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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! TheramoreIsTheBomb's Avatar
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    Horde Survival Hunter Club [7.2 Spec Discussion]

    We are the rare, the few, the proud, the melee Hunters.

    Survival is in a pretty good spot right now in 7.2 and this thread will be used to discuss Survival since there wasn't a thread up for it.
    "We have forgotten what makes us strong."

  2. #2
    Should become ranged spec again <3

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Should become ranged spec again <3
    Should stay melee <3
    MM should have adopted old survival abilities as talents correctly

  4. #4
    SV is in a good spot but faces the issue that other melee do it better. There's a vicious circle/paradox that Hinters are having to contend with right now. 1st: for some reason, Blizzard wants to keep Hunters roughly middle of the pack in terms of damage, as anytime a buff has come along to BM/MM, it's quickly followed by a nerf. Obviously, this is conspiracy theory, however there is some credit to the idea.
    Blizzqrd also wants the specs to be roughly the same in thruput to give players a choice in which spec to play.
    So, here comes the paradox: If Blizz buffs SV to keep up with other melee, they then need to follow suit to buff BM/MM to perform the same as SV. If they do this, they move BM/MM up to just behind if not further ahead of mages and locks right now. If they buff BM/MM, they have to buff SV (something slightly easier to do as SV will still sit behind other melee). Therefore, they can not buff one without the other yet they seem to not want the rdps portion of the class to be higher than middle which means SV will not gen able to compete with the other melee without making BM/MM players feel forced to start playing melee.
    That said, I love new SV (even though I miss old) and have a lot of fun playing it. Waiting to see next tier with the double down aspect on Flanking Strike and if we'll drop WotM to give FS priority.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuhnta View Post
    Should stay melee <3
    MM should have adopted old survival abilities as talents correctly
    Nope. Staying melee = condemnation to niche unpopularity forever. Not sustainable.

    Don't jam two specs into one. There's a reason we have Feral and Guardian now instead of just Feral.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Nope. Staying melee = condemnation to niche unpopularity forever. Not sustainable.

    Don't jam two specs into one. There's a reason we have Feral and Guardian now instead of just Feral.
    Forever is blatantly false, as only time will tell. I will say that as of now, it is unpopular, where a month to a year from now it could become one of the highest played specs, it that has been discussed to death.
    I agree with 2 specs into one theory, but if done right, they could have designed talents to replace AiS with ES (old), WB with BA, apply SS with AS, etc. with a redesign of what Weapon traits affect hat based on choices like they do now. It would not have been easy, and even with "best" builds, people still could have kept old SV.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Forever is blatantly false, as only time will tell.
    Time has told. If being the best-performing and least-legendary-dependent hunter spec for months didn't save the spec, nothing will.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Time has told.
    As time has not ended and the spec is still around. So time has told nothing other than what has been, not what will be.

  9. #9
    Just ignore anything fpic has to say. All he does is whine and complain about his toy being taken away like a child.

    Back on topic, I am loving SV. It was a little rough getting use to the rotation, but once you have it l, it's easy to follow. One thing I would ask though, is how others start you rotation. Here is mine:

    Pre-pot
    Harpoon
    Crows while in flight
    Aspect of the eagle
    Mongoose till six stacks
    Fury of the eagle
    Then Mongoose till buff is gone.

    I find this to be the most rewarding method. I will say after the opener is when I start to maintain dots along with getting as many six stacks as possible.

    I've hit over I mil with my opener and sustain around 600k dps with my current build.

  10. #10
    I was just thinking about opening a thread like this as it's been a long time since I've seen a SV theorycrafting thread.

    I think this thread was made to talk about how SV plays, you know, mechanics, playstyle, rotation etc. Bashing the spec for being melee already has a thread called "Does anyone miss old survival?", so please keep the hate in there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathromance View Post
    Just ignore anything fpic has to say. All he does is whine and complain about his toy being taken away like a child.

    Back on topic, I am loving SV. It was a little rough getting use to the rotation, but once you have it l, it's easy to follow. One thing I would ask though, is how others start you rotation. Here is mine:

    Pre-pot
    Harpoon
    Crows while in flight
    Aspect of the eagle
    Mongoose till six stacks
    Fury of the eagle
    Then Mongoose till buff is gone.

    I find this to be the most rewarding method. I will say after the opener is when I start to maintain dots along with getting as many six stacks as possible.

    I've hit over I mil with my opener and sustain around 600k dps with my current build.
    I always put dots up first, then start spamming mongoose bite and if there is a little time when I'm out of charges then I refresh lacerate. I only do this if I hit 6 stacks already, if not then in this situation I cast flanking strike to get 6.

    With this opener I usually get around 1,2-1,4m. That could be just the item level difference though. I don't think dots really affect SV's burst as you have to build up anyways, I've tried the opener without dots too but in the long run putting them up at start was more rewarding.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by BiggyZable View Post
    I think this thread was made to talk about how SV plays, you know, mechanics, playstyle, rotation etc. Bashing the spec for being melee already has a thread called "Does anyone miss old survival?", so please keep the hate in there.
    Saying "Survival should be ranged again" is constructive feedback for the spec because it was much more successful when it was ranged and therefore it is a good strategy for getting Survival out of the hole it finds itself in in Legion. Survival's biggest issue this expansion is not it's mechanics, playstyle, or rotation; the biggest issue by far is the fact that it is melee.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Saying "Survival should be ranged again" is constructive feedback for the spec because it was much more successful when it was ranged and therefore it is a good strategy for getting Survival out of the hole it finds itself in in Legion. Survival's biggest issue this expansion is not it's mechanics, playstyle, or rotation; the biggest issue by far is the fact that it is melee.
    I think you misunderstood me a bit. I meant that if someone wants to read some information or ask questions about survival because they are new to it, or just want to talk about the spec in general, share experiences with others, this is the kind of thread they look for. In this context, saying survival should be ranged is not a constructive feedback, because they won't have any more knowledge about the spec after reading it. It may be constructive feedbck towards Blizz at the end of legion, but not now.

