Divine Hammer vs Blade of Wrath Talents

[Deleted]

Good Morning

Hello guys, Im plaing Retri Pala for years and in all this years i always spend time for search and search what is the BIS, talents, rotation, etc for me in all expansions because i always want be the best dps..)
Anyway, now for first time im little confuse because this 2 talents Divine Hammer or Blade of Wrath. I always play with Blade of Wrath because the fast HP generation and more TV you can done and im doing good dps. Yesterday i was in NH normal with pugs (for Ap farm) and there was anouther retri paladin there with 897ilv (im 905ilv) and his weapon was on lv 43 (mine=49) and he was using Divine Hammer and you knwo what? he was going same dps as me and bosss like Botanica or SpellBlase he did more them me. I know is Aoe Bosses and Divine Hammer its better for AOE situations, but he did 795kdps on Krosus and i did 823k.....so the diference not so high and i got more gear/ArtifactKnowleg.

So my question is if someone here alredy tested with simulators or any outher source to tell me if, right know, which is better to use??Divine Hammer or Blade of Wrath?

Thanks

[Soluna]

What legendaries did he use? What are your legendaries? And also, maybe you should provide logs of the fight, or take a look at the recount to see what abilities of his did what % of his dps.

This honestly looks like he is just a better retri paladin and knows how to use his rotation better.

[Rumblemintz]

Divine Hammer is best in all situations. If you look at logs divine hammer is chosen for all fights in NH even single target.

warcraftlogs com/statistics/11#class=Paladin&spec=Retribution&combatantinfo=Talents

[Deleted]

I use Divine Hammer for all fights, the new traits increasing the damage as well as the 4th point in the old trait help Divine Hammer much more than BoW. The output of Divine Hammer is weighted more towards its own DPS rather than the HP it gives, so if you have those traits Divine Hammer gets better than BoW even on single target. Even before Divine Hammer was almost always better since there's hardly any pure single target fights in NH.

[Lucetia]

I use Divine Hammer for all fights, the new traits increasing the damage as well as the 4th point in the old trait help Divine Hammer much more than BoW. The output of Divine Hammer is weighted more towards its own DPS rather than the HP it gives, so if you have those traits Divine Hammer gets better than BoW even on single target.

I want to like Divine Hammer, I really do. But for some reason to me it feels really clunky compared to BoW. Maybe it's because Divine Hammer you are confined to being near the target whereas BoW you have some wiggle room. That or maybe because I'm too lazy to swap talents and like having the extra range when farming old raids and stuff.

[Deleted]

derpderpderp

[Zoe nom]

Just pick the one you like.

[Wutangrza]

DH is pretty much always better, which means you should run TFoJ, especially if you have the tier 4 piece.

The amount of time you have to hit two targets for DH to beat out BoW is extremely small, and it comes very close to BoW even in pure ST.

[OrXter]

Divine hammer all the way buddy

[Reith]

Divine Hammer is best in all situations. If you look at logs divine hammer is chosen for all fights in NH even single target.

warcraftlogs com/statistics/11#class=Paladin&spec=Retribution&combatantinfo=Talents

Divine Hammer is not "best in all situations" lol. Saying that is just silly. It's better for most situations, which most situations right now are not pure single target.

[Wutangrza]

There aren't any ST fights in M NH. It's the best talent for every fight in there.

If you're talking heroic who cares? BoW is such a minuscule DPS increase over DH that it's not even worth swapping on the one or two fights in H NH where BoW might be slightly better.

I was rank 7 in NA for heroic ret last week on warcraftlogs running DH every fight, so it's not like you're gimping yourself all that much.

[Deleted]

Divine Hammer is not "best in all situations" lol. Saying that is just silly. It's better for most situations, which most situations right now are not pure single target.

In other words, almost all situations.

The only time I swapped it in the last few months was for the ret challenge, as to avoid accidentally AoEing my own CC down.

[Shavier]

Blade of Wrath problem is that is not Holy dmg while Divine Hammer is, so even in single target DH is doing more than BoW without or minimum procs. I have Cloak Legendary so I should use BoW on ST fights but I'm not cuz every single time when I compare logs, when I have DH I do slightly more. I think t20 2p will make BoW much better but if we will mix t19 2p and t20 4p dropping cloak in the process then idk. They should leave BoW as Holy dmg like it was before 7.1 then it would be no debate which is better cuz it would be clear as day, BoW single and DH aoe.

[Reith]

Blade of Wrath problem is that is not Holy dmg while Divine Hammer is, so even in single target DH is doing more than BoW without or minimum procs. I have Cloak Legendary so I should use BoW on ST fights but I'm not cuz every single time when I compare logs, when I have DH I do slightly more. I think t20 2p will make BoW much better but if we will mix t19 2p and t20 4p dropping cloak in the process then idk. They should leave BoW as Holy dmg like it was before 7.1 then it would be no debate which is better cuz it would be clear as day, BoW single and DH aoe.

