lot of sense what you said; I myself only started farming when it became 15 mins respawn, I managed to get so many kills so quickly cause I started from 46 chars and ended up at 81 (2 full accounts minus level 1s here and there as goldkeepers and a couple of twinks), the only thing you said I don't agree with is the drop rate: it's not only guildox, what do you tell me about "top mounts" website? 0,9% have oonda, 0,4% galleon, 0,3% sha, 0,3% nalak, and those can also be bought from bmah, oonda can't, is this website also wrong?
    I'm not saying it's impossible for Oondasta to have a different drop rate, but that sort of list is not a good indicator of drop rates. Even with a very large sample size, there will be a lot of variance with the extremely rare things.

    Imagine you take 10.000 players. How many of these mounts are in that sample? 5 of each, on average? 10 of each? And that is presuming those players actually killed these bosses at least once, with a random sample some might not have (30-50% didn't, according to the same site), so it's probably less on average. Now, with variance some will be lower than average and some higher. You'll find maybe 3 Shas, 4 Nalaks, 5 galleons and 9 oondastas in that sample of 10.000 players, and that's good enough for rankings, but not to estimate the drop rate. You need a lot more individual owners of each mount, and their number of kills, to accurately estimate that.

    Just compare some of the the top entrances on worldofwargraphs with the old guildox to see the effects of variance. Worldofwargraphs has the Bronze Drake at 79%, Guildox had it at 100%. And that's the most owned mount. Brown Camel, Guildox had it at 79%, on Worldofwargraphs it dropped to 46%. Did the mounts magically vanish, or did the sample shift?

    The sample on guildox is active max lvl players at the end of MoP, so many of them have the easy to get mounts from previous expansion. The sample on Worldofwargraphs is active lvl 110 players in early Legion, perhaps many cyclical players who aren't interested in collecting mounts (cuz they don't even have the Bronze Drake), and might have skipped previous expansions, which further reduces the chance of world boss mounts being represented in the sample.

    Besides that, there are plenty active raiders on that list, because it was a period with an active tier. Raiders may or may not be interested in collecting mounts, but if they were going to farm a world boss in MoP, they were most likely to farm Oondasta, because it gave the best gear relative to the tier it was introduced in (always thunderforged items), so raiders on the list who didn't specifically go for mounts are more likely to have Oondasta than the other three anyway.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Esploratore View Post
    I have around 2.200 kills plus 2.200 rolls for a total of 4.400 total attempts on oondasta and no drop and a total of around 5.600 attempts across all mop world bosses mounts and not one dropped, I did so few attempts on the other 3 cause I planned to cap them on BMAH (and did).
    Last I heard bonus rolls don't work on MoP mounts. Unless they changed it. I remember everyone complaining since they told us mid/end expansion

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Last I heard bonus rolls don't work on MoP mounts. Unless they changed it. I remember everyone complaining since they told us mid/end expansion
    they don't work on raid and dungeon mouns. They do work on the world boss mounts.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esploratore View Post
    Hi, I'm trying to get oondasta mount, already made a thread before asking about the drop rate but now I have some doubts about this (and other 3 mop world bosses mounts) working properly, as in:

    I have around 2.200 kills plus 2.200 rolls for a total of 4.400 total attempts on oondasta and no drop and a total of around 5.600 attempts across all mop world bosses mounts and not one dropped, I did so few attempts on the other 3 cause I planned to cap them on BMAH (and did).


    Why do I think there could be a bug with this?


