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  1. #1

    Holy Priest feedback for 7.2

    If you haven't seen T0oky's feedback threads on the official Class Feedback forums:

    EU: https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615053813

    US: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753406564

    Please read and post your feedback, whether you agree or disagree with his specific suggestions. Keep the threads active and in the developers' eyes. There's been quite a bit of attention paid to numerous other healers' issues while we just kind of sit in the corner quietly. Like, why exactly aren't Phyrix and Almaiesh getting any changes in 7.2 when they're overhauling so many legendaries??

    Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaand... Cosmic Ripple just got the shit nerfed out of it. But hey, that *chance* to reset the cooldown of DP, amirite?
    Last edited by Nephthysis; 2017-03-17 at 09:06 PM.

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    Don't forget we're also getting buff to our Artifact ability... will it even heal as much as Flash Heal when at 4/4 points? So that's two out of three that are largely worthless.

  3. #3
    Cosmic ripple got nerfed because it was wildly overpowered, the original numbers were almost a 30% healing boost and you could see the nerf coming from a mile away, the final value is in fact slightly higher than what i expected it to end up.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Cosmic ripple got nerfed because it was wildly overpowered, the original numbers were almost a 30% healing boost and you could see the nerf coming from a mile away, the final value is in fact slightly higher than what i expected it to end up.
    It was like a 12.5% throughput increase. Maybe 20% with the new tier bonuses. And yes we all knew it was going to get nerfed. The point is the LoT and DP traits are pure garbage. Resto druids get a gold dragon that's 90% as good as cosmic ripple AND two other good throughput traits. You don't see them getting traits for Dash or Ysera's Gift. Blizzard needs feedback to give Holy some focus and direction, because there's pretty obviously not anyone paying real attention to it at HQ.

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    They pretty much failed with healer balance so far. I don't mean in general hps, which might seem pretty close at times, but in 'desirability'. They managed to deal with Discipline, though it's hard to say it's a success. Sure, it's no longer "needed", but it has fallen into obscurity instead - with only a few players managing to play it well (in a way that was stated by Sigma as 'not really intended').

    Beyond that, Holy Paladin and Resto Shamans still reign supreme as the core of any healing team. The third spot is firmly occupied by Resto Druids, with excellent output, mobility, good tank cooldown, great raid cooldown. Monks and Priest are, once again, competing for scraps.

    Sure, it's better than HFC, seeing how tier bonuses aren't completely useless, our trinket isn't the worst garbage item in the game and we can have decent HPS at time. However, utility is still as bad as it was, Feathers are still mandatory, our raid cooldown is the only one that's both channeled and stationary *and* we have the only dumb AOE heal in the game. The fact that we manage to not be useless despite all that is impressive, though not in a good way.

    I didn't bother commenting in the actual thread, since healer issues appear to be completely ignored, with Blizzard last opinion (quite a while ago, too) stating that things are pretty much perfect. And after seeing their feedback on the tank situation, I'm not sure I want to see any update on the situation. I mean, fuck, compared to Guardian Druids complete domination, I guess the healers are perfectly balanced. And if they're going to "fix" us in the same way they "fixed" Prot Warriors, I'd prefer if they stay well away.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2017-03-18 at 04:05 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    *and* we have the only dumb AOE heal in the game.
    Not true. Power Word: Radiance is more expensive, hits less people, and is even dumber (doesn't even select injured targets).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Memento1 View Post
    Not true. Power Word: Radiance is more expensive, hits less people, and is even dumber (doesn't even select injured targets).
    PoH doesn't select injured targets either, just the 4 closest, and at least PWR prefers targets without Atonement, which is its purpose anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento1 View Post
    Not true. Power Word: Radiance is more expensive, hits less people, and is even dumber (doesn't even select injured targets).
    Power Word: Radiance is mostly used for Atonement spreading, not the healing itself. Also, it's "smart" in the sense that it avoids already existing Atonements. Still, you can change that part to "Priests have the only dumb AOE heals in the game".