Your post's problem is that Blade of Wrath generates more HP, so in single target, DH will not be doing more damage than BoW because you'll be doing more TVs with BoW. This is assuming purely single target, which in Nighthold consists of Trilliax non-mythic and Krosus non-mythic if everyone does their job soaking pitches. I hear that Tomb has more single target fights than Nighthold does, but we'll see. T20 2P leads me to believe this is the case because 2P helps BoW more than DH. Ret talent tree needs some work anyway tbh but that's a whole 'nother topic.

[Deleted]

Yup, so as some people said the main difference is that DH does holy damage. This means that the damage does not get reduced by the boss' armor, while blade of wrath's is. Though as the poster above says, it compensates by allowing more finishers. It's also worth noting that BoW is burstier, in situations where you need single target burst, while DH does it's damage over about 9-10 seconds.

From the experiments i've made, i do believe BoW ends up beeing better DPS overall (not by itself, but the damage you deal) on ST fights. So, if your raid needs more single target for an enrage timer and cleave isn't an issue, it's a way you can help your group. With that said, it's not a huge difference.

[Nition]

Your post's problem is that Blade of Wrath generates more HP, so in single target, DH will not be doing more damage than BoW because you'll be doing more TVs with BoW. This is assuming purely single target, which in Nighthold consists of Trilliax non-mythic and Krosus non-mythic if everyone does their job soaking pitches. I hear that Tomb has more single target fights than Nighthold does, but we'll see. T20 2P leads me to believe this is the case because 2P helps BoW more than DH. Ret talent tree needs some work anyway tbh but that's a whole 'nother topic.

I still find myself GCD locked even when running DH. When I used BoW I find that crusader strike is off cd for longer periods of time therefore wasting its HP generating potential.

Once you have the traits, DH is by far better, even on single target unless you're at lower gear levels. The only time you should really be using BoW when at higher gear is pvp/something where you don't want to be accidentally aoe'ing like the challenge mode.

[Lucetia]

I still find myself GCD locked even when running DH. When I used BoW I find that crusader strike is off cd for longer periods of time therefore wasting its HP generating potential.

I'm at 894 with about 27-30% haste depending on what I use and even with DH I don't get GCD capped and find myself hating to wait for DH to come off too. With BoW resetting I'm constantly hitting it and other buttons.

Once you have the traits, DH is by far better, even on single target unless you're at lower gear levels. The only time you should really be using BoW when at higher gear is pvp/something where you don't want to be accidentally aoe'ing like the challenge mode.[/QUOTE]

[Reith]

I still find myself GCD locked even when running DH. When I used BoW I find that crusader strike is off cd for longer periods of time therefore wasting its HP generating potential.

If you're GCD locked 100% of the time, then you're not doing your inputs fast enough. Even at your gear level you'll probably have around 5% waiting time on average with BoW. I have 7%. It's a bit more waiting time with Divine Hammer on average.

Once you have the traits, DH is by far better, even on single target unless you're at lower gear levels. The only time you should really be using BoW when at higher gear is pvp/something where you don't want to be accidentally aoe'ing like the challenge mode.

I wasn't aware 898 is a lower gear level lol have you even simmed BoW properly for your character? It's not much of a gain on a single target, but it's a gain. It also swings higher more often than DH, so if you get reasonably lucky, you'll go even higher.

[Nition]

If you're GCD locked 100% of the time, then you're not doing your inputs fast enough. Even at your gear level you'll probably have around 5% waiting time on average with BoW. I have 7%. It's a bit more waiting time with Divine Hammer on average.


I wasn't aware 898 is a lower gear level lol have you even simmed BoW properly for your character? It's not much of a gain on a single target, but it's a gain. It also swings higher more often than DH, so if you get reasonably lucky, you'll go even higher.

Erm yes 898 is pretty damn low haha. Of course I'm not locked 100% of the time, but I'm finding that I only get a free "waiting" global once every 30 seconds or so. And considering I'm getting orange parses on most of my log attempts for heroic and mythic I'm gonna go ahead and assume I'm not doing something totally wrong

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As long as you're building as much as you can without overcapping, and not immediately spending when you hit 3 HP you'll find that you're never waiting around.

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I'm at 894 with about 27-30% haste depending on what I use and even with DH I don't get GCD capped and find myself hating to wait for DH to come off too. With BoW resetting I'm constantly hitting it and other buttons.

Once you have the traits, DH is by far better, even on single target unless you're at lower gear levels. The only time you should really be using BoW when at higher gear is pvp/something where you don't want to be accidentally aoe'ing like the challenge mode.

[/QUOTE]

And that's fine from a "gameplay feel" perspective. But if you wanna push numbers you're kind of forced into DH. Personally I prefer DH, but that's just me.

[Deleted]

All these answers sometimes.
Feels like when asking for directions someone and he gets this weird look and says "go west for a couple of miles". Basically I understand that he is quite unsure or w/e and tbh I am led into asking again.
That being said by trial and error there are various reasons behind DH being picked by ret pallies in this tier and one can safely assume they get the best results with it or at least the difference is below 3% so it doesn't really matter.
By "lower gear" I understand that although secondaries may not differ dramatically , DH scales better with strength . Am I right ?

Nice anecdotal info