    -Oondasta based on websites and on A LOT of people I know who got it in less than 100 kills seems to be at least 3 times better drop than the other 3 mop world bosses, so I'm not considering it a 1 in 2.000 drop, but like 1 in 666; if you say "if rarity says 1 in 2.000 it's 1 in 2.000" I'd like to remind you rarity lists infinite timereaver as 1 in 100 by default when it's like 1 in 2.000 or even 4.000, so rarity isn't always right!
    -Remember in early August blizzard finally fixed the respawn of oondasta and galleon to 15 mins? In that month I started seriously farming it with all 46 high levels I had at the time and groups were still possible to make since we were level 100s, and I've seen 4 mounts drop for other players in my groups in that time, 1 the 6th august, 2 the 10th august and 1 the 27th august, this doesn't really look to me like a 1 in 2.000 drop with 5 people per group average!
    -Oondasta, sha, nalak, galleon have a unique way to drop: you don't loot these bosses, you don't get a container and open it and the mount can be inside; in these cases if you get the mount it appears in inventory straight.
    -The max I have heard players getting oondasta mount with is 2.372 total attempts, someone here on mmo champion who posted in the "get a mount, post screenshot" thread, that is barely more than half than I did.
    -I heard of another player in the US with a similar or higher amount of attempts as mine who didn't get oondasta, and also bought all other 3 mop world bosses and never got any of them to drop.
    -So basically whoever went past 2.372 attempts never got it so far from what I read or heard.

    Why could this not be a bug?

    -An EU player had a total of 8.800 attempts before getting any of the mop world bosses mounts to drop, that's more than my combined amount, he had 2.200 on each shortly before getting his first, oondasta.
    -A friend of mine was lucky on the first 3, at least quite lucky, with oondasta 20 attempts, sha 1.200, galleon 2.900, but since then he's been trying for nalak, he has over 10.200 total attempts on it and therefore over 7.300 attempts without a single mount drop.
    -Assuming my theory of oondasta 1 in 666 drop per kills, rolls included, is correct, the one who took almost 2.400 attempts still got quite unlucky cause it's about 1.200 kills, but it would be theoretically possible that someone else gets again twice more unlucky than him, example: it took me 220 huolon kills which is quite unlucky, but someone on wow forums needed 552 which is 2,5x as much.
    -In my experience, unless this one is a bug now, I never had mounts that couldn't drop for specific accounts, I had doubts when I kept getting blazing drakes instead of a single lifebinder's handmaiden from hc deathwing, but in the end it dropped; there were bugs so far but they affected every single account.

    So these are the reasons why I doubt if there's something wrong with these mounts, though I personally only worry about oondasta since I bought the other 3; an important question is: any mount farmer out there had to do over 2.400 total attempts (including kills + rolls) on oondasta but then managed to get it?

    Or any of you went past 2.400 on oondasta and didn't get it yet but were able to get any of the other 3 mop world bosses to drop?
    Im almost sure that the mount wont drop by coins, i might by mistaken but i dont think so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrieur View Post
    they don't work on raid and dungeon mouns. They do work on the world boss mounts.
    Are you sure of it?

  6. #26
    It is confirmed that the first kill has VERY high drop rate.

    In other words, if the drop rate is 0.1% and you don't get it on the first kill, the true drop rate is 0.01% to you now.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfakennyone View Post
    Very constructive post, thanks.
    Well, hes not wrong, odds are a GM would reply with a correct / more accurate reply than anyone on this website. And recently, they've been quite good, I have been getting replies in less than 12 hours

    Its RNG at the end of the day, I myself (pitifully) gave up farming the barons mount after 300 attempts, after I was seeing the vast majority of people getting it in under 100 kills,

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrieur View Post
    they don't work on raid and dungeon mouns. They do work on the world boss mounts.
    Since when because I know people were mad about Sha of Anger not being rollable.

    I don't remember the blue post but people rolled on Sha all expansion and at the end they stated that boss mounts weren't rollable.
    Last edited by Lucetia; 2017-03-21 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #29
    I can't give you proof of 2,5k+ rolls, BUT
    I did get it on my 126th try, so maybe a confirmation for the other part of the theory. But I don't have any other MoP Wbosses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Since when because I know people were mad about Sha of Anger not being rollable.

