What is your opinion of the Raids in Legion so far?

[Zorachus]

I'm a casual Raider, only doing partial heroic NH, never a Mythic guy. But just want your opinion on the Legion Raids so far, compared to previous WoW Raids.

My opinion so far would be;

- Emerald Nightmare = meh, whatever, it's ok.
- ToV = I like that it's quick and short, but it's easily forgettable
- Nighthold = meh, whatever again. Don't love, don't hate it.

To me there are only a few classic killer Raids that last the test of time; Firelands was amazing, ICC is an all time classic, Black Temple, Hellfire C is really cool.

I guess come the next expansion, will you be looking to run any of these Legion Raids for fun ? I won't, except for the DK Tier 19 Mythic set, other than that, these Legion Raids so far, just seem ok, nothing amazing or super cool.

I like Raids like Firelands, that when you enter, you have a wide variety to chose from where ya want to go. Your not pigeon hold into specific area or on rails where to go. I like Firelands being open. Would love to see more like that, and less like the crappy SoO MoP garbage.

[Deleted]

Really enjoyed EN. The fight were interesting, although its ashame that Xavius mythic was not hard at all, our guild killed it on 5th attempt with our druid healer tanking the boss at 10% hp left. Pretty funny kill. But fights like illgynoth and cenarius i really enjoyed them. You felt like you were progressing each week with EN. ToV not so much - most guilds were still clearing EN mythic when this came out, also it came out over Christmas imo not many guilds are active.

Nighthold - Boring, big, no character progress but it has some cool fights like Starbro. I feel the main problem with NH is that fights do not get shorter in mythic. When u kill them over and over, surely you want to make your character stronger and burst down bossess, get that epic loot but its a known fact this isnt happening in NH. Have a look at this video from Preach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YLx62dih4 go 11min onwards.

[Alvito]

EN was okay in heroic and mythic. The gear was sadly lack luster for far too many specs/classes. Hard to get excited about raiding when your bis list is mostly dungeon gear. The final boss being far easier then 2 or 3 of the lower bosses was a stain on the raid also.

ToV was pretty boring and forgettable in heroic. Mythic was a nice step up Helya is still a good fight now. Of course with 3 bosses and classes changing during the raid again lack luster loot.

NH heroic was disappointing, far too easy. Mythic on the other hand is a monstrous leap forward in challenge after Trilliax and then another big jump from Star Augur, Elisande and Gul'dan. The tuning is all over the place in there, far too wide of a skill and gear gap from boss to boss.

The most disappointing is Blizzard saying last week that ToS wont be out for a few months. I didn't expect it instantly, but NH is not good enough to last that long.

[Zorachus]

Patch 7.2 is ok and all, but if we have 2 months until ToS Raid opens, that's a quite awhile, 7.2 will get stale quick.

And on another topic, what do players do that don't Raid ? Curious what's the % of players in legion right now, that just don't Raid current content period, compared to active Raiders in the game ?

[Onikaroshi]

Patch 7.2 is ok and all, but if we have 2 months until ToS Raid opens, that's a quite awhile, 7.2 will get stale quick.

And on another topic, what do players do that don't Raid ? Curious what's the % of players in legion right now, that just don't Raid current content period, compared to active Raiders in the game ?

Historically its been about 20% of the player base who raids (within the last few xpacs). And Tomb won't be out til after the 11 week questline finishes, so don't expect it before June 20th. They want every raid to last 4-5 months and June 20th is around 5 months (almost exactly actually) from when NH released.

[Zorachus]

Historically its been about 20% of the player base who raids (within the last few xpacs). And Tomb won't be out til after the 11 week questline finishes, so don't expect it before June 20th. They want every raid to last 4-5 months and June 20th is around 5 months (almost exactly actually) from when NH released.

Only 20% of the current player base Raids ? Holy cow, I thought it was the opposite, with like 80% of the players Raiding.

So if 80% do not Raid, what do they do in this game ? Really the only way to gear up is through Raiding, or of course Mythic +'s, but I assume the ones not Raiding, probably also not running M+ either ?

So if 80% aren't Raiding or M+'ing, what are they doing ?