  9. #9
    I know how radiance works. But since you're only using radiance to apply atonement for a damage burst that will hit everyone, why not have it apply atonement to those who will be at lower health going into that burst? It FORCES us to only use radiance for indiscriminate burst, since it indiscriminately applies. It's hard to hear another spec complaining that one of their AoE spells is dumb when our ONLY AoE spell is dumb.

    I feel for Holy, I do. PoH being dumb means it should really only be used for unavoidable damage that hurts everyone in an area. But Disc is in the same situation, it costs more, it takes more prep, and doesn't have nice spot-healing strengths too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento1 View Post
    I feel for Holy, I do. PoH being dumb means it should really only be used for unavoidable damage that hurts everyone in an area. But Disc is in the same situation, it costs more, it takes more prep, and doesn't have nice spot-healing strengths too.
    Thing is, Sigma already commented on Disc a while ago. I guess they're aiming for bigger changes, probably in 7.2.5. For Holy - and any other healing spec, I guess - there's been nothing. So they know there's something wrong with Disc, but everything else is supposedly perfect.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Thing is, Sigma already commented on Disc a while ago. I guess they're aiming for bigger changes, probably in 7.2.5. For Holy - and any other healing spec, I guess - there's been nothing. So they know there's something wrong with Disc, but everything else is supposedly perfect.
    They have commented on other healers recently: HPal, Disc, MWMonk (a lot), RDruid legos, and Drape of Shame. That's why i'm trying to bring attention to Tooky's thread now while it might actually make a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthysis View Post
    They have commented on other healers recently: HPal, Disc, MWMonk (a lot), RDruid legos, and Drape of Shame. That's why i'm trying to bring attention to Tooky's thread now while it might actually make a difference.
    You should appeal to US posters more, I guess Seeing how it started on EU - and we pretty much accepted that devs barely care about our forums - I don't really see blues caring a lot.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthysis View Post
    It was like a 12.5% throughput increase. Maybe 20% with the new tier bonuses. And yes we all knew it was going to get nerfed. The point is the LoT and DP traits are pure garbage. Resto druids get a gold dragon that's 90% as good as cosmic ripple AND two other good throughput traits. You don't see them getting traits for Dash or Ysera's Gift. Blizzard needs feedback to give Holy some focus and direction, because there's pretty obviously not anyone paying real attention to it at HQ.
    have you actually looked at how often people dip beyond 35%, and have your rejuv or wg on them?

    cosmic ripple is still a lot better than new druid gold tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    have you actually looked at how often people dip beyond 35%, and have your rejuv or wg on them?

    cosmic ripple is still a lot better than new druid gold tbh.
    Don't Druids have Rejuv on almost everything anyway? Sure, Cosmic Ripple is a good trait, but it doesn't improve it in the areas where spec suffers, like mobility or mana. Compared to that, Druids don't get a major boost, but steady improvements to stuff that already works well, including mana conservation. That last part being something that both Priest specs would appreciate.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2017-03-19 at 12:33 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthysis View Post
    PoH doesn't select injured targets either, just the 4 closest, and at least PWR prefers targets without Atonement, which is its purpose anyway.
    Prayer of Healing DOES select injured targets. It just isn't a hyper-smart heal, which means it will not differentiate from a target who is 99% hp and the target who is 1% hp.


    To give you an example, if there are 5 targets at 100% HP, 5 targets at 50% HP, and 5 targets at 1% HP and you cast Prayer of Healing on 1 of the 50% HP players then your alternate targets for Prayer of Healing will NOT heal the 5 players at 100% HP. It will prioritize a target nearest the main target, though. But if there are 5 targets (PoH only heals 4 besides the main target) that are equidistant from the main target, made up of three 50% HP targets and two 1% HP targets, it will not prioritize the 1% HP targets- it will simply randomize from the available choices. But it will NEVER heal a 100% HP target over a 1%-99% HP target.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Power Word: Radiance is mostly used for Atonement spreading, not the healing itself. Also, it's "smart" in the sense that it avoids already existing Atonements. Still, you can change that part to "Priests have the only dumb AOE heals in the game".
    And that is exactly what makes it "dumb" from a design point of view, since it only looks for atonement it is "smart" if you only ever want to use it to setup your big AoE burst, but for all other purposes it is "dumb". If those who already have the atonenement buff need healing then you wouldn't use it anyway, and if those who do not have atonement need healing then it will be useless unless there are only 3 left.