    I don't remember the blue post but people rolled on Sha all expansion and at the end they stated that boss mounts weren't rollable.
    World bosses were always coinable, raid bosses weren't.

    if you check the comment section here, people confirm drops on coins:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=87771/re...rpent#comments
    Last edited by DustWolf; 2017-03-21 at 09:31 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DustWolf View Post
    World bosses were always coinable, raid bosses weren't.
    Where does it say this though? The last blue post said they weren't, hence the uproar when people found out all those coins they wasted on Sha of Anger when it first came out. The later ones might be, but Pandaria isn't unless something new was posted.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Where does it say this though? The last blue post said they weren't, hence the uproar when people found out all those coins they wasted on Sha of Anger when it first came out. The later ones might be, but Pandaria isn't unless something new was posted.
    I don't know about blue posts, I know that I was always coining world bosses because I knew they were coinable, can't find the source.
    If you checked the site I linked, this picture was posted for coin-proofing: http://imgur.com/WI5VWSi

    And also wowhead has it listed as "bonus rollable".

    As to "bonus loot received", I'll check my screenshots when I get home, if that's really the interaction for coin or is it for mount received, cause I know that wen I got Oondasta's, I didn't roll it.

  12. #32
    Yes, they can be bonus rolled... and it's been like this since mop. Though sha did have an issue where it couldn't drop at all for months. Might be what you're thinking of when you hear of people angry about sha of anger. (Lol)

    Proof (Screenshot belongs to Potaters, taken from the mount thread)

    http://m.imgur.com/lwC6VUu

    Notice the saddle is bonus loot.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by DustWolf View Post
    I don't know about blue posts, I know that I was always coining world bosses because I knew they were coinable, can't find the source.
    If you checked the site I linked, this picture was posted for coin-proofing: http://imgur.com/WI5VWSi

    And also wowhead has it listed as "bonus rollable".

    As to "bonus loot received", I'll check my screenshots when I get home, if that's really the interaction for coin or is it for mount received, cause I know that wen I got Oondasta's, I didn't roll it.
    Ah, they might've changed it in WoD or at the end of MoP then. I just remember the chaos that ensued from when it was originally announced.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Ah, they might've changed it in WoD or at the end of MoP then. I just remember the chaos that ensued from when it was originally announced.
    No they did not change it. First Sha and Galleon could not drop their Mounts at all and after like 3-6 months they hotfixed that in. Later they also confirmed all MOP Worldbosses Mounts can be bonus rolled (and stuff like Horridon or Elegon not).

    Proof: https://twitter.com/olandgren/status/428229005221691392

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Where does it say this though? The last blue post said they weren't, hence the uproar when people found out all those coins they wasted on Sha of Anger when it first came out. The later ones might be, but Pandaria isn't unless something new was posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Where does it say this though? The last blue post said they weren't, hence the uproar when people found out all those coins they wasted on Sha of Anger when it first came out. The later ones might be, but Pandaria isn't unless something new was posted.
    MoP-Worldbosses ARE coinable. The only Worldbossmount you can not coin is Rukhmar. I got my Sha-Mount during WoD within 200 Tries. And i obtained it by coin (could confirm this with a screenshot if needed; and there are many other proofed dropps by coin).

    B2Topic:


    I am a semi-hardcore mountfarmer and my stats are:
    - Sha: 96 Kills (got it after ~180 Kills+Coins)
    - Galleon: 381 Kills
    - Oondasta: 335 Kills
    - Nalak: 207 Kills (bought it on BMAH)
    - Rukhmar: 225
    Total: 1244
    (Stats from rarity and this tool: levelupgilde. de/tools/mountkillstats/)

    These stats are WITHOUT Coins. After MoP i used coins almost everytime. So i think i have around 1.900 Kills in total. With a recommended droppchance of 1 in 2.000 for SHA/Galleon/Nalak(/Oondasta?) i think my stats are normal. But at such a small chance (maybe 0,01%) it is most likely that you will need a few thousand kills+coins for them. And then it is still in the frame! Just imagine: there are many people getting Oondastamount in under 100 Kills (or even less). To equalize this "outlier down" in the statistics, another person (maybe you?) would need 3900 kills+coins. I know its a bad example, but thats how stastics works. Many people get it in under 100 kills, but you can't be sure to get it in 10.000 kills or more.

