Best opener with Mantle of the Master Assassin + Draught of Souls as Assassination?

[Deleted]

As the title suggests I'm after advice on the best opener to do as Assassination with Mantle of the Master Assassin and Draught of souls. Is Nightstalker or Subterfuge better with this equipment? Doing well on DPS at the moment but feel I could do better. I use agonizing poison build, thank you in advance.

[Rafzor]

I had been wondering about the same thing, and after testing on training dummies for around 95s stints, but as mostly obvious the biggest damage swing are caused by poison bomb procs followed then by BotA procs.
Also because of Vanish not being on GCD I split my opener macro to two seperate macros so while mashing it I don't insta vanish after casting a spell to then sit there waiting for the GCD to come around to be able to cast the next spell, so instead after the spell I wait for the GCD and then mash the second macro to avoid it, might be a small thing, but also alongisde autoattack damage might mean a poison application on boss from autoattacks leading also to more Kingsbane damage.

Starting macro 1:
/castsequence reset=30 Garrote, Berserking, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate, Vendetta, Envenom
Starting macro 2:
/castsequence reset=30 Vanish, Kingsbane, Mutilate, Envenom, Garrote, Mutilate, Draught of Souls, Envenom

[Akachan]

You want to use subterfuge. With the mantle, the crit buff lasts for 9 seconds instead of 6 after every vanish. The following is the opener I use:

From stealth: garrote, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, kingsbane, envenom. At this point you should have close to 0 energy and 0 cp. This is when we pop vendetta/vanish. Now mutilate, garrote, envenom, mutilate, envenom, pop drought.

This opener does a few things. It pandemics your garrote, and there is virtualy no energy/cp wasteage. Furthermore, delaying kingsbane allows it to line up with the second half of the opener when you have 9 seconds of crit buff going. This along with 100% chance to crit with drought results in some pretty impressive numbers, up to and including the neighborhood of 2M+, depending on poison bomb procs.

[jtstormrage]

With the mantle, the crit buff lasts for 9 seconds instead of 6 after every vanish.

I am at work but if this is correct it is the most amazing information. I feel like a complete newb for not knowing this. will be testing at home

[Finear]

I am at work but if this is correct it is the most amazing information. I feel like a complete newb for not knowing this. will be testing at home

it does last 9s

[Akachan]

What happens is that when we use vanish, we gain a 3 second vanish buff. And the crit buff timer doesnt start until the vanish buff ends, effectively giving us a 9 second crit window.

[Bart76]

What happens is that when we use vanish, we gain a 3 second vanish buff. And the crit buff timer doesnt start until the vanish buff ends, effectively giving us a 9 second crit window.

I am not sure 3seconds crit (basically 2 GDC) make up for 50% increased dmg of our vendetta/vanish rupture.

[Akachan]

I thought the same thing, but after extensive testing, I find subterfuge beats out nightstalker almost every time.

[Deleted]

I am not sure 3seconds crit (basically 2 GDC) make up for 50% increased dmg of our vendetta/vanish rupture.

subterfuge also grants u 125% more garrote dmg not only the 3 extra secs

[Deleted]

From stealth: garrote, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, kingsbane, envenom. At this point you should have close to 0 energy and 0 cp. This is when we pop vendetta/vanish. Now mutilate, garrote, envenom, mutilate, envenom, pop drought.

I don't have DoS yet but got Shoulders yesterday (using Shoulders, Wrist atm) but I assume I can use the same Opener too? Or does it change with not having DoS?

[Sotsu]

Starting macro 1:
/castsequence reset=30 Garrote, Berserking, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate, Vendetta, Envenom
Starting macro 2:
/castsequence reset=30 Vanish, Kingsbane, Mutilate, Envenom, Garrote, Mutilate, Draught of Souls, Envenom

From stealth: garrote, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, kingsbane, envenom. At this point you should have close to 0 energy and 0 cp. This is when we pop vendetta/vanish. Now mutilate, garrote, envenom, mutilate, envenom, pop drought.

I understand the importance of getting Kingsbane out ASAP, but both of the rotations pop Draught of Souls while Kingsbane is still active, meaning it does not increase in power for the 3 seconds we're channeling the trinket.

Would it not be better to put the trinket earlier in the rotation so that it will benefit from the 100% crit and not overlapping with Kingsbane, or are the few Kingsbane crits better than the increased damage we would gain from poison procs?

[Deleted]

Im curious if, with all this crit and dmg going on for 9 seconds - does this legendary outweigh most other legendarys? Such as Insignia, Dreadlords Deciet, Symbiote? Id like to see ur results or logs orso with this opener+DoS, seems very powerful. Next to that, the second Vanish + Vendetta could be absolutely killer.