    If it did priorize injured targets without atonement over uninjured without atonement over those with atonement then it could be used outside the burst preperation and lessen the fixtation of the spec on those phases somewhat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Don't Druids have Rejuv on almost everything anyway? Sure, Cosmic Ripple is a good trait, but it doesn't improve it in the areas where spec suffers, like mobility or mana. Compared to that, Druids don't get a major boost, but steady improvements to stuff that already works well, including mana conservation. That last part being something that both Priest specs would appreciate.
    how does increasing your total healing not improve your mana...?

    regardless, whining about other class golden dragons when you have a very good one is a bit questionable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    how does increasing your total healing not improve your mana...?

    regardless, whining about other class golden dragons when you have a very good one is a bit questionable.
    I'm not complaining about other classes new traits. I'm complaining about issues with Holy, which aren't being dealt with. A good golden trait is welcome. Two bad traits accompanying it - not so much. Same with still "needing" to spec Feathers while everyone gets baseline mobility? Random chance to reset personal cooldown? Erm...

    Besides, I'm tired of relying on Moonkins and Retribution. Nothing is being done to fix that, for priests or any other healer. They gave a tiny nerf to innervate way back and that's it. Of course it's not Holy exclusive problem, but again - nothing. When 10% increased mana regen - which is barely stronger than a single potion in medium length fight - is the "best" talent, something is wrong with the system.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2017-03-20 at 11:17 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    I'm not complaining about other classes new traits. I'm complaining about issues with Holy, which aren't being dealt with. A good golden trait is welcome. Two bad traits accompanying it - not so much. Same with still "needing" to spec Feathers while everyone gets baseline mobility? Random chance to reset personal cooldown? Erm...

    Besides, I'm tired of relying on Moonkins and Retribution. Nothing is being done to fix that, for priests or any other healer. They gave a tiny nerf to innervate way back and that's it. Of course it's not Holy exclusive problem, but again - nothing. When 10% increased mana regen - which is barely stronger than a single potion in medium length fight - is the "best" talent, something is wrong with the system.
    I mean if the boss is above 5-6 minutes, enlightenment is better than a leytorrent.

    Besides, I don't see why this is a problem? I mean why take issue with a hps increasing talent, and not any other hps increasing talent? Like really whats the difference between 10% more spells and a buff to your spells...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    I mean if the boss is above 5-6 minutes, enlightenment is better than a leytorrent.

    Besides, I don't see why this is a problem? I mean why take issue with a hps increasing talent, and not any other hps increasing talent? Like really whats the difference between 10% more spells and a buff to your spells...?
    Come on, you play Disc. You're not going to tell me that mana system is working fine. Innervate is a monster. Wisdom is nowhere near as strong, but still extremely powerful. Getting another Leytorrent is a joke when compared to that, but still a best option. It's the first expansion where mana regen is designed to be pretty much static and yet it hugely buffed external mana sources.

    Of course, fixing it would require a massive rework and I don't really expect it to happen before 7.2.5 - if at all in Legion. Some minor bandaid wouldn't hurt. As it is now, every raid you pretty much decide which guy is going to be the "best" healer, by assigning him the most important mana buffs. It's really awkward. The fact that I pretty much use Legendary Cloak to reset mana potion and get free casting for 20 seconds is awkward. In case of Disc, reliance on external mana sources screws "average" people over and even blues realized that it might be gaining just a little too much from that.

    In general, I don't think any of those two threads was about "well, we get Cosmic Ripple and Druids get X! how dare they". Cosmic Ripple is a good thing and I welcome it. It doesn't change the fact that there are still many issues with the spec. Maybe it will be strong enough to mask some of them, but it won't help with mobility.

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