    Look at me: I got Sha really fast, but i am sitting on over 5.000 Timereaver kills without a mount. A friend got it on his 2nd(!) kill.

    I know this feelds bad man....but RNG is RNG ;(

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Ah, they might've changed it in WoD or at the end of MoP then. I just remember the chaos that ensued from when it was originally announced.
    You probably remember the chaos about Sha not being lootable

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Well, hes not wrong, odds are a GM would reply with a correct / more accurate reply than anyone on this website. And recently, they've been quite good, I have been getting replies in less than 12 hours

    Its RNG at the end of the day, I myself (pitifully) gave up farming the barons mount after 300 attempts, after I was seeing the vast majority of people getting it in under 100 kills,
    Honestly you have better odds of someone from this site replying correctly than a random GM. Vast majority of them have very little game knowledge at all and will answer with the basics (I think 10+ times I've had them use wowhead as their own source, as well)
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  18. #38
    Coconut: ok, you have a point too, but I will now prove to you all that oondasta has nothing to do with the drop rate the other 3 have: I will check on armory all top 100 world collectors and report here the ones (without making names, simply saying, the one in position 8 for example misses sha mount etc.) missing, even if the info I find proves you who sustain oonda has the same drop as the others right I will write them anyway, but I'm pretty sure it's not.

    It could take 10.000 kills statistically, I know, but thing is there's no one between the top collectors who needed more than 2.800 attempts (so 1.400 kills only), almost all have it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nah, unfortunately I wasn't able to get sensible info, I KNOW oonda has a better drop rate, I just am unable to prove it besides those websites because if I go look among the top 100 collectors in the world I get this situation: in total across all those collectors there are 25 oondasta missing, so basically among top collectors 75% have oondasta, 79% have sha, 82% have galleon and 86% have nalak and 96% of those collectors have at least one of the 4.

    The problem I got here obviously is that people with 365-382 mounts on armory will do everything to get hard-to-farm-mounts like these, so basically several sha, nalak and galleon here have been bought, while oondasta isn't possible to buy on BMAH, but don't think there's a way to determine who bought them or who dropped them.

    I would need less hardcore collectors for what I'm doing, don't know, people around 300 mounts, so that BMAH doesn't play as much of a role.

    However besides websites, like I said I know 7-8, maybe even more people who got oonda and none of them went above 300 kills (so around 600 attempts), only 2 of them going above 100 kills and one of them got 5 oondasta mounts in 1.000 kills, considering he got it at 300th kill and did the rest while world boss rounds were still a thing (stayed in group to do nalak and they did oonda first), that's only 1.300 attempts to get 5 mounts; lucky? No doubt, but 2 lucky drops are a thing; 5 start to be quite a decent sample.

    For this reason I was particularly surprised when I came across niixten, who had 2.200 attempts including rolls before getting oonda, and it changed a bit my idea about the drop rate, then I read of another collector here who got it at 2.372, then I found that other collector on der rat von dalaran with (recently discovered another char) 2.800 attempts.

    Now if we assume a 1 in 2.000 drop, shouldn't that mean 1 in 2.000 kills? I always thought that, if it's true I'd find it incredibly weird that not a single player got unlucky on oondasta (of those who got it); if you mean 1 in 2.000 attempts then we already start to find a few more people who got unlucky.