[Onikaroshi]

Only 20% of the current player base Raids ? Holy cow, I thought it was the opposite, with like 80% of the players Raiding.

So if 80% do not Raid, what do they do in this game ? Really the only way to gear up is through Raiding, or of course Mythic +'s, but I assume the ones not Raiding, probably also not running M+ either ?

So if 80% aren't Raiding or M+'ing, what are they doing ?

Always wondered that myself. We had a person in a raiding guild back in WoD who only farmed, that's all they did, they never raided, did dungeons, anything. One day they would farm herbs, one day they would farm fish, and so on.

I guess some people only level, some people only quest, about an equal amount of people who raid only do pvp, etc. You'd be surprised.

Oh, and there is definitely a portion who only do dungeons at varying difficulties.

[Squirl]

Xavius is really the only outright terrible boss; he was easier on Mythic than on Heroic. Mechanically, I think bosses as a whole have been great, but the tuning has been necessarily terrible because of other systems (namely AP, Legendaries, and Titanforging) in Legion.

EN was way too easy because all the gear and AP you could farm from Mythic+ let you overgear the place before it came out.

ToV was tuned with this in mind and Guarm essentially required 35 when it was very, very hard to get. Helya required 35+, BiS legendaries on the majority of the raid (when most people still only had 3-5 max), and a very specific comp. It should have been released in its post-nerf state if they intended for more than a handful of guilds to kill it; the DPS checks were insane pre-nerf, and still very difficult post-nerf. NH also came out way too soon to give guilds much of a chance to complete ToV pre-NH or much of a break before progression began once again.

NH has been similar: basically every boss after the first 3 is a hard DPS check that expects you to have 54 on the entire raid, BiS legendaries on the majority of the raid, and a progressively higher ilvl which is higher than the gear the raid drops (thus requiring TF luck and H/N NH / m+ grinding). Class tuning was also really, really bad. Why does a MM Hunter with the wrong legendaries do half the DPS of an Aff Lock with the best ones? I've never hit enrage or missed DPS checks as much as we did in NH. Every single first kill from 4/10 onwards was either after enrage or within seconds of it.

Farm barely got easier until this patch hit too because all our weapons were 54, you hit what was essentially "max gear" so quickly thanks to TF loot from lower difficulties and m+, and legendaries just trickled in every few weeks, and it was unlikely they were even an upgrade because you wanted 2 or 3 out of 10+ options. If you already had them, your DPS won't go up from new ones. If you didn't have them, you were unlikely to get them. For some classes, the difference between BiS and anything else was MASSIVE (like Mut; I gained 100k DPS in one day with Mantle + DoS). Even still, there are people in my guild with 9 legendaries that do not have 1 or more that would be large upgrades. There was very little reliable power gain after the first few weeks of farming NH on Normal, Heroic, and bosses you could on Mythic.

This has been the worst expansion to date for the overall experience of Mythic raiding guilds. It shows too: I haven't seen this many guilds die and had so many friends quit since the death of 10man raiding.

I still have some hope for ToS. I don't think it's coming out too fast like NH did (though 7.2 did). Legendaries seem to drop much more commonly and if you've been playing a semi-hardcore amount, you should have all of them for one spec by the time ToS opens. We have plently of time before ToS to get Concordance of Legionfall and it may be weak enough that you don't need x points in it to kill x boss, unlike the previous "paragon" traits. Hopefully bosses will not be tuned with it in mind at all and that will not make them too easy if you went nuts and got like 20 points, but also give us an avenue to soft nerf content as time goes on (which gear used to do). To fix the gear part of the issue, all they would have to do is make the hardest content give the best gear again; cap titanforging to 15 ilvl below ToS Mythic. Not only would that allow raiders to progress their character purely by raiding, which is how the game has been forever, that would also help fix the coming issue of NH 2pc + ToS 4pc and having to continue to farm for TF NH trinkets (like DoS, CoF, Metronome, Whispers, etc.). Hopefully they just end up nerfing NH tier and trinkets so it's not an issue at all.