    You loved the old SV, I get it, it got revamped, you don't like it, I get it, everyone who reads one of your posts gets it. All I'm asking for is to keep this out of THIS thread, because it exists for another reason.

    Survival's biggest issue is not that it's melee. If you would have nearly the same spec, same mechanics, but ranged, it wouldn't be any more popular than this. This is due to the fact that even SV players admit(at leastIi guess so), that the mongoose mehcanic feels a bit weird with dot and the spec really has a lot of buttons. But this is a style I, and many more who play it like.

  13. #13
    Hey guys, chicken owl here. Contemplating on making a hunter and I always liked weird specs. Used to play BM when MM and SV where the top and I'd still compete ok and they were hell'a fun.
    I guess Melee Hunter is very weird and fits right there. I've also seen it do well in raids, but what about M+? What about AoE, how does it fair there?

    Thanks for the help.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    Hey guys, chicken owl here. Contemplating on making a hunter and I always liked weird specs. Used to play BM when MM and SV where the top and I'd still compete ok and they were hell'a fun.
    I guess Melee Hunter is very weird and fits right there. I've also seen it do well in raids, but what about M+? What about AoE, how does it fair there?

    Thanks for the help.
    Survival has extreme burst AoE with butchery, I also happen to have the legendary chest, which makes it even more ridiculous. Serpent sting might be useful in some aoe scenarios where there are 4-5 longer living targets, but I haven't encountered one of these yet. In M+ go with Butchery, Animal Instincts and Expert trapper. This build is easy to play, and performs really good in M+.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Saying "Survival should be ranged again" is constructive feedback for the spec because it was much more successful when it was ranged and therefore it is a good strategy for getting Survival out of the hole it finds itself in in Legion. Survival's biggest issue this expansion is not it's mechanics, playstyle, or rotation; the biggest issue by far is the fact that it is melee.

    How about you spam that shit in the other thread? This thread isn't supposed to give you some place to vent your whiny thoughts.
    This thread is, rather obviously, about rotations, min maxxing n' stuff.

    You got your "Who wants Old Survival back?" thread. Go there.


    Quote Originally Posted by BiggyZable View Post
    I always put dots up first, then start spamming mongoose bite and if there is a little time when I'm out of charges then I refresh lacerate. I only do this if I hit 6 stacks already, if not then in this situation I cast flanking strike to get 6.
    Shouldn't you always try to get as many mongooses out as possible? Especially at 6 stacks? So Flanking > Lacerate imho?
    Last edited by KrayZee; 2017-04-09 at 09:15 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    How about you spam that shit in the other thread? This thread isn't supposed to give you some place to vent your whiny thoughts.
    This thread is, rather obviously, about rotations, min maxxing n' stuff.

    You got your "Who wants Old Survival back?" thread. Go there.




    Shouldn't you always try to get as many mongooses out as possible? Especially at 6 stacks? So Flanking > Lacerate imho?
    It is flanking>lacerate , but sometimes I get a gcd to refresh lacerate, for example if flanking is on cd and I got no charges. This only happens when you are very unlucky with the MB procs, so that's pretty rare. Though if you lacerate on 0 charges and flanking after, you don't lose a lot, since MB got the charge system, so not using the first charge instantly isn't that bad. Another thing to note is that this is only relevant when AotE expired, since during it you will be getting MBs anyway.

    Oh and I messed up with the stacks thing in my previous post. Should be the other way around To use the 4pc to the max, when I got 5 stacks(and 1-2 charges), I refresh lacerate, and then continue to spam MB until the end of the buff. If I got 3 charges I'm going for MB ofc.

  17. #17
    I am ranked first as survival(my other raiding spec) on my server at my itemlevel.

    I am also the only one

    Survival is nice, my mainspec is MM but its nice with some variety. Going as surv on ST fights, but only got chest and belt as surv-spesific items, and only legs and helm as shared. Do decently on most fights tho, bit clunky with the trap placement and such(ops I placed it on the opposite side of where the boss is) but all about practice
    Okay, so I am gonna trap the blu..."FOR KAZ MODAAAAN"

  18. #18
    Does any one know if AI does more dmg than WotM with the new Golden trait? I got used to WotM but at hasty fights I sometimes lose my buffstacks..

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    How about you spam that shit in the other thread? This thread isn't supposed to give you some place to vent your whiny thoughts.
    This thread is, rather obviously, about rotations, min maxxing n' stuff.
    You came to that thread to tell us all that we were wrong for preferring ranged Survival.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44782166

    As did you, @Eapoe

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44641821

    Why should you be afforded a level of respect that you are not willing to hold for us in return?

    And yes, I will stop posting in this thread, but I had to leave with this point: this is yet another example of Survival hunters in Legion expecting (and receiving) preferential treatment. From the initial changing of the spec from ranged to melee at the expense of long-time hunters who preferred it to be ranged, to the constant demand for further buffs and developer attention despite now performing better than the other two specs and having received the lion's share of Legion's new Hunter mechanics.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! TheramoreIsTheBomb's Avatar
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    I can't really play any melee [dps] spec other than survival, the others are just not as fun imo. Havoc feels like playing the game on cheat codes, Ret is a bit clunky. I may try out assin or Sub, I have a sub at 65 and they're fun but I don't know how fun they are at max level/artifact.
    "We have forgotten what makes us strong."

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