    And when I read "It could take 10.000 kills if unlucky" I really think it wasn't my choice to get in this situation, the reason I started farming oondasta is I always thought it had a far better drop rate than others, originally thought 1 in 400 when I started it, so I did a couple of maths and said, even if very unlucky I should be fine in a few months, I can do that, wasn't really my intention to start a farming lasting several years, that's why I always avoided world bosses so far, in fact I always considered them unobtainable for me until BMAH came along.
    Last edited by Esploratore; 2017-03-22 at 09:01 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Esploratore View Post
    I have around 2.200 kills plus 2.200 rolls for a total of 4.400 total attempts on oondasta and no drop and a total of around 5.600 attempts across all mop world bosses mounts and not one dropped, I did so few attempts on the other 3 cause I planned to cap them on BMAH (and did).
    some call it insanity, others commitment, pls quit gaming and develop a cure for cancer

    2200x5min=183,33h=7day15,33h

  20. #40
    First of all, we don't know if it's 1 in 2.000 or 1 in 1.000 or 1 in 666. These are just some numbers that players kept saying to each other since MoP and in time they became popular wisdom, sort of like people in the distant past used to believe that the Earth is flat.

    If you want to estimate the drop rate correctly, you need a relatively large sample size - not of collectors, but of actual mount drops: you take 300 Oondasta mounts, you find out how many kills it took for each one to drop, and you calculate the average. Obviously, it is impossible for us to compile this information, because even if we can find 300 ppl with the mount, we don't know how many kills they had on that account, or if they had any extra mounts drop or not.

    The only way to find out is if Blizzard tells us, but the problem is they seem reluctant to acknowledge the fact that people purposely farm these mounts. They weren't put in to be farmed, they were put in to be random and legendarily rare, something the devs thought was "cool" (but in a reward-driven mmo-rpg that is, obviously, retarded). The bosses were not designed around being farmed by max level characters 2 expansions later, hence the issues with Galleon and Oondasta in WoD and now with Sha.


    That being said, the numbers you mention are not out of the ordinary statistically. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that the drop rate is 0,1%, or one in 1.000. In that case, there is a (1 – 0,999^2.800)x100 = 94% chance that the mount would drop in 2.800 attempts. So naturally, the vast majority of people who have the mount have less than 2.800 kills. Even if the drop rate was lower, 0,05%, or 1 in 2.000, the probability of getting a drop in 2.800 attempts would be 75%, still a vast majority of participants.

    The probability of getting a mount (well, of any probabilistic event being triggered) before you reach the average number of kills is always higher than the probability of getting it after. This is because there is no upper limit on bad luck, and in the end the numbers have to balance out. If it was usual for the drop to take 5.000 attempts, the drop rate would simply not be 1 in 1.000/2.000, but much lower. Just look at how probability progresses for a 0,1% mount:

    - there is a 10% chance you get it in 100 kills.
    - there is a 26% chance you get it in 300 kills.
    - there is a 40% chance you get it in 500 kills.
    - there is a 64% chance you get it in 1000 kills (chance is higher than 50% to get it before the average).
    - there is a 90% chance you get it in 2.300 kills.
    - there is a 99% chance you get it in 4.500 kills.
    - you will never reach 100% even in a million kills.

    Do you see how the number of kills required ramp up more and more for a smaller and smaller probability increase? This means it is very, very unlikely for the mount not to drop after so many kills, but it is certainly possible, and at this point the exact number doesn't even matter, you are just super unlucky with this one mount.

    So you are looking at it the wrong way, it's not that there is a bug because you can't find people who got it in more than 2.800 attempts, it's that the situation you want to find it implies a combination of two very very very rare occurrences: a) someone having that many attempts in the relatively limited time since the boss was added in game, and b) someone being that incredibly unlucky with it*, with c) said person actually reading your post and wanting to respond being the icing on the cake.


    This is exactly why I hate mounts with such abysmally low drop rates, because the effects of being unlucky are truly retarded. It's one thing when you are unlucky with Invincible or Elegon and it takes you 450 or 600 kills, that's still only around 2 years with a reasonable number of 5 characters each week. Being unlucky with Sha or Oondasta, or any other, and farming with your regular chars, not 50 farming muppets, means you can farm for a decade or two without any results. And that's basically cruel mockery towards unlucky collectors.
    Last edited by Coconut; 2017-03-23 at 11:53 AM.

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