[melodramocracy]

Non mythic type here: They're all pretty solid so far, but years from now I doubt many people will be talking any of them with the reverence some other raids receive. We shall see. Maybe ToS will change all that.

[Deleted]

The overall experience of Nighthold is considerably worse than it could be given the great encounter design itself.
All in all a solid raid that probably won't get much praise in the future.

[Bugg]

7/10.
Ulduar was a 10 for me.

[Deleted]

3/10

allmost all the bosses are boring af as a meele. simply st nuke boss and let all the machenics hit the ranges...

[rda]

I am not a mythic raider, and maybe mythic raiders see something I don't, but here's a point of view from the outside of mythic raids:

Legion raids are nothing terribly spectacular. ToS especially is completely forgettable. I remember fights for Lei Shen, Alysrazor, Nefarian, The Lich King, Professor Putricide, Mimiron, Thaddius, etc, now after many years. I don't think I will remember any of the fights in the Legion raids we had.

[kamuimac]

I'm a casual Raider, only doing partial heroic NH, never a Mythic guy. But just want your opinion on the Legion Raids so far, compared to previous WoW Raids.

My opinion so far would be;

- Emerald Nightmare = meh, whatever, it's ok.
- ToV = I like that it's quick and short, but it's easily forgettable
- Nighthold = meh, whatever again. Don't love, don't hate it.

To me there are only a few classic killer Raids that last the test of time; Firelands was amazing, ICC is an all time classic, Black Temple, Hellfire C is really cool.

I guess come the next expansion, will you be looking to run any of these Legion Raids for fun ? I won't, except for the DK Tier 19 Mythic set, other than that, these Legion Raids so far, just seem ok, nothing amazing or super cool.

I like Raids like Firelands, that when you enter, you have a wide variety to chose from where ya want to go. Your not pigeon hold into specific area or on rails where to go. I like Firelands being open. Would love to see more like that, and less like the crappy SoO MoP garbage.

grpahicaly nice but in general "meh" - but my guess is i simily have raided for to many years for it to be still amazing experience.

- - - Updated - - -

O

So if 80% do not Raid, what do they do in this game ?

mythic +
PVP
WQ
pet dailies
levleing alts
twinking toon
famring old stuff for transmog

and many many others.

raiding has never been and neer will be big chunk of game for players - it was always mainly wasted resources that could have been allocated much better and retain much more players.

[Deleted]

I am in a casual guild, we mostly just clear HC content.

EN: I didnt like this one. Actually our whole guild didnt enjoy this, after clearing it in hc, we mostly stick to M+, since it was more fun.

ToV: Meh, we just did it once and sticked to M+ again.

NH: I am actually really enjoying this one again. I have been playing since WotLK and NH is in my top raids list, the looks and boss mechanics.
We are raiding this one way more and only doing M+ for weekly chest now.

[Kuruption]

EN: Bosses were cool, but too easy.

ToV: I liked it. I hated that it was poorly scaled to smaller groups.

NH: Enjoying this raid still. Can't complain.

[ItachiZaku]

raiding has never been and neer will be big chunk of game for players - it was always mainly wasted resources that could have been allocated much better and retain much more players.

I do LFR, which doesn't count for a lot of or most raiders, but it does to me and at this point I feel I've won the game until the next raid. I only started raiding when in BC I was online when they were forming, asked and I was like... sure, i guess? Very quickly was top damage/dps and quickly grew to hate having this extra "job" when I just wanted to have some fun. It wasn't really fun wiping on the same raid boss for 45 minutes.

Every raid this expansion sort of feels like a minor zone raid, not an expansion raid.

[Zorachus]

We will ever see another Firelands type of Raid ? That is an all time classic to me. Just walking into that huge land, super huge wide open area, allowing you to choose several different bosses to start off with. Not stuck on a rail forced to go in one path, but you could decide yourself where to go with 3 of the first bosses.

[Deleted]

I'm one of the players who don't really raid anymore( at least not on a fixed schedule) because of other commitments. So i do M+ with friends and guildies and occasional pugs in the weekend.

[Deleted]

I think new raids has some smart mechanics. Very playable and not so easy.