[Akachan]

I don't have DoS yet but got Shoulders yesterday (using Shoulders, Wrist atm) but I assume I can use the same Opener too? Or does it change with not having DoS?

Yes instead of draught you'll just use mut/envenom spam

- - - Updated - - -

I understand the importance of getting Kingsbane out ASAP, but both of the rotations pop Draught of Souls while Kingsbane is still active, meaning it does not increase in power for the 3 seconds we're channeling the trinket.

Would it not be better to put the trinket earlier in the rotation so that it will benefit from the 100% crit and not overlapping with Kingsbane, or are the few Kingsbane crits better than the increased damage we would gain from poison procs?

If you do it out of sequence you risk overcapping on energy and/or combo points. Also no matter when you pop draught you will still lose 2 gcds. So therefore I think it's more beneficial to have all the buffs/debuffs going before you enter that period of inactivity. When you come out of it you'll still have a few seconds of kingsbane left so you wont lose out on too much damage.

[Deleted]

I saw this Gif on reddit, showing that DoS doesnt break stealth while using it. Maybe if you put it a the beginning of the rotation u are able to extend the 100% crit buff even longer and get more abilitys into that timeframe.

GIF from reddit

Since DoS doesnt count as your own damage and therefore isnt buffed by Vendetta and stuff it might be useful like this.

[Rafzor]

I understand the importance of getting Kingsbane out ASAP, but both of the rotations pop Draught of Souls while Kingsbane is still active, meaning it does not increase in power for the 3 seconds we're channeling the trinket.

Would it not be better to put the trinket earlier in the rotation so that it will benefit from the 100% crit and not overlapping with Kingsbane, or are the few Kingsbane crits better than the increased damage we would gain from poison procs?

The trinket + Envenom following are both still within the Shoulders critbuff window, you also keep autoattacking while using the trinket, so you don't really loose anything, just get to use Kingsbane and have it get critical hits in.
Here you can see me using the macroes on Chronomatic Anomaly Mythic kill:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...82&end=2127280

I saw this Gif on reddit, showing that DoS doesnt break stealth while using it. Maybe if you put it a the beginning of the rotation u are able to extend the 100% crit buff even longer and get more abilitys into that timeframe.

GIF from reddit

Since DoS doesnt count as your own damage and therefore isnt buffed by Vendetta and stuff it might be useful like this.

DoS does get buffed by your Agonizing Poison though, so your missing damage by using it in stealth on pull (around 2,2mil less for me per use with a 880 DoS). You also have no dots ticking while doing it so more damage loss and wasting energy by not using it as well. Also with no dots ticking you missing potential Old War procs as well.

And with Vanish you have the 3 second period which will get you out of stealth if you do attack during it even if you stop attacking before the buff ends. So you could not attack at and use trinket, but same result as attacking all the time and getting use of the 3 second Vanish buff, so your missing autoattacks and poison refresh (more Kingsbane damage) if you just sit there not hitting anything.

But I guess wouldn't have hurt to include in the original post that I'm running Subterfuge for the 3+6 second crit buff on Vanish.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought the same thing, but after extensive testing, I find subterfuge beats out nightstalker almost every time.

It isn't just that the damage between the talents is not so far off from eachother, but using the Garrote in the Vanish feels way better as well rather than a 5 point Rupture, which could have been an Envenom. Not to forget the 3 extra seconds of crit buff Vanish provides only with Subterfuge as well.

[Sotsu]

you also keep autoattacking while using the trinket

I just derped so hard. When I read the tooltip, I thought AA was disabled along with abilities and movement /facepalm. Time to correct my rotation.

[rezilve]

New to using the shoulders, how do you guys use your subsequent vanishes after the nice, scripted opener? Pop KB+envenom+vendetta before vanish and get maximum muta->envenoms off? Or it's important to weave in a garotte with subterfuge?

[Deleted]

This feedback is great! thank you guys so much.

[Houselol]

Credit to Anare from the Rogue discord for giving me a fuck ton of help with this subject. He gave me this picture as the single best tried and true opener for DoS+Mantle. Replace the last Mutilate with Draught.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...tle_Opener.png

[Deleted]

Credit to Anare from the Rogue discord for giving me a fuck ton of help with this subject. He gave me this picture as the single best tried and true opener for DoS+Mantle.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...tle_Opener.png

This is not "THE SINGLE BEST TRIED AND MALARKEY" anything, it´s a suggestion, nothing more.